syohana
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Posts posted by syohana
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1 hour ago, CarpeDiem said:
our use cases didn't fit without a 20kw generator which threw the cost through the roof. That old priority called work gets in the way of being able to just float off Cape Brett for 24hrs waiting for the wind cause you and the crew need to get the boat home for work commitments. Year on year we've found ourselves becalmed and unable to sail for a long period. Eg, this year we spent 14hrs motoring home after Coastal Classic and 8 hours motoring home after BOI race week. The alternative is everyone misses work for an extra day or we leave the boat at the extra expense of going up to collect it and missing more racing cause the boat isn't home.
Apart from being bad practice to ever sail to a schedule, you still didn't need a 20kw genset. Just back off the throttle by 1 knot on those long passages and your power consumption will halve. Back off another knot and it will halve again. Enjoy the silence! even with a diesel you'll see the same in terms of fuel consumption. Not sure how big your boat is but I bet you would never actually use 20kw except bashing directly into a strong headwind at full speed. That's masochism not sailing!
QuoteAre you aware of drop in replacements for sail drives? (everyone seems to want you to switch to a shaft).
You should probably have been recommended a pod drive rather than a shaft drive. They are still quite hard to source in larger sizes but it can be done.
A pod drive does cost a little more but not if you'd have to put in a new propeller shaft. A pod drive can replace a saildrive.
We do also have drop in replacement conventional saildrive options with the motor inboard and a conventional technodrive leg with 90 degree gear at the bottom. Have a browse on our website. I'd always steer people towards a pod rather than a conventional saildrive for the reasons listed in my first post and because a saildrive has gears it it so there are a efficiency losses.
Remember that pod drives can bolt onto the hull absolutely anywhere so another option would be twin 5kw pods, one each side and fit a blanking plate where the old saildrive was in the middle. Twin motors allow you to spin on the spot and provide redundancy, plus you'd save the cost of a bow thruster if you were considering having one. You can even build a pod drive into the rudder if you want to get creative!
I can't imagine why you would need a 20kw genset, that would be very heavy and bulky. A 20kw generator would provide enough power to propel a 20 tonne displacement boat at hull speed without draining anything from the batteries.
In reality if people do have a genset then they use it as a range extender, drawing from the batteries and the genset together at full speed, or providing unlimited range at an economic cruising speed (say 4 knots) to get you home.
If you had a shaft drive then I would recommend a parallel hybrid where your diesel engine drives both the propeller shaft directly and the electric motor attached to that prop shaft generates, propelling the boat and charging the batteries at the same time. Much better than a series hybrid and a fraction of the cost. Unfortunately we don't have a saildrive option for this yet but we are working on it (our own 50ft catamaran has saildrives and we want parallel hybrid on one side, electric drive on the other).
QuoteFor replacing a 20kw (29hp) diesel what sized motor would you recommend? (We were recommended 15kw to be able to motor at our current speed of 6.5knots which is below Hull speed)
How long and heavy is your yacht (displacement tonnes NOT registered tonnage which has more to do with the amount of wine barrels you can carry)? We don't know whether you actually need 29hp or whether you use 60% of that power just to make more waves after you already reached hull speed? Do you ever run your diesel flat out pedal to the metal or are you really only using half or quarter of those horse power? Do you want to motor into strong headwinds and big seas or are you a gentleman who doesn't go to windward?
QuoteWhy are some Lithium batteries illegal on NZ boats? Which laws are they breaking and how?
The one which catches out even the quality brands is the NZS3004 requirement for the visual AND audible alarm which sounds in advance of any situation which might cause the battery to disconnect. Most batteries panic and shut down immediately when things go wrong. We can retrofit a compliance unit to Torqeedo batteries.
The enertec Juice batteries we supply are a real quality product and the whole BMS is actually designed in New Zealand with all custom made circuit boards, not just assembled from off the shelf parts. The programming can be customised and it's NZS3004 compliant out of the box. We use these on our own boats where weight is an issue and lead acid for the boats which can take the weight.
