syohana
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Posts posted by syohana
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So the water filter/strainer is missing altogether. That's not better!
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[quote] 2 hours ago, waikiore said:
I hope that is not a straight 'T' upstream of the water pump -or you run the very real risk of the raw water pump sucking air instead of water....
I noticed that too and wondered what it was. Looked like a cockpit drain or something. Surely thats going to suck air into the system causing overheating.
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Agreed. And the impeller appears to be on the wrong side of the water filter. The filter is supposed to protect the impeller but the impeller is connected directly to the seacock and what looks like a filter is on the outlet of the impeller.
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Hey Axel, nothing wrong with boatpaint.co.nz, they sell genuine Hempel paint which is a good brand. They don't have fancy premises or advertising so you pay less. If you buy smaller amounts they buy big cans of genuine Hempel paint and decant them into unbranded small cans so you pay something closer to wholesale prices but you don't get a pretty logo or instructions on the can. Google has the instructions
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1 hour ago, Tigermoth said:
The 'drop in' electric alternative sounds good (I'd love the idea of quietly motoring around on a still day) but my investigation was that it might be very expensive with the cost of the battery etc. I'd need solar panels as on a pile mooring. Also not sure how it would work with an old-fashioned stuffing box and potential for water in the bilge... @syohana - can you send me a link to more info? I was thinking if I did electric I would seal everything up (no holes in the hull...) and put a pod drive on the bottom.
Yes, a pod drive and seal everything up is the best solution and we can supply those too but.... A pod is two to four times more expensive for a bit less power. If you didn't already have a prop and shaft then a pod is certainly best but you can save a fortune by using what you've got. Stuffing box is fine as long as you remember to stuff it. Our oldest electric boat has one (35 years on electric power and still going strong). She goes out on hire every day, nothing wrong with a good old fashioned shaft drive but a pod is simpler, slightly more efficient and even quieter if it's a direct drive model.
If you're not racing, don't mind the weight and don't need huge range then old fashioned lead acid batteries are fine, don't cost much. Use them as ballast. Used ones come up once in a while, can save a lot of money if you know their history (ex cellphone mast or data centre backup batteries are a great option, kept like new, quality brands and replaced every few years).
You can see more about the 5kw inboard motors on electricboat.co.nz under "shop" then "inboard motors".
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We have some nice 5kw (replaces a 10hp diesel) electric motors going cheap ($3000) which would drop in to replace your existing diesel. Definitely the best option if you keep it in a marina where you can plug it in. On a mooring it depends how often you use it but solar panels can easily provide enough power unless you use it on consecutive cloudy days.
An outboard will get dunked under water and/or the prop will come out of the water in big waves on a lee shore, just when you really need it to perform. Inboard of any kind is much, much better.
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Juice panels are good quality and the price reflects that. Most so-called "flexible" panels are rubbish. Be aware that NO flexi panel is actually flexible. They need to be fixed to a hard, flat surface which can have a slight curve to it and must have continuous support underneath. The solar cells within the panel are not flexible, they are very brittle and any uneven pressure or vibration can crack them. for example, if you stick them down with sealant and there's a bubble in the sealant then when someone steps on the bubble, the solar cell will crack.
As 2flit said, do not install PET faced panels, the plastic surface will degrade and start to become yellow in only one season of NZ UV levels. ETFE is the only option with a moderately good lifespan. Even the very best ETFE panels have a design life of only about 5 years, compared to glass panels which almost always last in excess of 20-30 years.
Unless you have a really really really good reason why you must have "flexible" panels then it's best to deal with the weight and appearance of glass panels because they produce more power, last many times longer and cost just a fraction of what the flexible panels do. There are some nice looking frameless double faced glass panels available but standard alloy framed ones can't beaten on price.
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We do need to go out of the entrance first so diamond A is useful. I was planning to depart with the ebb but having the diamond data means I can be a bit more precise about that.
Good advice for brett too, thanks. Long time since I've been up this way. This boat has outboards and likes to pitch, I'll go wide to avoid dunking them under a wave!
