K4309
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Posts posted by K4309
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3 hours ago, harrytom said:
I can get run over crossing the rd if Im not carefull,where do you stop? Accidents happen in all walks of life. work/sport
Yeah, but that is not a great analogy. What is the likelihood of getting hit by a truck while minding your own business on the footpath? You have to make a conscious decision to step onto the road. There is no conscious decision to get whacked by the boom.
A better analogy would be standing on the footpath minding your own business with a massive steel beam that can suddenly swing out and take your head off without warning, at random times.
It is a basic safety in design thing. Just make the gap between the boom and the cockpit sole greater. Sure you can yell 'quack' at your crewmates (duck) every now and then, but it isn't that effective. Yes there are a number of risks in sailing, as in any aspect of life. That is one of the things that attract us to many aspects of sport, the risk and the reward.
I know racing boats aren't cruising boats, but cruising boat designers address these issues very well. Boom above head height in the cockpit. And the mainsheet issue, many boats now put the mainsheet out of the cockpit, generally on the cabin top. I see some of the fancy French racing boats have the mainsheet / traveller at the very aft of the cockpit, as in out of everyone's way. That is another way to deal with it. Doesn't eleminat the risk, but it does reduce it by removing the mainsheet from the main crew work areas of the cockpit. I'm sure the purists will argue that having high booms and travelers on the cabin top is not fast, which has some truth to it, but at the same time you can't win a race if you don't finish with all the crew, so in that regard killing your crew is not fast either. It is all about balance really.
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Noting you can anchor in any CAN you want at any time as per the CAN notice, Schedule 2, Clause 1 (c)
"no other alternative safe sheltering locations or mooring can be easily acquired"
Oh, and the reason MPI has given for allowing anchoring in the Waiheke CAN is because the caulerpa is dieing off naturally. Who would have thought nature would just sort itself out? Just like fan worm and the other 2 dozen or so invasive species that are listed at the moment.
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10 minutes ago, khayyam said:
Not without raising the centre of effort and compromising performance. Which might be worth it, but is why race boats don't.
Be fairly easy to add a rating penalty for low booms. If national bodies are serious about safety that is. No performance advantage if you get stung on handicap (in most respects, sure there are those that only want to win on line).
As BP says, there is untold scope for new rules. Minimum height for booms. Carrying helmets onboard, wearing helmets when running downwind in the dark in big waves. Something about preventers (can introduce more issues).
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3 hours ago, Black Panther said:
Anyone able to tell us in plain English what they've been up to ?
One of the selectors was the father of the guy trying to get selected for the 49er for the Olympics. Would not excuse himself from the selectors panel even though there was a jaw dropping conflict of interest.
Half the team qualified for the Olympics but then YNZ refused to nominate / select them. Happened to be the non-traditional events of kiting and wind-foiling I believe. That is just the stuff we know about publicly. Fairly sure I've missed some public stuff amongst that.
That, and of course YNZ is now the personal empire of Abercrombie, who has been CEO for like, forever. Answerable to no-one.
It has been clear for some time that YNZ needs a good clean out. The carrying on at Cycling NZ, Rowing NZ and High Performance Sport was always going to catch up with YNZ.
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The guy in Te Atatu is an absolute star at fixing things like that.
No idea how to say his name, but he has performed many miracles. Even Kiwi Yachting recommend him. You may have just blown a fuse or a FETS. Both super easy to replace if you know what you are doing. He has replaced both on out AP course controller at different times.
Obviously being this close to Christmas may be problematic, but it would be worth a phone call at a minimum. Or drop your dead unit off and hope for a Hail Mary.
EFrontier - GPS Receivers and Bluetooth for Australia and NZ
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4 hours ago, motorb said:
Well, it's been just over 24 months since posting this thread and I'm very pleased to say that I've moved my little tracker into a spot on the Weiti River.
I'll save you all the rant, but the Westahaven poles literally have fist sized holes in them at the low water mark and westhaven has NO plan to fix this. Yes, they have been snapping off, and yes, mine snapped off last year. They're just gambling that nobody gets hurt while they wait for everyone to leave. They even mucked us around (again) on the dinghy racks, with a big step down in security, services and parking. Absolutely disgusting behaviour from a Council controlled organisation. Be very careful navigating in that corner of the marina as I'm pretty certain there are snapped off poles below the water that they still haven't removed.