QuoteThese boats you have being motored all day and coming back with batteries nearly full, how many kW of solar do they have? What size boats?
Our "English River Launch" is a Frolic 21 with 640 watts of double glass solar panels built into the canopy. On a sunny day she comes back with batteries full. She has been souped up 2.5kw lynch motor which is overkill. She can tow two of the other boats at hull speed! The original motor would have been 1.5kw. We have to limit her to 1kw so the customers can't exceed the 5 knot speed limit. As there's usually a bit of stopping and starting and most people don't run flat out, she usually comes back with a full battery and if not then it gets filled up during the turnaround time between hires.
Our Ruban Bleu has no solar, just 220kg of old fashioned wet lead acid traction batteries. She is limited to 1.1kw and with the same usage pattern above she will go all day and still have plenty in reserve, charge overnight.
Our 4m catamarans have a single 300w solar panel. the 1.1kw max motors but only use about 500w at normal cruising speed. Again, the usage cycle means the solar panels keep up providing you park them facing the right way during turnaround time.
They have one 5kwh enertec Juice lithium battery weighing 53kg so at cruising speed 500w power consumption they can run 10 hours non stop so we can tolerate a few cloudy days without have to charge.
On cloudy days they all have enough battery capacity to run all day and charge overnight.
The takeaway here is that electric propulsion needs a lot less power then you'd think if you just converted diesel HP to electric KW. Our 21ft boat cruises on about half a kilowatt at 3-4 knots and uses about 1.25 kilowatt at 5 knots. You can use all 2.5kw at just over 6 knots with all that extra power being wasted to make more waves, not going much faster.
Same principle applies to diesel. A 6hp used to be considered adequate for a 32ft yacht. Now people put in 30hp in the same boat so they can make more waves and burn more fuel without going much faster. Diesels like to be run flat out, they hate being at low revs all the time so this trend really isn't good for the motors either.
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2 hours ago, wheels said:
Actually, not totaly so. The advancement in motor technology is still continuing. Advancements have been in the magnetic design part. This is what has given Elon Musk such an advantage in the Industry the blistering power/speed his cars deliver. Once that technology comes to other markets, we are likely to see some big gains again. It's all to do I do have to say, that guy seems to have some mega talented people on his payrole.
There are still big improvements in battery technology sitting on the Horizon. But still a way off being seen on any shop shelf yet. One really exciting design is the Solid state battery. Many major Car makers have given up trying to invent a battery. Instead they are pouring huge amounts of cash into a couple of Industries that have some realy exciting designs. They will be major game changers. But when we will see them, I have no clue.Of course there can still be improvements but the technology is mature so they are incrementally tweaking details. The motors are already 85-95% efficient so there's no room for a big leap but there are still incremental improvements happening in motor design, such as higher power at lower voltage allowing safe DIY installation of bigger motors.
The big leap will be in battery technology as you say. You can install an electric motor now and be happy that it will be future proof and last a lifetime, but you may want to upgrade the batteries in a few years.
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6 hours ago, Frank said:
Great information there, many thanks, I'm just waiting for a reasonably priced 2hp electric outboard.
We have one Torqeedo 1103C left in stock, that's equivalent power to a 3hp petrol outboard. Priced only a little higher than the Chinese ePropulsion clone but it's actually made in Germany and to a very high quality.
We also have Combi outboards from the Netherlands which are bulletproof, solid aluminium, no plastic parts. they will run for longer than the whole lifetime of a petrol outboard before the first quick service to change seals and bearings. They cost a little more to buy but the lifetime cost is far less than any other petrol or electric outboard, especially if you use them every day. Lifetime means not just your lifetime but the grandkids lifetime too!
You do need to overcome that initial big spend but then you reap the benefits of zero maintenance and no fuel or oil to buy. If you use it every day it can pay for itself in one year. You can keep the initial spend down by using lead acid batteries if the boat will take the weight.