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23 hours ago, ex Elly said:
Tidal diamond B is shown on NZ 5219 Approaches to Marsden Point.
Download here: https://www.linz.govt.nz/sea/charts/paper-charts/nz5219
Can reach over 3 knots! 😲
Wow, 3 knots is definitely worth knowing about.
Great info everyone and that's a huge help in passing our passage. Looks like the wind will change by Wednesday and we can get on the way.
It's a real nuisance that they crop the data take for the diamonds off the digital charts, special thanks to those who posted it for both Brett and bream, just what I needed! Next time I'll remember to bring my paper charts!
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Does anyone know how long before/ after high tide the stream turns north/south at cape brett, and spring/neap speed of the current? And bream head too?
I can't seem to find this info anywhere online and I don't have an almanac handy on the boat I'm on, didn't think to bring it with me from mine. Maybe the info isn't available because there isn't much current to worry about, but I'd like to check as I have to take a slow boat around the cape and would rather be there at the optimum time.
Normally I'd look for a diamond on the chart but only have digital charts on this boat, no paper (shameful I know), can anyone look if there is a diamond please?
Edit: we do have raster charts which show 0.5kn at Brett and 0.3 at bream, there is a diamond at bream but I can't see the data for it.
Thanks!
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10 hours ago, Island Time said:
Yeah, saw that, but its not really dense enough to be ideal to use in a rudder. Needs to be about 16lb/ft2 or 80kg/m2...
C
Did you call NZ fibreglass and ask? not everything is on their website. I expect if they can't supply it they will at least know who can.
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NZ Fibreglass sell it:
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Anyone thinking about cutting corners on a gas install should read this. Anyone else who ever uses propane on a boat should read it too:
http://www.boatmoves.com/LT_Story.htm
and watch this:
They used a tiny amount of gas for that explosion from a little camping cylinder from a portable stove. It could have been much worse!
NZ regs and awareness of propane risks are really lax compared to the UK. I've seen some really terrifying stuff here like gas bottles in the bilge!
Gas bottles and things like califonts must always be in a place where the gas will drain overboard if it leaks. Any gas appliance like a cooker mounted insode the boat must have a flame failsafe and a gas alarm at the lowest point below it. The trouble is those califonts go very rusty if you put them outside so you can't win. They really have absolutely no place on a boat one little fault and you're dead.
Having an install which pre-dates the safety regulations doesn't make it safe. I hate bureaucracy but this is one case where the rules are sensible and do save lives.
Diesel hydronic heaters together with a hot water tank are a good option but be warned they can be noisy, the installation can be a lot of work and they tend to be too powerful just for hot water - they cycle on and off unless there is plenty of load on them (just a hot water tank with a coil wont work, you need a few heaters too otherwise the circulating water will overheat and turn the heater off without dissipating much heat into the hot water cylinder. I guess you could circulate the shower water directly through the diesel heater and back into the cylinder instead of using the heating coil, that might work.
Diesel air heaters tend to create a problem with ducting the hot air through watertight bulkheads and across the bridge deck. On a cat you need the hot air ducted to the bottom of the hulls in every compartment so hydronic heating is usually best but hydronic heating can be heavy for a cat.
We have agonised over similar problems, at the end of the day the best solution will depend on the layout of your boat. Electric water heating can be an easy option if you carry a genset, have shore power or have more solar power than you need.
You can also look at an old fashioned diesel stove with a chimney, or even a woodburner and use a "wetback" coil of pipe inside the heater to heat water. Depends on whether you enjoy tinkering with the fire and have plenty of time to wait for it to get hot! Works if you have the heater on all the time anyway, not very useful if you want hot water in summer.
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On 4/10/2021 at 2:54 PM, Plato said:
I just want something strong enough to take us home should we be caught in a foul wind or tide. (That 450kg row could be rather demanding!)
This is exactly what a trolling motor isn't designed to do. People who are trolling for fish just want to move through the water at a low speed, they don't care if they are not moving over the ground or even going backwards with the tide against them.