Very glad to be out and very much enjoying the community/club vibe up at Weiti. I just hope one day Westhaven gets a new directive to cater to a wider range of Auckland boaties.
Welcome to the river. You will love it.
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I've been trying to fix all the outstanding items on my boat for the last, err, 10 to 15 years.
It's a fools game. Unobtainable. You will go mad trying to achieve it. Like trying to achieve perfection.
By the time you get to the end of the list, the stuff at the start will need fixing or replacing again.
Sure, you def need to fix things like bearing screech and the water pump, but I'd really caution against trying to get everything perfect on a boat. You will go mad.
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Do you have space for a thrust bearing? Supposed to be the ducks nuts for removing vibration, but it sounds like it might be hopeful with the dimensions you've already mentioned.
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1 hour ago, aardvarkash10 said:
point is, there is an acceptance of responsibility, not a passing on of it to some as-yet-undefined and no doubt publicly funded entity.
Its actually well easy to arrange for removal and disposal. Boats are hauled and road transported all the time, and there are disposal and transfer stations around the country. Add it up guys.
Again, it just costs.
Below is the list of exclusions at Waste Management's Transfer Stations. If you put your boat on a Boat Transport Truck, and rocked up to a transfer station, they aren't going to let you in the gate, let alone leave your boat there.
I'm sorry if I sound rude, but anyone thinking it is easy to dispose of an old boat is just ignorant. Please try it. You will then understand what I'm banging on about.
The usual exclusions are oil and any known toxins, as in antifoul. Anything flammable, such as the content of the impossible to drain properly fuel tank. Flammable solids is an interesting one. Swabs, liners and every fibreglass boat. Noting of course you pay by the kg, so you'll need to find some land somewhere to remove the keel and engine before transporting the hull to a transfer station.
In practice you have to strip the hull back on the exterior, and empty and clean the interior, just to be able to dump it. Most people that have the ability to do that, either financial or physically, are probably going to be able to maintain their boat in the first place.
Exclusions:
- Asbestos
- Dangerous goods such as; flammable liquids, flammable solids, poisons, pool chemicals, gas bottles, paint
- Explosives and fireworks
- Agricultural residues or chemicals
- Scrap motor cars
- Animal by-products e.g. carcases, offal
- Medical waste of any nature
- Firearms
- Tractor / OTR tyres
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23 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:
point is, there is an acceptance of responsibility, not a passing on of it to some as-yet-undefined and no doubt publicly funded entity.
Its actually well easy to arrange for removal and disposal. Boats are hauled and road transported all the time, and there are disposal and transfer stations around the country. Add it up guys.
Again, it just costs.
Please, try it.
Then come back and tell us how you got on.
The boat owners I have helped have been accepting of their responsibility. It is just very hard to get the job done in any legal or legitimate way.
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Oh, and if your boat is insured, the only way you are going to get the insurance co to sort it out is by wrecking it.
You can't phone PIC and say I don't want my boat anymore, can you guys dispose of it for me?
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30 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:
Nope,that's not the only option.
It's the cheapest, but not the only.
If you own a boat that is truly end of life, you should dispose of it appropriately. Pull it out, break it up, sell reusable stuff eg winches, send the rest to managed landfill.
Trouble is, that costs.
Psyche's proposal is a solution if the cost falls fairly. Owners have to take some reasonable responsibility.
There is an existing model - cars. End of life cars are now (mostly) disposed of by the owner at a cost.
That sounds great in theory, but in practice, it turns into a flying spaghetti monster.
And it is not about cost, although that is a factor.
The issue is compliance.
Can you tell me where you can haul a boat out and break it down? Will Pier 21 do it? Gulf Harbour? Last I heard it was a struggle to get those places to haul a boat just to do the antifoul.
If you don't have insurance, is there anywhere that will haul you out? let alone then allow you to smash the boat to bits there?