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CarpeDiem wrote in another thread:
QuoteI am interested to know how this technology has progressed and how it compares realistically now. When we replaced our Volvo 29hp 2 years ago, the cost of batteries/motor and the most efficient diesel generator was more than a replacement engine and we still needed to buy a sail drive.
The generators came in on paper a good few percentage points more efficient than the new engine which I liked.
But unless we committed to being a full time race boat out of and back to marina power only and made sure we never raced on a day with light winds that we'd need to retire, and find ourselves too far from home, I couldn't make electric cost effective once factoring in the diesel genny costs.
Disclaimer: I run electricboat.co.nz up in Kerikeri. We sell electric propulsion systems and lithium batteries. We also do installations and run our own fleet of five electric hire boats so I'm well placed to answer the questions. I hope it's OK to post useful replies to questions here without being considered spam. If anyone buys anything from us as a result of reading my posts here then please mention crew.org.nz and we'll donate to the site.
So, some good questions!
How has the technology progressed? Electric motor technology is already mature and there's very little room for improvement. It's 100% reliable and highly efficient. It has been mature for 30 years or more. Electric launches were fashionable in the 1920s if you were wealthy enough. The inboard propulsion technology developed in submarines was already mature by the 1940s. Electric propulsion went out of fashion again for other boats to some extent as diesels got better. It remained popular on the inland waterways of Europe where pod type outboards took off in the 1950s (with the motor mounted underwater for direct cooling, no gearbox losses, a perfectly horizontal shaft and complete silence). That simple but highly effective technology has been continually refined ever since and is the basis of all modern electric outboards and smaller saildrives (apart from some really cheap rubbish). Using a pod drive outside the hull on a yacht frees up the internal space completely, there is no engine compartment and the batteries can go anywhere (preferably low down as ballast) so you can really get creative with the layout.
What we do see happening is prices are coming down as sales volumes are increasing exponentially. We are also seeing bigger and bigger pod drives, up to about 30hp equivalent this year. Larger motors still hve the motor on top, requiring a cooling system. We expect to see even bigger systems move underwater into a pod to eliminate the cooling system and make them truly silent. As production volumes increase, another new development is there are some cheap Chinese copies of the European motors coming out. ePropulsion is the best of those cheap copies but not good enough - if you are thinking of sustainability you need to buy something like a Combi which truly lasts a lifetime. If the motor will only last a few years then the emissions involved in manufacturing a new motor will negate the benefits.
Battery technology on the other hand is a fast-moving field. Currently two main options. Conventional lead acid batteries are still cheapest if you don't use the boat that frequently, don't need huge range and weight is not an issue (most non-racing displacement yachts). Lithium batteries are a topic in themselves and we sell some high quality brands. Watch out for the cheap rubbish - the battery management system is the important part and some of them don't even have one! Most lithium batteries on the market are technically illegal to use on boats in NZ and might invalidate the EWoF if the inspector is paying attention.
Every boat is different, but generally you can get a whole day of running time with a total system cost not much more than a good diesel install.
Then you factor in that this system will be virtually maintenance free for life - no fuel, parts, servicing or oil to pay for, ever.
We are currently doing a conversion on an H28 with a 5kw motor and 10kwh of quality NZ made lithium batteries. Total weight of the system about 160kg - less in total than the old diesel, gearbox, fuel tank and start battery. It'll have more power than the old diesel, especially low end torque and acceleration. You also have total control at low speed, there's no clunking into gear already at 1000 revs, you control it precisely from one rev upwards. It's always ready - no need to start it.
So for a typical cruising day sailor who will use 2kw of power at cruising speed that will give 5 hours continuous running time. How often do you need more range than that? For those rare occasions you can carry a portable suitcase generator which only costs $500. If you're ok spending a bit more and want something built in then we also have an extremely compact, silent lightweight 48v marine diesel generator. Kubota based and marinised in the USA. On the whole we try to discourage the use of generators for obvious reasons.
