marinheiro
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Posts posted by marinheiro
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I have not used Kevin personally, but I suggested him to the guy (not sure of his name, Barry Young??, used to lecture at the Maritime school), who was building the Loomes 12m power trimaran a few years ago - he went with Kevin and was very pleased with the result.
He is the one of the last of the old school boatbuilders, and also a YNZ safety inspector
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My brother got a silver medal on the athletics field, throwing all sorts of things
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KM, is that new insurance the Ship Repairers Insurance?
I reckon that is something the insurance industry dreamed up to squeeze yet more premiums, saying their general third party policies did not provide the coverage they had previously told you it did, and the marinas jumped at it for more CYA.
At Sandspit there is a group policy which contractors pay (I think) $300 to sign on to.
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Note AON is a bróker, not an insurer.
I gave up on them due to lack of service/interest and moved to Baileys
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second Clive's comments.
Excellent presentation by Dave and Rebecca with lots of valuable information and anecdotes eg when trying to put your mountain climbing mate's dislocated shoulder back in place, remember to take your crampons off first!
And no, we did not BBQ the chooks at the end of the day.
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Of the Petrol Stations, Caltex seem to be the most likely to have LPG bottle refilling, I have used the one in Constellation Dr on occasion.
Some hire companíes have filling facilities and there is Rockgas out in Henderson
Apart from the above, look for the industrial gas suppliers, in Warkworth we get LPG from the local BOC agent, Mahurangi Sheetmetals
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Baileys brokers are good, they work for the insured if there is a claim. They use QBE for local marine insurance
Vero's policies have too many ifs and buts
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The Given Cat follows Ron's standard construction details for the design, strip plank cedar hulls and wing deck, decks, cabin top in ply/foam/ply sándwich.
I have no vested interest in the boat, but know it checked out well for a prospective buyer
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Another good option, and these sail well, Ron Given 16m
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/multihull/auction-1036845075.htm
only down side for these and any other 12m+ cat is that marina berths are relatively scarce and expensive.
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Smithy, my comments were in respect of hard wired systems.
I would suggest in your situation installing a basic hard wired system along the lines outlined in Dtwo's posting, noting it will have to be connected to vessel's ground.
It is not going to get any easier dealing with the marina's and it is not unduly expensive.
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Chris Mc Mullen is the guru on this. You would be able to get in touch with him via Waitemata Woodies
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Dtwo, I asume you are in Auckland. Suggest you talk to Jamie Frankham at Enertec, they did my work.
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In reply to Dr Watson's query our washing machine is an older versión of this Italian Candy unit
previous owners sourced it in Australia.
The wáter heating element has been disconnected to reduce current draw, a 1000W inverter will run it (I recall the current draw for the Water Heater is around 1300W so a 2kW inverter will easily run it with the element).
For a full cycle it uses approx 60 l of wáter. Quite often we will do a bucket wash then chuck the washing into the machine for a final rinse and spin dry.
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Commenting a few ítems above,
The requirement for the AC grounding connection is a requirement of 3004.2 and the US ABYC standards (and I expect the equivalent ISO standard), it is there as a safety requirement in case a phase wire short coricuits and comes in contact with the metallic case of an appliance, it carries this current safely to "ground" ie the sea. It is the same as the ground stake every house has. A galvanic isolator (or better and isolating transformer) is essential in the shore power connection earth wire to keep you electrically isolated from other boats connected to shore power.
It is not widely known that the ground wire must be the same size as the supply wires, this makes life rather difficult with the inverter where you can be talking 50 or 70mm2 cables.
Matt - you need to add a couple of ELCB's to your shopping list, one adjacent to the shorepower connection and another on the inverter output.
The AC installation must be such that the AC power is always synchronised or isolated, ie if you have 2 sources they must be perfectly synchronised eg multiple genrators or generator in parallel with shore power supply. Fortunately we do not have this on our boats and therefore we either follow the protocol Wheels noted, ie only one source at a time (you can this with the slide lockouts on AC switchboards), or run the shorepower AC thru the inverter to the switchboard, as my Mastervolt inverter charger does so. I have an incoming switchboard upstream of the inverter which feeds the inverter and HWC element, the HWC element only runs off shorepower.
One other point is that if you are using and on-board power source ie generator or inverter, then this source must connect the neutral and earth. This should be done automatically but there is some equipment around, especially el-cheapo inverters that do not do so.
The issue with running a power lead into the boat for a singel appliance arises because 3004.2 does not contemplate it. The electrical reg I previously referenced for hand held power tolos should be sufficient but it is not explicit hence the problem. This is further exacerbated by the Electrical Regulations assigning significant authority to Worksafe.
This lack of definition is what leaves us open to all this interpretation by inspectors, who at the end of the day want to ensure their proverbials are covered.
At Sandspit the previous inspector who was frequenting the marina was causing mayhem on the DC side so after some research an inspector was identified who followed the intent of the regs and 3004.2, not try and stretch it out.
Smithy - I am a mechanical engineer with alot of experience in industrial and mining electrical installations. When I upgraded my yacht's electrical systems I did alot of research and discussed requirements with the electricians, did all the DC work myself and all the AC grunt work(running cables and mounting equipment), with the licensed electrician making the connections and testing. So I would not represent myself as an expert, just an above average level of knowledge in this área.
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I suggest it comes down to what your wáter capacity is and how long you are prepared to be between fill ups.
Consumption wise when coastal cruising 200-250l/week including washing dishes in fresh wáter and brief showers is generous for a couple and maybe small children. If your crew includes teenage daughters then the biggest watermaker you can fit will still not be enough.