Have you ever tried finding a dump truck operator to take a smashed boat to a landfill? It is very, very complicated. They are liable for compliance issues at the landfill around toxins - what we normally refer to as anti-foul, and of course oils, and a wide array of other nasties found in boats.
Sure, it can be done in theory. But finding land you can do it on is one issue. Finding contractors that will do it is another. Getting the job done without breaching some rule or regulation is another. I've been involved with this process and the only way it happened, in a Council car park infront of sports clubs and a beach reserve, is cause the boat was already wrecked on the beach and that is where we dragged it too so that it wasn't smashed up on the beach, in the sand etc.
Your example of an existing model is not applicable. People get paid for their old cars. There is substantial existing infrastructure around disposing of cars. It is a whole industry. Currently, you can't google a boat disposal company and just pay someone to sort out your former pride and joy. You do that for cars and you will have guys around the next morning offering you cash.
In my view the Harbour Masters need to stop whining and set up a solution, somewhere that boats can voluntarily be dismantled and disposed of responsibly.
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And this situation:
Kauri 26 ft motor sailer. Bulid north shore approx 1960Needs to go as mooring adjacent to Herald island no longer available Any offers gratefully accepted Photos taken several years ago. Has been on mooring since then with little maintainence -
And this sort of thing is common. Photo of several derelict boats at Little Shoal Bay, one that someone is trying to move on...
Hi all, may be of interest for someone looking for a cheap Trailer sailor . The boat in pic my friend Hector owned some years sgo he sold it to a chap by name of Ken . but i know Ken is most unwell and this little 20ft Trailer sailor (forget the design name ) would be going cheap (very ) its at LSB N Shore . Ken had two other boats at LSB a big tri that the houbour board towed away and cut up , plus Ken had another Trailer sailor 20ft he sold for 500 dollars just to get rid of it . I have sailed to W Island on the one in Picture with My Mate Hector when he owned it , good little Yacht . if anyone is interested I can find out Kens details as I will be that way on Weekend , cheers Bob . PS boat in fore ground .
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Salthouse 25 heavily fouled, has rig and sails, moored Shelly Park, south Auckland. Free for removal
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Sabre 20. In Paremata and in need of a serious clean.Free to a good home!
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Genisis 33 in Whiti, got lots of interest, moved on to a new owner but not outside of the environment:
BOAT NOW SOLD -I have a Genesis 33 in whitianga moored in back bay.Mooring rent is $50 week,Boat has soft spots on top in several areas as wood only.Hull is good as it’s GOP. Needs an anti foul and a heck of a good clean up. Engine is a 275 ford Sabre turbo runs mint. No batteries atm. Beautiful boat that we need gone please make us a reasonable offer.This is an older pic and is worse condition but will try to get better photos when I can. -
Well maintained Raven in Westhaven, open to (any) offers. It's berth is given if anyone want to go check it out:
I have a Raven 26 at Westhaven and although the engine starts stalls when in drive, been told low compression on the enginein regular use until then antifoul 12 months ago2 mains , 3 Jibs , Furler , electric Windlass , tiller autopilot and all other bitslooking to sell anyone interested? -
20 minutes ago, Psyche said:
We are led by people who think all problems can be solved with another rule.
This.
And yes, I fully agree the solution is a wrecking facility. Not more rules.
Requiring compulsory insurance wont do anything for the many hundreds of already abandoned boats around the district. Erm, they are already abandoned...
It wont do anything for all the people who's boat is at end of life, and want to get rid of it in some sort of responsible way. There are a lot of people that are in that camp. Currently, the only option is to give it away to someone else. That doesn't actually solve the problem of the end of life boat, it just shifts it to a different person.
For all those people thinking insurance will be the saviour, go and have a look at the FB group "sitting their rotting, help save me". Then tell me which insurance co will take the liability on these boats. PS, there are some 'bargain' boats you can pick up for a box of beer or less.
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PS, since we are on the topic, having an ownership register and visible registration numbers (like as for jet skis) would probably be far more effective in stopping people do a runner who's boats have caused damage. It would also go some way to enabling the Harbour Master to track down errant boat owners. That is the Harbour Master's real problem. Being able to prove ownership and locate owners.