What's really needed is a small adjustment of mindset - if you've got sails use them. If not then cover the boat in solar panels. Your "auxiliary" motor is for getting in and out of marinas and sticky situations. If you want to go a very long way then wait for a wind. As a rule of thumb, your range under electric power will double if you reduce the speed by one knot. So reduce the speed by two knots if you have a long way to go. You can put enough solar on most boats to give you unlimited range at 3 knots on a sunny day, or massively extend your range at 5 knots. Rigging can interfere with this on a sailing yacht of course.
Mostly we are sailing for pleasure not because we need to be somewhere at a particular time. Plan your trip around the wind and the capabilities of your propulsion system.
Electric propulsion is best suited to marina-based boats which can plug in to charge or designs which have space for lots of solar. We do have a client who just converted a sailing yacht which lives on a mooring and only has small solar panels. He is a real sailor so he only uses the motor to pick up the mooring or enter a harbour, otherwise he sails, heaves to or anchors.
Most people over-estimate the power requirements of electric propulsion. Electric motors are much more efficient and most diesel installs these days are very over powered - as you push hull speed you just waste power making more waves and don't actually go any faster. Our hire boats run happily all day long and some of them have enough solar that they usually come back with full batteries! It's unlikely you really need a generator. If you do need one then you may only need a cheap little thing.
Silent electric motoring is a pleasure like sailing, you'll want to slow down and enjoy the relaxing experience. A blaring, rattling, vibrating, smelly diesel means you just want to get home quick and turn the damn thing off!
Also bear in mind that internal combustion engines will likely be illegal within 10 years and diesel fuel taxes will be astronomical even sooner, so re-powering with a diesel now just doesn't make sense. With electric you might have to think a bit more about planning your itinerary for the next 5 years. After 5 years I think battery prices and weight will have come down so much that you can upgrade your batteries and have all the range you want. For this reason, most customers who are not weight sensitive are choosing lead acid (which will easily last 7 years of moderately frequent use). Commercial users and racers are mostly going with lithium due to the cycle life and the weight respectively.
An electric propulsion system can cost the same as a diesel system or up to three times as much depending what you spend on batteries. For a vessel which is in daily use, the system will generally pay for itself in savings on fuel and maintenance within 1-2 years. All commercial vessels should be electric already for this reason alone. In large areas of the Netherlands internal combustion engines have been banned for 10 years or more. There are tens of thousands of electric boats there and nobody is looking back. NZ is very, very late to the party!
So coming back to your system CarpeDiem, not enough detail to be sure but you were probably specified something way more expensive and complex than you needed. Using a 10kw pod motor ($15-25,000) in place of your saildrive the installation cost is negligible, just bolt it on and there's nothing inside the hull except batteries, control box and charger. You could have a battery bank for $7000, $14,000 or $28,000+ depending on range requirements. From $1500 for a charger. From $400 for a portable emergency genset. So a complete system to replace a 29hp saildrive inboard starts at well under $25,000. All ballpark figures only of course.
As an aside, we are developing our own NZ made 5kw propulsion systems and looking for a shaft drive yacht or displacement launch around 24-33ft as a test bed if anyone is interested? We'd provide free mooring for the winter in Kerikeri while we work on it and you get the motor very cheap afterwards if you want it, no obligation.
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19 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:
I am interested to know how this technology has progressed and how it compares realistically now. When we replaced our Volvo 29hp 2 years ago, the cost of batteries/motor and the most efficient diesel generator was more than a replacement engine and we still needed to buy a sail drive.
The generators came in on paper a good few percentage points more efficient than the new engine which I liked.
But unless we committed to being a full time race boat out of and back to marina power only and made sure we never raced on a day with light winds that we'd need to retire, and find ourselves too far from home, I couldn't make electric cost effective once factoring in the diesel genny costs.
good questions, I'll start a new thread with the answers rather than go off topic here.
