Frank
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Posts posted by Frank
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The cropp boat had a near sister in Mangonui (near Butlers point) covered in guano, last seen in Opua, the hobson bay one I have only seen towed around since electrification!!
Shocking ! .............sorry , couldn't resist
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The money we save by being on a pile mooring pays for all the toys on the boat. Would be 6k to go marina so we base our yearly budget on 6k which pays insurance, club membership, new sail every year plus the usual maintanance. Works well for us
All these comments, its good to see people enjoying plain old mucking about in boats without exorbitant costs.
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$25 pw panmure, + club membership,cheap haulout wharf water and as we have to go past halfmoon bay no problem for fuel
Yup, Panmure works !
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love my swing mooring so easy for solo on and off,
I have owned keeler's for 30 years, always on a swing mooring, no problem at all. When we are loading stores for a cruise we use the public Jetty at PH. It would cost me 6K per annum to keep it on a ,marina. Thats a lot of cold hard after-tax dollars, might be different if you were in a syndicate.
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I saw that, its an incredible amount of boat for the money but berthage costs ? and a 13.5 ft draft in Auckland !
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I was thinking thats the most un-Farr like 'Farr' I've ever seen...........
I agree, it does not look anything like a Farr .
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Or . . . depends on whether you're a sailor . . . or not!
In my early sailing/racing days the iron headsail was an absolute last resort, I was "Hardcore".
Once I got married and started a family the sailing became more cruising orientated and the iron headsail got more use, it was inevitable, but the important thing was we enjoyed it as a family. Today the boys are competent handling a yacht and take the boat out on their own. I enjoy a good sail/cruise more than ever but I certainly don't feel guilty about using the iron headsail
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ha ha - agreed Mattm.
Frank - I thought your arguement' "The old rule of thumb for the engine in yachts was 2HP per Ton, now its more like 4HP per ton. So there are a significant number of older boats that are under-powered." was pretty funny. It doesn't tell me that older boats are under powered, just that newer boats are saiLed less!
Depends on if you are a cruiser or a racer
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You got a good boat there, and a 100K cheaper than what you would have paid 5 yrs ago.
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For most people 90% of their time on-board is spent at anchor. Those who go offshore soon find that ocean cruising speed averages out to around 4.5 to 5 knots, yes there are faster
boats and slower boats, those who motor in the light and those who wait for the breeze to fill in. Time at sea to Tonga average 10 days, Fiji 9 days, New Caledonia, Vanuatu respectively
8 days and 11 days. Once you are there (Fiji) you are island hoping and reef searching with reasonably long periods of idleness, swimming, socialising etc. So you need a safe boat for the
ocean passage , but and equally importantly a live-able boat once you are there. There are a plethora of suitable yachts on the NZ market that will give all of the above without having to
buy a "new" toy. Also what doesn't seem to be taken into account is the enjoyment of tinkering and tweaking that for some guys is as important, and sometimes more important than
actually going sailing. Your new (to you, used charter boat) plastic fantastic doesn't allow this. What it does allow is for someone to fix/service the refrigeration, failed anchor winch,
watermaker, electronics, motor etc. Having seen this played out last year between NZ and Fiji (return). Broken gooseneck, several failures of windlass circuits, failure of refrigeration
compressor, and misdiagnosis meant it took 3 (I think) new compressors fitted and subsequently failed before the fault was eventually found elsewhere in the system, suspect keel bolts,
(weeping rust at the keel / hull interface, plus various other breakages, failures. That the cruise was eventually successfuly completed says much about the people sailing the boat ++++
and so much more about the bargain? that they bought - - - - .
I second Chris's comment above.
One fairly experienced offshore sailor I spoke to said that all else being equal the faster more modern boat would cut a day off the passage.time to Fiji , handy I suppose but is that really a big deal ?
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Friends My take on this Subject.
No body.
NZ Fibre glass boats 30 years old when manufactured used excess resin content compared with today. The problem with polyester fibre glass made boats from that era, I know was thought to only have a life span of 30 years. The reason being that Polyester fibre glass keep on curing until brittle and crumbles. They might have solved the problem with the new resins. A lot, perhaps not all used excess harder for quick fast hardening. I would not buy that age vessel unless as a live aboard at a marina to beat house prices. A 50 footer multihull would be a cheap house probably under a $100,000, but would not have arising value like a house. But you would not have a mortgage, interest and mortgage renewal problem. Marina fees are cheaper than house rentals as well with no electricity bills.
