marinheiro
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Posts posted by marinheiro
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4 hours ago, mcp said:
I will be getting a new dinghy set up in the near future, and I am currently thinking of a 3 metre-ish hard alloy dinghy with a 10hp motor, a foam collar to stop it from damaging the mothership when it hits it a hundred times or more per day, but no one seems to have this type of dinghy? I like the idea of no tubes to puncture, likely to be quite fast with a small motor (?), easy to row, lightweight.
I'm not 100% sold on this setup yet...
What are the pros and cons of the different dinghy types you have owned? Also, how often in practice have the Pros and the Cons been of use or an actual hindrance? What are the possible workarounds if you don't have one of these Pros and Cons?your brief sounds very much like the one Russ Carlyon gave himself when he conceived his Offshore Cruising Tenders https://octenders.co.nz/. He looked at aluminium but it was too heavy for the weight he had in mind. Given his experience with composites it was a no brainer for him to go in that direction. The fender on OCT's is some sort of closed cell foam, inside a Sunbrella cover.
If you wanted a hard dinghy and don't want to pay the OCT Rolls Royce price for a high quality product, you could build/have built an aluminium or plywood dinghy and fit a similar fender to the OCT - just needs a top and bottom bolt rope moulding. Alternatively you could source a foam collar similar to that being fitted to some large RIBs
Do you want to go fast or slow? If slow Jim Young's 2.8 and 3.5m stitch and tape are very good. For a planing hull the Frank Pelin 10 and 12' Nomads are highly regarded (the OCT hull shape is very close the Pelins, just flatter in the bottom). I don't think anyone is manufacturing conventional aluminium dinghies less than 12' anymore (try Fish City), if you wanted to get one built a good start would be to find out who builds the Seafarer RIB bottoms, I think someone in Silverdale.
A solid dinghy does not have the stability of an inflatable, the OCT is however much better in this respect. A solid dinghy has more internal volume. An aluminium bottom is of course the best if you are going to be dragging it over rocks regularly
I have a Naiad 2.5 RIB aluminium bottom inflatable, excellent dinghy but quite heavy (almost twice the weight of an equivalent size Seafarer) due to the aluminium sides being much higher for the top bolt rope and it having inner (hypalon) and outer (PVC tubes).
The best thing you can do for a deck stowed inflatable is put a cover on it - I buy them from Burnsco for about $110 and they last 4-5 yrs.
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17 hours ago, ouk said:
Thanks marinheiro, but they only have sanitation hose up to 38mm / 1"1/2. That's why I went to General Marine Services who usually have that kind of stuff when the normal retailers don't, and they are out of stock. I thought it would not be too hard to find another place where I could find some hose, but apparently I was wrong...
I'm not too keen to replace it by exhaust hose even if it's the last bit of hose and should only ever be full of seawater, and even if I can replace it in a few months by the proper stuff (not too keen to do that job twice). The closest replacement I could find for now is this but there is no technical data to determine suitability.
I should have read your post better, yeah 50mm will be a bit of a mission. Try these guys, they have just about every hose under the sun
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15 hours ago, ouk said:
Hi,
I'm looking for a short length (less than half a meter) of 50mm diameter PVC sanitation hose - ideally Trident 101, 102 or similar, but the standard white PVC hose will do for now - to link the 'organ' (rigid PVC pipes forming a siphon break for black waters) to the 50mm valve on the skin fitting. I dropped in at General Marine today and they could not help with my request, and I could not find any online on NZ sites (easy to find overseas though, but having even a meter of that shipped will be pricey!).
Would anybody know a place who would stock that, or have an offcut lying around?
Thanks in advance,
ouk
Burnsco and Smart Marine carry the white stuff
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10 hours ago, Fogg said:
The minute you install anything that can create mains voltage it gets attention from the inspector. I think that’s the case even if you’re not connected to a marina. That was my experience recently.
This is correct. The only exception is if you have a little Inverter or Honda generator where the power outlets are 3 pin sockets. This then gets very grey if you connect to a hard wired system. By the way, none of the small generators, and only the top end (eg Victron, Mastervolt and maybe one or 2 others) inverters are AS/NZS3000 compliant, they are supposed to have the earth and neutral connected when in service.
This Off Grid supplier correctly recognises his obligations
https://powerandwater.co.nz/questions.html
If you want another example think about an event in a park where there is a big diesel generator humming away and cables running all over the place. That installation has to be carried out by a licensed electrician and he has to issue a COC (Certificate of Compliance) prior to powering up. There is no ROI (Record of Inspection) because the system is not connected to the mains. An ROI is issued whenever the first connection is made to the mains, eg an ROI is issued when a licensed inspector checks the electrical installation in a new house and makes the connection to the mains. The EWOF for boats/campervans is effectively an ROI, issued by the same licensed inspectors.