I like having a watermaker to feed the ultimate cruising luxury - a washing machine!
Agree with IT they are a maintenance headache, maybe worse than refrigeration
You also need to consider how to power it, if you are condemned to engine driven refirgeration and have the space then an engine drive unit makes sense. Otherwise better to go DC but be aware even with the energy saving watermakers the power draw can be quite significant, meaning additional batteries and solar/wind generation, or otherwise you could be back to running the engine to charge the batteries
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Smithy,
that is how standards work, they are not applied or retrospective unless prescribed by legislation, and in the case of AS 3004.2 it is only referenced by the regulations for new conectable installations
The preamble in C10 is in relation to new installations covered by this revision of the standard.
Furthermore the preface of AS 2004.2 (2008) further acknowlleges that it only covers new installations and is not retrospective, and note the reference to legislation
This Standard may be applied through legislative requirement, from a date to be set by the
relevant regulating authority. If work on an installation was commenced before publication of this edition, the relevant regulatory authority or electricity distributor may grant permission for the installation to be completed under AS/NZS 3004:2002.
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See Clause 60 of the regs which references both AS3000 & AS3004.2, noting reference to "conectable installation".
Note also clause 3, where the regulations do not apply, which says pleasure craft other than those with connectable installations.
The C.10 check list from AS 3004.2 is an installation check list, C.11 is the testing checklist and basically deals with the AC side and earthing/bonding
In respect of retrospectivity C.3 of AS3004.2 states
NOTE: Existing installations will have been designed and installed to conform to legislative
requirements applicable at the time of their design and erection and may have been subsequently repaired using methods that were acceptable when the installation was originally installed. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe provided that the installation and repair methods satisfy the fundamental safety principles of Part 1 of AS/NZS 3000:2007.
So the installation check list can only be applied to new installations under the current standard and similarly for the testing requirements.
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Smithy, as I mentioned previously AS3004.2 is only referenced in the Regs for Prescribed Electrical Work, ie greater than 50V.
On the DC side it is only a guideline, not mandatory.
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If you have a "connectable" installation, ie caravan, boat etc with a hard wired AC system then the regs are clear that the installation must have an EWOF prior to connecting
In relation to leads to temporary equipment, the applicable clause seems to be (by inference) clause 89, "Use of Hand held appliances in certain high risk situations", which states equipment must be doublé insulated and an RCD must be used.
With inspections, Wheels is correct that the inspectors cannot agree, so all you can do is choose your inspector carefully, ie ask around and before engaging an inspector ask where he sees the limit of the inspection.
The other challenge is the Marina Operators Assoc keep cooking up their own rules, eg they are saying leads for an EWOF installation must be tagged. This is incorrect, the EWOF covers the lead as well but most marinas have made this additional ruling, all in the name of CYA.
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The overarching legislation for Electrical Installations are the Electrical Safety Regulations 2010 (with quite a few subsequent amendments) - found here for some bed time reading
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/64.0/whole.html#DLM2763501
AS/NZS 3004.2 is referenced in relation to conectable installations (clauses 60,76-78).
My understanding from working with Standards over the years and discussing the subject with the inspector is that they are for new work and if retrospectivity is required there must be a legislative requirement for retrospectivity, eg a some years ago the requirement was introduced that all high rise buildings in Wellington be upgraded to the latest versión of the earthquake code. The inspector highlighted that alot of the land based electrical installations do not comply with the latest versión of AS3000 because there is not that requirement.
Those inspectors sticking their noses into DC systems are overstepping the mark, their "battery limit" for the inspection is to ensure there is a connection to the vessel ground (noting Steel and aluminium boats then introduce further complications) - nothing further on the DC side.
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We had an Electrical inspector at Sandspit last week checking leads and EWOFs for anyone who made the request.
I asked him 2 questions in relation to some of the contentious issues
1. Is the current standard retrospective, ie do our older boats have to be revised to meet the current requirements? Answer - the standard is not retrospective, only requirement (and this is the tricky one) the installation should be "safe"
2. Is there any basis for inspectors making an EWOF inspection to check the DC as well as the AC system? Answer - no. The EWOF only covers prescribed electrical work (ie >50V) as defined by the electrical regulations.
It was interesting talking to him to hear he found some AC installation problems, even on brand name Australian boats.
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the questions to ask yourself on any well used yacht_
paint job?
rig and sails upgrade?
engine replacement?
teak decks relacement? (better to remove and repaint)
depending on how/who does it, each of the above can run to $20k+ on a 10-11 m yacht.
Re that Beale - VW diesel,do not even think of it, been there done that!
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there were a couple of Jim Young 10 & 11m centreboarders. Further back in time was Birdsall's Magic
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After changing fuel filters and checking the screen in the fuel lift pump there is one further filter to check - the CAV rotary injector pumps generally have a little nylon "sock" filter on their inlet, remove the feedline from the secondary filter(s) and it can be removed for cleaning. Had this issue on my 6.354 Perkins, spent a month chasing my tail until a mechanic told me about the filter.
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Marina eWof requirements
in MarineTalk
Posted
Becarra, ABYC E11 states same as AS 3004.2, the AC earth/ground (not neutral) and the vessel's grounding system (which will be connected to the DC negative) shall be connected.
The MEN system in NZ sees the AC Neutral and earth connected at the point of "generation". If there is an onboard generator or inverter, these are required to make this connection when in use.
DTwo, pleased you had a good outcome with Enertec