Wooden boats glues 1970 1980 eras life span was 30 years. So those boats are being held together with marginal strength and need re gluing and the like. Boats that where a classic whispers on Wellington had to re glue. Costs a fortune.
Explained to me by a naval architect. A new jigsaw puzzle all holds together when new. Made numerous times after breaking from new. Try lifting the puzzle and holding the puzzle - you can't. Large pieces separate.
Glue life spans now not sure.
NZ prices are ridiculous - like the charter industry. Australia approx half the price and the winter prices is about 70% cheaper than NZ charter prices.
You can fly return air fares ,charter twice as long more than charter a vacation NZ.
An overseas boat the same applies plus the costs on sailing her, import duty, insurance ocean going terms costs, crewing problems, especially if I'm the crew member or any other educated crew member re repatriation should you have a disagreement, liability when they are ashore for all costs, fines, law infringement. etc. If the port you enter has a casino, you better make sure they [ the crew members ] are not compulsive gamblers. Any loses they can't make good, the captain is liable. Read the fine print when entering port you sign. How would you like to be told you can't leave port until your crew members casino's $300,000 is paid and if you can't pay then you forfeit your boat plus.
or Your crew member got drunk and booked a pro $600 and can/t pay.
OC
I looked at importing, by the time you factor in all the costs it just does not stack up.
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Actually Rats, IMO some of them are. Some have the new engines, repaints and new sails.... But I'm biased towards Farrs!!
The ones that don't have the maint done and good gear are NOT worth those prices at all...
Having been active recently in looking for a bigger boat I have looked at a lot of vessels around 38 to 40ft.
The problem is there is a lot of "Tired" stock out there where the maintenance and upgrades have not been done.
Also when you place a 30 year old NZ production boat alongside say a bene or Bavaria the interiors of the NZ boats just look very basic, even dare I say it crude eg exposed fibreglass, front runner or similar everywhere, exposed bolt heads, etc.
its a no brainer that the import is better value for money. The old rule of thumb for the engine in yachts was 2HP per Ton, now its more like 4HP per ton. So there are a significant number of older boats that are under-powered. repowering is eye wateringly expensive so you may have to factor that in to your "bargain"
I agree with Matt, search for the rare boat that has had money lavished on it. You will pay top dollar but it is way cheaper in the long run than the project boat.
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And a 30 year old Farr 1220 is worth 175-200K!!!
the prices of some local boats are no longer realistic especially when the first thing you will need to do is put a new engine in them and second upgrade the sails.There are some great deals offshore even when factoring getting them here and duty, GST. Now where was that lotto ticket.....
A very tidy 1220 called Placido was listed at 120K, it sold a few weeks back. Others are listed around 140 to 150K but they are not moving at all. Anecdotally I heard some of them have issues, I think the owners have not adjusted to market reality.
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So I checked out the Whiting 39, she is an ex charter boat and is a bit of a project down below.
Basically good bones and the work is nothing anyone with good DIY skills and could not fix, but quite a lot of time required .
The woodwork side of things should not cost much in terms of materials but the plumbing/wiring/sytems etc could add up.
The motor is near new and at 55HP should be ample, squabs all need replacing.
Rig looks OK but would need a thorough scrub through, not sure about the sails.
Would be good value at the right price, I dont have the time for the work.
Yes boats have come down in price quite a bit in perhaps the last three or four years, I'm not sure why. By way of example It didn't seem that long ago when Farr 1220's were around 220K , a very tidy one sold recently for 120K, lots of stuff that does not seem to be moving, but then I have seen quite a few boats that did not "present well" shall we say.
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Good on you ! epic adventure awaits, "Amiri"
is Maori for Eastwind which might be useful unless you are returning via the red sea
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Saw this on Trademe,
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-1238322484.htm
I'm looking for something a bit bigger than my Carpenter 29 for coastal and Hauraki Gulf sailing and then in about 2 years a trip or two Fiji/Tonga etc. I'm Guessing she is of relatively conservative construction, ie stout and so while lacking the offshore gear the design has good bones.