A trolling motor is designed for trolling slowly, not as propulsion to get you somewhere. The propellers have a very low pitch designed to move the boat very slowly and not overload the very low powered electric motor. Consequently, if you try to go against the tide you'll not really get anywhere.
A trolling motor with the power and range that you need will be priced about the same as a real electric outboard which has the same power, but the trolling motor of the same power will be designed to move a bigger boat very slowly, not designed to propel a small boat fast enough to bash into wind and tide.
At the end of the day if you compare two motors of similar power then you don't get more for your money, you get something designed for a different purpose. Usually they are rather flimsy and not rugged or reliable enough as main propulsion - they are designed as an accessory to a main engine, not as propulsion you can rely on.
If you are only using it for a short distance on very sheltered water with no currents then a trolling motor can do the job and might be cheaper than a real electric outboard, just be aware that you get what you pay for and you might be buying another one every couple of years.
It's hard to find a real electric outboard less than 2hp equivalent (1kw) so if that's what you need then a trolling motor might suffice, but if you can afford it then just get a real electric outboard and don't use the maximum speed, then a small battery will go all days long.
Don't forget that the small electric outboards such as Torqeedo 1103 include a waterproof battery which accounts for half their value. The trolling motors generally don't include a battery and you'll need to build some sort of waterproof compartment to contain whatever battery you decide to use, which probably wasn't designed for the marine environment.
If the price of the Torqeedo 1103 puts you off then we are able to order in the Torqeedo 603 which is a derated version - looks identical but power is limited to 2hp instead of 3hp and it only has half the battery capacity. Saves you about $1000 if you don't need the 40km+ range of the 1103.
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We used Cook islands flag when we were doing commercial charter and passenger work. The big advantage is Cook islands accept the same commercial surveys as MaritimeNZ, whereas if you go with UK or Jersey flag then the commercial survey requirements are not compatible with MaritimeNZ and you'd need two different surveys by two different surveyors (NZ commercial and flag state commercial), with conflicting requirements!
Cook islands is very expensive though, lots of paperwork and a short renewal term, I would not recommend it unless you are commercial and operating in NZ waters.
When we stopped doing commercial work there's no requirement for a survey so we switched to Jersey. Found a surveyor who did the tonnage survey in the water for a very reasonable cost (Curly Hayter, probably retired now), just a matter of measuring the internal space, only took an hour or two. Very easy process registering there, it's cheap and it's valid for ten years so there's no more paperwork for a long while. For a local contact we used my sister in law's mother who lives in Jersey but they give you a list of randoms who you can pay to be your local contact.
Definitely recommend Jersey. Sounds like the UK is now adopting very similar rules to Jersey.
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Ex charter boat from Thailand. Not sure how she ended up in Marlborough. Story goes something like this... She broke loose from a mooring there and was grounded, rudders broken off and lost, serious damage to the hulls around the rudders, damage to prop shafts and supports. At least one engine has been under water and they were both already due for replacement before the wreck. She was dragged up the nearest beach and very roughly patched up enough to make her watertight, then dragged back into the sea, towed to the marina and hauled out. Then sat in yard for quite a few years untouched, repossessed eventually due to unpaid yard fees. She has been cleaned up for sale. She was in a very sorry state before pressure washing. Most of the gear has been stripped off and lost,stolen or sold. All the sails, anchor, chain, watermaker, propeller, cushions, beds, solar panels and even a toilet have disappeared. Speakers and deck fittings have randomly been removed leaving holes and rain water has got in. Core is squishy in places. Not for the faint hearted!
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10 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:
I'm no geek - I rely on family if it has to get to code. I'm ok at understanding system level and what the likely mechanical electrical and electronic requirements will be.