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We use timing belts on some of our electric drive systems. The difference is the shafts must be completely parallel so it would be a = drive not a V drive. Not suitable to replace most V drives which have an angle between the shafts like the name suggests. You'd also need thrust bearings and a frame to hold and tension the belt so it's not a trivial thing to build.
this sounds like another good opportunity to go electric
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This would be a good opportunity to switch to electric propulsion, save you the problem of getting that old lump back in.
We've got some nice lightweight 5kw brushless units under development, you can lift them in by hand!
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more just remembered...
14. Old wooden jetty at sulphur beach in big shoal bay, next to the little boat ramp near the end of the harbour bridge. Very shallow at low tide but good at high tide if its calm enough.
15. Should be possible to do a quick drop off at Devonport wharf if it's calm enough, don't stop long or a big wake will bump you on it. Very high deck but there are some steps at the side. Watch out for fishing lines. Handy for the ferry into CBD.
16. Matiatia and Kennedy point on Waiheke Island, Islington bay on rangitoto all have good public jetties for pick up/drop off, frequent ferries to the CBD from matiatia and Islington or to half moon bay from Kennedy point. Sometimes it's better to drop people on an island and then they take the ferry into the CBD.
17. Old derelict concrete wharf on the pakuranga side of tamaki river, about 100m before the bridge. Never seen anyone use it but you could probably stop there for a few hours. Not sure of the depth at low tide but should be ok to lean on it if you dry out. People dry out alongside Panmure wharf too.
18. Never tried it myself but ponsonby wharf is another option.
19. Never tried it but Island bay wharf, beachhaven is another one
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1. The fuel dock at bayswater is all-tide
2. the fuel dock at Orakei is accessible all tide.
3. The whole outside of the Western pontoon at Orakei marina is for public pickup/dropoff too but it is very shallow. It would be good at high tide. There's a lack of cleats but there are a few rings to tie onto. The gate to that and the fuel dock (inside the end of the same pontoon) is locked at night but should be open in the daytime (the marina is required to provide public access to that pontoon so complain to security if it's locked).
4. The pontoons at the landing boat ramp on the east side of Orakei Marina (might be too shallow at low tide but good at high tide)
5. Viaduct basin pontoon next to the swimming steps but you need to go through the lifting bridge and it's probably closed during the america's cup.
6. Pontoon next to half moon bay boat ramp
7. At high tide use the long pontoon under the walkway behind Westhaven boat ramp next to Z pier. Loads of space and nobody ever uses it! At low tide that's too shallow but you could probably still access the ends of the actual boat ramp pontoons.
8. The other side of Z pier used to be available for free pick up and drop off but now they are charging for 30 minute slots (book online) and I think it's now restricted to commercial vessels only.
9. Panmure wharf or Panmure yacht and boating club (PYBC) pontoon, next to each other up tamaki river
10. Floating pontoon on the south side of Tamaki river just downstream of opposite PYBC, it's primarily for launching kayaks but you can pick up and drop off there.
11. The long concrete jetty at Okahu point just East of Orakei is deep water but the waves might bash you against the piles and it's usually full of people fishing so watch out for the lines. More suited to bigger boats with good fendering.
12. Old jetty at Beachhaven next to new ferry jetty
13. Pontoon between Birkenhead boat ramp and the ferry dock
We used to pick up charter guests all over Auckland so I got to know all the spots. Some of my info might be a few years out of date, not sure the viaduct is still viable but the rest probably hasn't changed. All of these are pick up and drop off for a few minutes only. You might get away with longer on the shallow pontoon at the back of Westhaven, but do be gone before the tide goes out!
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I'm now running "The NZ Electric Boat Co" up in Kerikeri so I have acquired a bit of knowledge on this subject, we've been equipping a few boats with propulsion batteries.
For our own hire boats which are intensively used commercially, if they can take the weight then we use conventional flooded Trojan L16H ("Motive" branded) lead acid batteries. These are about the heaviest duty 6v traction batteries out there and high quality. You can discharge them quite deeply while still getting a decent cycle life.