Anyone know much about them or perhaps have sailed on one. Of note is that the draft is 1.64 M which seems shallow for a boat of this length however it has been 2nd checked confirmed by the broker.
Thanks in advance.
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Be aware there is a push on to get marinas off leases and other similar such contracts. The powers that be want everyone renting.
There are less and less marina operators these days with many places now either monopolies or like Auckland pretty much a duopoly. They have all also realised they have huge power if they work together to remove our options. Hence the recent raft of cost increases and dumbarse regulations.
I think you are on the money there, PH was sold to Empire Capital Group in 2015 they are developers and I understand they may own more than one Marina. PH has benefitted from the Marina Village development and the rapidly expanding surrounding suburbs, the Ferry service helps too. Building new marinas or expanding existing ones is nigh on impossible with the RMA which in its infancy killed plans to expand PH, dry stack here we come.
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G h is the dearest in the country
Anecdotally I have heard that berths at some Marinas have shot up in value. I was looking at a 12m boat at GH recently . The broker said the owner was keen to move it so he could sell the berth which had suddenly increased in value to 120K. Also I heard that PH charges had gone up quite a bit.
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Some of the older Bavarias were not great sailers, if your serious about that one, whose the designer on that model?
Designer was J and J Design , never heard of them.
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Some of the older Bavarias were not great sailers, if your serious about that one, whose the designer on that model?
I know what you mean,this one was never in charter, it has a deepish bulb keel and a fairly decent rig/sailplan, it looks like it would go OK. Not sure if its cast iron or lead in the keel though. In anycase I'm looking at something else for now.
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UPDATE: I recently viewed a Bavaria 38 of 2000 vintage, I had a good look in the bilge area.
I noticed the moulded transverse floors were much deeper in section than the Beneteau of similar length and vintage. The overall Top Hat (TH) section of the former just struck me as substantially bigger all round. Another surprise was that the "Egg Crate" structural grid did not seem to be continuous between the floors allowing for the lower flanges of the TH sections to be "tabbed" onto the hull . I'm not sure if this is factory standard or not, but If so is then it strikes me as being stronger, more easily repaired and more damage tolerant than the Beneteau, granted one should not make too much of a judgement on only two boats.
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Reading that report on the link posted by Mark MT, I don't think modern systems would have made a difference.It was expanding as it moved and formed very quickly.
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Seems the fleet was in touch with each other. Did the boats that first noted a dramatic barometric drop pass it on? Not that I'm saying it would have been different but I get the feeling from the pangolin link that some might have been slow to respond. Seems we also know more know about how the "bombs" develop.
Good Points there.
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Interesting question, def not not dumb. I'm interested in the answer (I'm not qualified to answer it).
Do you know what forecasts and Comms they had in 94?
I'm guessing only isobar charts and SSB's?
Some may have had weather faxes?
I'm thinking the modern Comms in combination with modern forecasts would make a notable difference.
I think weatherfax providing isobar charts and possibly grib files but I'm not sure of the update frequency.
Pocket Offshore Cruisers
in MarineTalk
Posted
Dreaming of going offshore in 2019 the (realistic) dreamboat is at least 44 ft , that not going to happen (44ft ) so I thought I would canvas anecdotes about small boats (under 31 ft LOA) that have done the offshore thing.
I'm suggesting perhaps that it be limited it to "Mere Mortals" (MM's) in NZ boats and not legends like David Lewis or Andrew Fagan etc. so here goes a few I know of or have heard of.
Marauder 28 that did Auckland Mooloolaba a few years back
A Carpenter 29 that sailed AKL to New Caledonia 2 or 3 yrs back
A Spencer 32 (ply) that went to Tonga back in the 70's (OK 1 ft too big but still plywood)
An Alan Wright Haani 28 (plywood forerunner of the Nova 28) that sailed to the islands) described as "2 weeks in a washing machine"
And a chap from the Thames sailing club who soloed a 20 ft trailer sailer to the Three Kings twice !
Oh and that fellow who sailed a Wharram Tiki across the Tasman recently.
It would be great to hear from folks who have crewed or skippered on such boats and their insights.