Sean (the developer of pypilot) is usually helpful and responsive unless he's out at sea so you'll be fine. Coding shouldn't be necessary but you might have to edit config files manually and use the linux command line (mostly just copying and pasting commands). There's enough documentation around to overcome most problems but it's not very organised, a combination of very rudimentary instructions with a lot of useful info in forum posts on the pypilot forum but it takes a while to hunt down an answer. Getting all the wifi and network connections set up was the tricky bit for us. The config tools didn't work well but if you edit the config file manually it tends to revert to the old settings after reboot so always back up your changes. Hopefully that's all fixed now, we've back been in the bay of islands for a year not using autopilot so I've not updated it.
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On 1/08/2021 at 6:38 PM, aardvarkash10 said:
It would be nice to work out an interface to the autopilot, but for this season it will just run as a stand-alone plotter.
Check out pypilot, the brain is a Raspberry Pi zero and it is developed by one of the core OpenCPN developers. He also builds the hardware (motor controller etc.) very cheaply to order if you don't fancy DIY. It has built in control from a custom OpenCPN plugin and it can be connected to your existing autopilot pump or motor. It should work very well with openplotter.
Keep your expensive proprietary autopilot as a spare or sell it before it becomes obsolete and buy 10 spare pypilots as back up!
The pypilot uses all cheap, mass produced components so they might be more susceptible to fail but you can carry as many spares as you like. With a proprietary autopilot, spare displays and other parts become unobtainable within a couple of years every time a new model comes out and keeping a complete spare system is prohibitively expensive.
We found pypilot a somewhat difficult to configure and a few teething problems, you need to be a bit technical but you clearly are.
Once it was set up properly it actually steered much better than the expensive old Cetrek pilot. It steered us all the way from the UK to NZ apart from one 6 hour sail where the config somehow got corrupted. My #1 tip is to back up the microSD card AFTER everything is set up just the way you like it. Even branded SD cards tend to corrupt themselves eventually but it's easy to swap in a spare.
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1 hour ago, Fogg said:
Ok, looks like the 1103C is the best option for me.
To save me shopping the world and getting a friend in US or Europe buying + sending to me what’s your best price for the unit itself + carry bag + protective cover all inc?
Or if you prefer to do via PM then drop me a note.
Cheers
Hi Fogg,
Unfortunately there are a lot of middle men in the Torqeedo supply chain. Despite the apparently high price we have much tighter margins on Torqeedo than the brands we can import direct from the manufacturer and distribute ourselves. Please email sales AT electricboat.co.nz and we'll see what is the best we can do for you. We'll certainly beat any other NZ price though.
Lithium batteries of that size require special and expensive shipping. Airfrieght is pretty much impossible. Then there's import duty, fumigation, GST, MPI costs on top and a ton of paperwork. I'm afraid importing it yourself is a big headache and won't save you any money once you add it all up.
Thanks!
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1 hour ago, 44forty said:
What’s the weight of the 2KW with the battery ?
The 2kw Torqeedo (5hp equivalent) motor is 15kg. The Combi is a bit heavier. You can use any suitable 24v battery.
Lead acid batteries are cheap but heavy. Any size available.
A Torqeedo 3.5kwh lithium battery is 25kg.
A 5kwh Juice lithium battery made in NZ is 53kg.
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7 hours ago, Deep Purple said:
I haven't written off the idea though and I'm sure I'll address it numerous times before January, but I need to be sure I can motor from Opua to Black Rocks and back against wind and tide with plenty spare. I need a mate to buy one so I can try it out.
We've got a Torqeedo Cruise 2kw you can try out on the water here in Kerikeri, also a few other electric boats. You can see the power consumption of the Cruise on the display. Run it at 1.1kw and you'll get an idea of the power of the Travel 1103c. You'll be surprised how little power you use as long as you keep a knot or two below hull speed.
Range depends on the shape and size of boat and factors like headwinds can make a big difference. Above all, you'll use way more power if you're in a hurry!
Please tell us a bit more about your boat and how you use it, then I'll take a guess at the battery capacity you need.