Having insurance would be as useful as tits on a bull of the HM still can't find the owner to claim on the insurance.
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27 minutes ago, harrytom said:
Should be condition of owning a yacht/motorboat/car etc minimum 3rd party.
That would be inconsistent with requirements of owning a car.
You don't have to have insurance for a car, so why a boat? And there is far far more social cost with uninsured car drivers doing a runner and not putting things right when they cause damage.
People conflate needing to pay for damage you cause with needing to have insurance. That is a nonsense. You just need to be able to pay for the damage you cause. How you pay for that is entirely up to you.
All the money you have spent in your life on insurance products could go into investment accounts, and you use that to pay for any damage you cause. Avoids paying for insurance co overheads, inefficiencies and shareholder dividends. That is just one example of how you can provision to pay for damage. There is a pre-conception that insurance is the only way to address the risk. It isn't. Granted that it is one of the easiest ways, and one of the most common ways. It isn't necessarily the best way, and not for everyone.
Another example, I have life insurance. My good mate doesn't. He owns 4 rentals, I don't. If he carks it, his missus can sell a rental and his kids are looked after. If I cark it, I need the life insurance policy. The logic that all boats must have insurance would be the same as saying all people with kids must have life insurance.
I'd imagine if you required compulsory insurance for all yachts, you would also need an ownership register and licensing. Collectively that would add substantial cost. And it still wont do anything to address derelict boats busting off moorings and getting wrecked every time there is a bit of a NE blow. It would just be a new way of shuffling money around. The unintended consequence would probably be that the responsible boat owners wont bother going and cleaning up their own boats, as per the 2 examples I gave, cause they've already paid for someone else to do it via insurance.
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Bit of pseudo-legal going on in that article.
Person in authority makes statement that sounds like it is mandatory for all boats to have insurance.
There isn't any legal requirement to have insurance.
Especially not 'wreck insurance'. I've never heard of it until that article.
It is correct that you have to pay to have a wreck of yours removed from the environment. But how you manage that is up to you. You could just pay cash if you wanted. Or do it yourself. I've helped two owners of wrecked boats do it themselves. Just because people don't have insurance doesn't mean they are not responsible citizens.
One of the boats I helped clean up after being wrecked, the owner lost his business and fairly much everything due to the covid lockdowns. He was a good, honest citizen though. He lost his boat as well, but put in the work to clean the environment and dispose of the remains properly. They other guy I helped was getting criticised and had complaints to the council for driving his dump truck on the beach. Err, how else do you want him to remove his wrecked boat? Wait till it's smashed to smithereens and try and pick up the splinters? People will bitch about everything and do nothing to help.
Sure, there is logic in having insurance, and it would make life very easy for the Harbour Master. I have insurance. But implying that having 'wreck insurance' is a legal requirement is marginal. As is the implication that anyone that chooses to 'self insure' is somehow morally bankrupt.
The underlying and wider social and environmental problem is that there is no legal way to easily dispose of end of life boats. They just sit on moorings till they break off and sink, or get given away to some unsuspecting dreamer who go and wreck them. There are FB pages giving away boats now. Some serviceable and usable boats are being given away. That is the issue. The HM whining about wreck insurance is just a distraction.
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On 4/12/2024 at 9:16 AM, 1paulg said:
It is looking as though the next Island cruising season is going to be a nightmare getting clearances - the system is definitley breaking down - they have lost quite a few experienced Inspectors who will be hard to replace
I understand there are only 3 'assessors' nationally. (not inspectors anymore, apparently).
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Do you want to sail it to Argentina or Arkles Bay?
As in, Cat 1 or Gulf Cruising. Will make a difference to how diligent you (or anyone giving advice) need to be, and consequently how robust the design work and physical work needs to be.
2 dead in SY Hobart
in MarineTalk
Posted
Both were initially reported to have died when their respective boats’ boom hit them. But the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia’s David Jacobs late on Friday said Smith was in fact killed when he was hit by the sail’s main sheet.
Hours earlier onboard the Flying Fish Arctos, Quaden was hit by the boat’s boom. The 55-year-old Western Australian man could not be saved despite his teammates performing extensive CPR.