Sorry for the thread drift here...
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53 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:
I cannot see anything in the Act which stops me from working on my own personal generation system which never connects or supplies power to a third party. But I must follow the standard for anything over 50v.
Eg, I believe I can legally install a 12v/240v dc/ac inverter in my boat and put some power points in, so long as I follow the standard. And as long as the boat is never connected to the mains.
You need to read up about Prescribed Electrical Work from the act:
(c) is the key, as soon as you are considering a hard wired connection to a power supply (that could be the grid, a generator, inverter or any other source of AC power), then it has to be done by a licensed sparkie.
NZ and Australia are very restrictive about what a DIYer can do electrically.
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7 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:
My understanding is that power you generate for yourself and do not supply to anyone else is not subject to the ESA.
Assuming you are not buying the 12vDC supply from a 3rd party it would not be covered.
50V is the cutoff, above that and any installation (on or off grid) has to comply with Electrical Regulations and associated standards
DC installations on boats built after 2008 and 2014 have to comply with the respective revisions of AS3004.2
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8 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:
Only if the accident is related to a WorkPlace.
they appear to be taking an increasingly broad view of the definition of a Workplace.....
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25 minutes ago, DrWatson said:
So worksafe now has jurisdiction outside of employment situations? ie. private, non-comercial situations?
Absolutely, they are currently going after the owners of White Island over the eruption deaths, at a more local level Yacht Club haul out yards, even where solely volunteer operated, fall under Worksafe jurisdiction
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35 minutes ago, Psyche said:
I get that, colregs etc but as for specifically required safety gear or rules as per YNZ and especially in regard to the windows getting driven out of their frames, there appears to be no vessel structural or safety requirements for pleasure craft that are not heading to a foreign port.
Agree it is a bit of a mixed bag. MNZ recognise regional harbour masters setting specific rules about safety equipment eg Lifejacket and comms devices but then as I said they are reverting to a duty of care approach by saying vessels must be "seaworthy", eg see Auckland's Navigation Safety by law
https://at.govt.nz/boating-marine/harbour-rules-regulations/#bylaw
and
to my knowledge Europe is the only region, via its RCD and referenced ISO standards, to have specific rules about integrity of pleasure boats. USA has advisory standards from ABYC.
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19 minutes ago, Psyche said:
Any local can take any boat 30 miles of Cape Brett and experience the same conditions yet not have to comply with any safety category. If you go to the MNZ site and look at recreational requirements- there are none, only recommendations.
There does appear to be inconsistencies with regulations, a yacht heading offshore must be of a certain standard, if you are participating in a yacht race then you must comply with regulations. I presume that if an event resulted in loss of life then a recreational skipper could be prosecuted but its all a bit vague
What rules? I only see recommendations for private pleasure craft. Nav lights yes but where is the list of rules for the average yachtie on a coastal cruise? Most yachtsmen and women are responsible because they are aware of the risks but there does not seem to be any legal requirement for mullions on a trip to the Chathams let alone the Mokohinaus and we all know how atrocious the weather can be in the Gulf.
The basic rules MNZ refer to are the ColRegs per https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/recreational/rules/default.asp
It then reverts to a "Duty of Care" type approach for safe operation of the the vessel
https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/recreational/safety/default.asp
I know of a case a few years ago where a pleasure launch hit a beacon with a failed light on Auckland harbour at night with the result the boat was badly damaged and there were injuries. The skipper and crew member at the helm at the time were prosecuted by MNZ and received criminal convictions.
I have heard that MNZ's current approach is to pass any event they want prosecuted onto Worksafe, believing it is easier for Worksafe to obtain a conviction.
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18 hours ago, Black Panther said:
Exactly right. Whoever is the appropriate person at YNZ should ring MNZ and say " we need to discuss this because it's not working. It's not working to the extent that rational sane people are looking for ways to avoid it, in particular registering offshore".
The fact that at least a dozen NZ boats, including at least 2 catamarans that I know of, cleared out of NZ for Fiji with Cat 1 certs this winter indicates that the system is working. Your statement is more along the lines that you and some others don't like it, which is rather different.
Angus is the go to man at YNZ, mailto:angus@yachtingnz.org.nz
by the way, ref your "Hell Stewart Is from here is many times more dangerous than Fiji", you do remember that Essence foundered 50M off the Northland coast and a few other previous events, one notable one being the '94 Queens Birthday storm. My view, and not discounting the weather down south, is that the waters between NZ and the Sth Pacific need to be treated with just as much respect
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16 minutes ago, Psyche said:
Sailing to the Chatham's?
Chathams, Kermadecs, Raoul Is, Auckland Is, Campbell Is, are all within NZ. You do not have to clear out to any of those destinations. Probably not covered under Coastal Insurance policies, mine says within 200 nautical miles from North or South Islands
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1 hour ago, Black Panther said:
There are other options.