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6 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:
The solar would need to be huge. A 3kw motor vs a typical 150w roll-up solar panel means waiting 20 hours at full sun strength maximum efficiency to run the motor for less than an hour. Realistically, more like 4 days wait. In mid summer.
Which is not a reason not to change to electric - just a note of realism on the energy requirements.
Do you really need 3kw? that would be adequate for a 3 tonne displacement boat.
For the Cruise 2 and larger motors you use a separate 24v or 48v battery(s) inside the boat, then you can just use a regular solar panel and charger. Our 4m catamarans have a 320w solar panel and a 1.1kw motor. We don't need to plug them in unless we get multiple bookings on the same day or consecutive cloudy days.
Our 1.1 tonne English river launch has 640w of solar and we've never had to plug her in. With a 6m waterline she'll cruise at 5 knots on 1kw of power or 6 knots on 2kw. We limit her to about 750w for hire customers to make sure she can't exceed the 5 knot speed limit with the wind behind.
Considering stoppage time and the fact that we mostly like to go boating on sunny days, a smallish (1m x1.6m) solar panel is adequate for a 4m x 2m boat and you'll almost never need to charge it unless you have a really intense continuous duty cycle like a ferry running back and forth all day or you want planing speeds.
Roll up and "flexible" solar panels tend to be either very expensive or very unreliable. I'd just go for a the biggest standard alloy framed solar panel(s) you can fit. They last decades, produce several times more power and cost very little. Just need to find a place to put the ugly thing!
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6 hours ago, Fogg said:
In terms of range extension I presume you can buy a spare battery? And if I recall one make has a portable flexible solar panel that you can plug in?
Yes, spare batteries are available and very easy to swap on and off at sea.
Hold off and try it out before buying a spare battery though - if you're gentle with the throttle then the 1103c battery lasts a couple of hours at normal speeds and all day at low speeds (depending on size of boat). It has a maximum power of 1.1kw which is enough to push a 1.5tonne boat at about 1 knot below hull speed or a 1 tonne boat at full hull speed. That means it'll push a little dinghy around all day long as long as you resist that temptation to make more waves at hull speed without going any faster.
Torqeedo do offer a portable solar panel but it's small and pricey. Assuming you're using it on a dinghy, better to have big, cheap solar panels on the mothership and then charge the Torqeedo battery in 3 hours with the standard 300w mains charger through an inverter running off the mothership battery bank.
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7 hours ago, Fogg said:
Where can I view / buy around Auckland?
We (electric boat co) can arrange for you to view and/or pick up a Torqeedo 1103c at the distribution warehouse in Auckland after lockdown ends. We have two units of our stock down there and no Torqeedos left in Kerikeri at the moment, just a Combi 2.5kw H-Thruster left up here and 5kw inboards. Anything else we can order in from overseas. Not sure when new stock is coming in yet. We'll give you a better price than anyone in Auckland.
Shipping is expensive due to the lithium battery so Auckland pick up is a good idea if you can.
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Thanks for the mention Deep Purple.
It's not listed on our website yet but we can now offer the Torqeedo 603 which is a de-rated version of the 1103 with reduced battery capacity.
It saves you about $1000 and saves some weight too. Perfect if you just need to go out to a mooring and back. The 1103 has several hours running time at moderate speed, which is more than most people need.
The standard 1103 is only 8kg and the battery is only 8kg too, really light weight and you are perfectly balanced with one in each hand. You put them on the boat one at a time so you never have to lift more than 8kg.
Replacing a internal diesel engine with an outboard
in TechTalk
Posted
Looks like the hose going up from the tee might be an improvised anti-siphon device. It would have been added because the water pump is leaking. As long as the valve at the top is closed, the water pump will work OK but it will leak. If you open the valve at the top then it will let air into the top of the loop and that might stop water siphoning in and leaking out of the water pump, so it might stop it sinking the boat. It should never be opened when the engine is running. Just a guess.
If the tee is below the waterline then either it isn't that, or it is that but it doesn't work.
Email me through the contact page at electricboat.co.nz and I can tell you more about the electric drive.