If you buy a lead acid battery which has really good deep cycling performance then you might need less nominal amp hours capacity because twice as much of that capacity is actually usable without damaging the battery.
One of our boats came with Sonnenschien 6v gel batteries, maintenance free. If you observe the slightly lower charge voltage then these are very long lived too and no need to top them up. Sonnenschien are available in NZ.
We've heard some good things about the Narada lead carbon batteries, some people have put a lot of deep cycles on them in a short time and they are still going strong, but they've not been around for a lot of years so not 100% proven. Certainly worth a look though.
A good guide as to which is the best lead acid brand is simply to compare the weight at the same capacity. The heaviest brand will probably last the longest. Make sure you compare like with like... the C10 capacity of one battery is not comparable to the C20 capacity of another and some sellers quote capacity at different discharge rates. C10 is the capacity if the discharge is over 10 hours, C20 measured over 20 hours. Some quote C100 which is very optimistic!
For our catamarans, which are more weight sensitive, we use lithium. enertec provide fantastic local support and their Juice Pro batteries are worth the money, but it is a lot of money. Having had one apart I can tell you these are not just assembled from Chinese components, all the circuit boards are custom made for enertec and the batteries, including all the BMS boards, are genuinely designed in NZ. They even customised the software for us. We have built some custom waterproof versions of the enertec battery using their boards.
The Torqeedo lithium batteries are very good too if you have a 24v system and they are inherently waterproof.
The enertec batteries are LiFePo4 chemistry which is inherently safe. The Torqeedo batteries use a more exotic chemistry which is about 30% lighter and have lots of safety features to mitigate that. There's never been any safety issue.
We can supply either of the above lithium brands at a good price (yeah that's a plug! mention crew.org and I'll donate to the site if you buy something)
> Why not 2 x large 12v AGMs? Much less hassle than flooded.
The key with lead acid is to use the biggest, heaviest duty cells you can, that way they will last much longer (eg one string of 400ah cells is better than two strings of 200ah cells in parallel). 12v batteries contain 6 relatively small cells. If you try to put big heavy duty cells in a 12v battery then the battery will become huge and impossible to lift. therefore it's better to split it half and use two 6v batteries, or even 6 2v batteries for a really big battery bank. So generally the best option is one string of huge cells all in series.
The possible exception is if you are going offshore and want some redundancy in the system, if you have two strings of cells in parallel then if a cell fails in one string you can disconnect it and still use the other string.
So, you asked about AGM...
We have Victron Supercycle AGM house batteries on our live-aboard catamaran, very happy indeed with them. Bought them when we were in Europe, can't find a source for them in NZ at the moment though. 4x200ah 12v in parallel because that's what was available. If they had been available then a better option would have been 4x6v 400ah in series and parallel.
Prior to that we had a bank of Haze / Eaton AGM 12v cells, second hand from a vodafone cellphone tower backup bank. Despite their age and small cells they lasted well (9x 12v 100ah batteries in parallel). Again, chosen due to availability more than anything. If you can find used batteries from a quality brand which have been in a well maintained UPS install not doing many cycles, not being overcharged, then they will probably outlast brand new batteries from a cheaper brand. Make sure you really know their history though.
Many people are still going lead acid on the basis that lithium will be much cheaper so they'll switch to lithium (or some new) technology when those lead acid batteries reach end of life. Others want something which will last a lifetime and at a fraction of the weight the Juice Pro is built to do that.
Hope that info helps rather than confuses!
Cheers,
Chris
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I've heard of rod rigging but steel sheets sound a bit heavy. How do you get them around the winch?
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White vinegar will kill most kinds of mould.