For starters an exclusion for skippers with over x no of offshore miles.
Another option, drop the whole thing, we are the only country I know of that does this and there is a strong argument that it has the opposite effect to what is desired.
Another option, let the skipper sign a declaration that he has the equipment on board.
Another option make it optional.
you will need to have that discussion with the Director - Maritime NZ as to what satisfies her (noting she has been with Worksafe in the past), per Maritime Transport Act 1994
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1 hour ago, Black Panther said:
There are other options.
yes, and it is not a good one - as Angus commented to me recently it would be a guy from Worksafe wearing overalls, safety boots and a lifejacket carrying a clipboard. How much judgement/discretion do you think would be given in those circumstances?
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1 hour ago, Fogg said:
Are these rules defined by YNZ or Maritime NZ?
How do they apply to them to offshore motorboats - a small number of long range motorboats in NZ also do the islands trips.
Maritime NZ have the overall safety requirement under section 21, they delegate the safety obligations for offshore boat safety to YNZ.
Yes, they also apply to offshore motorboats - they also need a Cat 1 cert, if you look in the back of the safety rules there is a specific section for motorboats including window coverings. I remember seeing a Riv in Fiji with perspex shutters on all windows.
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48 minutes ago, Black Panther said:
Interestingly most that have registered offshore to date have done it to avoid tax.
you cannot avoid importing a vessel with offshore registration, it all comes down to the period of time a vessel is in the country irrespective of where it is registered. If a visiting boat is in NZ,normally it has to leave before the 2 year temporary import waiver expires or GST and Duty become payable. I understand there is some flexibility from customs at present due to closed borders re tax, I know of several yachts sitting on the hard in the north which have exceeded the 2 years. However this is the exception
Same applies any where in the world
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4 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:
You can also import your boat here spend $50,000 refitting it, export it and not pay gst on that refit. (assuming it isn't already a gst nz paid boat).
you can only do this as a "temporary import", ie as given to overseas visitors
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if you want to read about registration, this should help send you to sleep
https://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1992/0089/latest/whole.html#DLM276622
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1 hour ago, GregW said:
LOL, I'd forgotten that one (used to work in a car wrecking yard - lots of good natured winding up between those who had GM's and Fords). Letsee......
For Old Retired Drivers; Finest Overall Racing Device; Cheap Hastily Engineered Vehicle; there was one for Pontiac too but I won't repeat that here. Lots of just Holden together references. Fun times.
Fix It Again Tony
Breaks My Wallet/Bring Money Withyou... 😁
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11 hours ago, Island Time said:
It would be interesting to know what hatch it was, 2 dogs or 4? It can’t have been a frame install failure, as a crew member closed it again. If it was a 2 dog hatch, maybe the deck could flex sufficiently for it to open, but if a 4, then I think that unlikely. Be interesting to ask that crew member, and also if he recalls any damage.
Looking at the old Boating NZ feature on Essence (I am a magazine hoarder) all the deck fittings are Lewmar so most likely a Lewmar hatch which I think would have 4 dogs
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One point the report skipped over is the likely cause of the forard hatch coming open. It can only be speculated how this happened, whether Essence twisted so much that it popped or the internal pressure caused the same. I was discussing Essence's loss with Peter Smith and he made the comment that he felt the standard plastic handles on your typical aluminium framed perspex hatches were woefully inadequate.
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25 minutes ago, SloopJohnB said:
There were no blackberrys growing the car park behind the shops in Panmure leading up to the engineering and Des's shed...but makes a good story.
this was before Des moved to behind the Panmure shops, he used to be in Morrin Rd in the early 60's
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59 minutes ago, Black Panther said:
FoMoCo?
Ford Motor Company
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20 minutes ago, waikiore said:
but it wasnt long till the Zephyrs under Tamaki yacht club were being ignored and they had a good fleet of Lasers.
Remarkable the resurgence the Zephyrs have subsequently had.
There was a story that FoMoCo heard about Des using the name Zephyr and sent someone to check him out, as they had the name registered. Apparently after the guy made his way thru the black berries into Des' shed in Morrin Rd he figured out Des' one man operation was not much of a threat to them 😄
Dinghy types - Pros & Cons
in MarineTalk
Posted
It's a bit like the options of do you want it 1. fast, 2. light and 3. cheap - you can have 2 of the 3
The Ocean Tender is rowable but Russell has always been clear that he optimised the design for motoring, which results in quite a different hull shape - a dinghy for rowing needs some of "rocker" in its fore and aft bottom shape, whereas a planing boat needs straight lines. All the old ally dinghies had planning hull shape, except for the diabolically unstable Parkercraft pram bow dinghy