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Insurance underwriters are mostly London based and therefore tend to think highly of the RYA Yachtmaster qualification (and rightly so). It isn't recognised in NZ for commercial use but if you're not intending to operate commercially here then the Yachtmaster is the way to go. You'll learn a lot too. Make sure to take the exam in tidal waters because the non-tidal certificate doesn't have the same prestige. NZ Coastguard do arrange Yachtmaster courses in NZ I believe, but nothing beats doing it in the Solent if you have the opportunity. Yachtmaster Offshore is sufficient for most insurers but Yachtmaster Ocean adds celestial navigation. If you progress to Yachtmaster Instructor then your premiums might come down further.
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14 minutes ago, Island Time said:
$1080 from predictwind new. With warranty.
1 hour ago, Bradz said:How much?
The predictwind price doesn't include unlimited data and 150 mins calls until end of June, that's worth an extra $200.
Also looks like the predictwind price is plus GST and plus shipping from iridium in the USA. Maybe you get to pay import tax too! I think you'll pay a lot more than $1080 by the time you get to checkout.
It's almost brand new, I think $900 is fair but I'll consider offers if it doesn't sell before the credit expires.
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1 hour ago, Bradz said:
How much?
$900
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Including an active sim card with unlimited data and 150 mins calls until the end of June. Buy it quick to make use of this credit which expires end of the month! Useful if only to practice using the device before you use it for real.
We are in Opua, perfect if you are planning to go offshore from here.
Condition is as new with box, manuals, charger and accessories.
Also including a spare Sim card which you can activate any time with no minimum term. Use the unit for a single trip then cancel the sim and activate a new sim for the next trip, saves a lot of money!
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I purchased the panels in about may 2016 and got the tribunal hearing in july 2017, got the refund a couple of months after that. The guy I dealt with at AA solar was called Pierre. Quite possible ownership could have changed.
Soon after losing at the tribunal they stopped selling flexi panels, having learnt that you can't just opt out of refunding for faulty goods by stating "no warranty" on the invoice!
Everyone who bought these dodgy panels from any NZ seller for non-commercial use was and is legally entitled to a full refund. AA tried to wriggle out of paying by saying we were a charter yacht but we had luckily already stopped commercial work and gone out of survey when the panels were fitted.
They are not just faulty, they are dangerous and can start fires. AA very much understated the fault, which they were fully aware of.
Not all flexi panels are bad but it's so hard to know what you've got that I wouldn't risk buying them again. You could pay a lot more and still get the same rubbish.
Lensun panels seen to have a good reputation at a reasonable price. I nearly went for those but decided not to risk it.
Regarding the heat, I installed them exactly as AA recommended. If they are not stuck down then they will flex and the cells will crack. Best option to dissipate heat would be too stick them to a sheet of aluminium and mount it above the deck with an air gap. If you're doing that then you might as well get an aluminium framed panel in the first place!
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I bought 8 panels from AA solar. They promised a 5% bulk discount on the whole v order but when I turned up to collect the panels they refused to give the discount on the other charge regulators and cabling, just the panels themselves.
They did state that these panels tended to fail and had no warranty, but they also said they were no worse than any other flexible panel.
I installed them glued down with Sikaflex to the coachroof and they were never bent or stepped on.
Within a couple of months the first panel failed - one cell got so hot that it burnt right through the top of the panel, then water got in the burnt hole and destroyed the rest of the panel.
Within a year about half the panels had failed in the same manner. The top surface of the panels was already getting rough and not transparent any more. The few intact panels were producing a fraction of their rated power.
I removed all the panels and discovered to my horror that the fibreglass below them was burnt black and the foam core had melted under the failed cells. Huge repair job and lucky the boat didn't catch fire.
I contacted AA solar and said warranty or not, these are not fit to be sold and demanded a refund under consumer guarantees act. They refused. I filed a claim in the disputes tribunal. They failed to turn up at the tribunal, made excuses, got it delayed. Second time they were a no-show again and the tribunal ordered a full refund. They took a while to pay but eventually coughed up when the court bailiff was threatened.
So... AA solar are a bit dodgy in my view. They knowingly sold a faulty product and although they have some warnings they also claimed their panels were no worse than others. I happen to know plenty of people whose semi flexi panels didn't burn through the deck!
The law says if you sell something which is not fit for purpose you must give a refund. Full stop. Warranties are supposed to be an extra, bonus protection. Saying "no warranty" doesn't excuse you from your legal responsibilities.
So... I repaired the coachroof at my own cost and installed some big heavy cheap glass panels which look ugly but they still work after a year.
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The inner seal doesn't do much, it's mainly just to keep dirt off the main seal and to stop water collecting in there causing corrosion.
It's often wrongly described as a backup to the main seal but the clip holding it on is pretty useless and it would pop off if there was any pressure behind it. Other saildrive manufacturers don't even have a secondary seal.
The main seal should be replaced after 7 years if it has been heavily used or had sharp shells growing on it. When it gets very old and stiff it fails very gradually (cracks let in a very little water) over a long period of time. It is very unlikely to fail catastrophically.
If the main seal is getting old then it would be best to replace it on your next haul out, which involves splitting the leg from the gearbox. and removing both. You can remove them from above as a single unit before splitting them or remove the leg from below and then the gearbox from above, whatever works best for your install. It's not as hard as it sounds. Unbolt the ring clamping the seal down to the engine bed first and the bellhousing from the engine.
I wouldn't bother replacing the secondary seal, as long as it keeps the dust and dirt out and you can keep it reasonably dry in there.
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His insurance would have paid for the damage to the yacht and loss of use, which is why the $400 was for emotional harm only. Sounds like the yacht owner wasn't on board at the time so $400 doesn't seem unreasonable for emotional harm only.
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Try Fairway Bay marina adjacent to gulf harbour, it's small with friendly management, a community feel and was welcoming to live-aboards when I was there a few years ago. Gulf harbour has a few live aboards too. If you want to be central then can't beat Westhaven but it's very expensive and only allows liveaboards on the one pontoon which has pump-outs at every berth.
NZ rules on holding tanks are strict so make sure to buy a boat with a big tank and look for a berth close to a pump out facility or with easy access to the open, deep sea if you intend to live aboard. If in Auckland you have to go right outside the islands to empty the tank (or use a pump out).
Northland has really silly rules - if you're on a mooring you have to leave at least once every 5 days to empty the tank, although I think that is being extended to 10 days it takes no account of the size of your tank!
Any marina near auckland may have a waiting list. If you want a berth quicker. some of them operate an unofficial "don't ask don't tell" policy for live aboards. You can stay on board a lot without living aboard, as long as you don't hang the washing out or get bank statements posted to the marina office (privatebox.co.nz can scan your post to email. good service).
If you decide to expand your range a bit further form Auckland then Kerikeri is beautiful and I have some live-aboard pile moorings and a jetty mooring there which i rent out.
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I found an article about Gerry and his hooklever, with a photo and email address for him, it's also 5 years old though:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/boating/cruising/9252871/Alvah-Simon-Those-Clever-Kiwis
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The rigger at Norsand boatyard in Whangarei makes his own special design of removable forestay tensioning lever which would probably be ideal for this purpose and as he makes them himself he could customise it for you if necessary. He talked to me about them about 5 years ago so I don't know if this info is current but if you call Norsand boatyard I expect they can put you in touch with him. I think his name is Gerry or Jerry. Even if he's not making them now I'm sure he'd have good advice for you.
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The jetty is available now and I also have two pile moorings for up to 14.7m length available - long term preferred but short term berthing is available meanwhile so get in touch!
Electric propulsion and conversion questions
in TechTalk
Posted
See my reply to CarpeDiem above. We sell enertec Juice lithium. The LiFePo4 cells are quality imported items but the BMS and display is their own design with all custom circuit boards and software. Another nice feature is NMEA2000 connectivity.
I have not heard of a boat actually failing an EWoF for this reason yet but they might start checking, especially as a knee jerk reaction if there was a death, collision or wreck in NZ due to the battery cutting out at the wrong time without warning (whether that be propulsion failure or just the nav lights went off).