CarpeDiem
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Posts posted by CarpeDiem
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7 minutes ago, chariot said:
Have you managed to stop at the Mercs
Tommorrow hopefully. Been a Northerly all week and we're in cruise mode. We'll leave TGA tomorrow morning and see if we get there.
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4 hours ago, Frank said:
Mmmm... looking at a few NZ outlets the 1103c is about $4900 , presumably a fair chunk of that is the Lithium battery, the 2hp Yamaha is $999. I get the bit about the cost saved in fuel etc but at nearly 5 x the cost its a big ask. I'm guessing prices will come down in time as they will for electric cars. With the brushless motor in the hub and a much reduced parts count overall the skin would look to be much cheaper to manufacture at scale.
A second battery retails for around $1600. The 1103c batteries are ~35ah Lithium Manganese, so at $1600 it's expensive for what it is.
So the motor is expensive no matter how you look at it. And adding that too a non electric ready cruising boat you have the added expense of charging, presumably overnight so your dinghy is ready for use the following day.
My Yamaha 3hp 2-stroke cost $1150 in 2016. Since then it's had exactly zero $ spent on servicing and maybe $200 on fuel, oil and carbon credits if that.
I can't find any numbers on the break even usage when compared to petrol. It simply doesn't stack up for me. I wish it did, I would love to make electric work for me financially or even be closer than it currently is. But $3000 is still a lot of money.
Either the price has to come down or regulation and fuel levies need to come into effect to drive adoption.
All that said there are some cheaper options out there than the Torqeedo. Especially so in the DIY space. I have worked out that I could get into a 85lbs thrust motor with a 40ah lithium battery pack for around $2000. If this petrol outboard of mine ever packs it in...
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1 hour ago, Fish said:
CAT 3 requires the main to be reefed to 50% of luff length.
This comes under the section preamble making it a suggestion.
Skippers should consult their sailmaker and designer
to arrive at the best sizes. The sizes given below
are maximum suggested sizes only and should be
followed only after due consultation.So get your sail maker/designer to document what your correct/optimal storm reefing point is before you change to the trysail.
Re pyrotechnic flares, the requirement stems from COLREGS. You wouldn't be the first (or last) to suggest that the UN updates COLREGS to allow EVDS devices.
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42 minutes ago, syohana said:
I don't see why a belt driven freezer would use much more power than an electric one. You could perhaps put a pulley on the propshaft but I've never seen it done. Remember there's no gearbox so there's no neutral, you can't run the motor without turning the prop. How would you run the fridge at anchor? Better to just use an electric freezer.
Engine driven fridges use an eutectic storage plate. The compressors are always an order of magnitude more powerful than the biggest 12v system. Thus they freeze holdover plates in under 20minutes when power is in abundance.
Run the engine once in the morning, freezer/fridge are done for the day and if you're not careful you've frozen your beer.
1 hour ago, harrytom said:I talking about belt driven freezer off motor.I should of been clearer.
With electric you'd get rid of the engine driven compressor and switch to an electric compressor (another thing you need to factor in).
If you stick with a holding plate, this requires you to get into the habit of leaving the fridge on all the time runing off the solar so that your holding plate stays charged, otherwise it will take a day or longer to draw down your holding plate at 60watts.
If you switch to an evaporator plate then you'd just run the fridge as a normal fridge but this of course requires modifying your existing fridge/freezer to get rid of the holding plate or at least fill it with expanding foam.
Either way, all those engine driven things need to be taken into consideration. Eg watermaker.
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38 minutes ago, syohana said:
Your diesel is about 20hp at 2200 RPM if it was producing maximum torque but I suspect that your propeller is not big enough for it to produce maximum torque at that RPM. Your 29hp diesel may never actually put more than 10hp into the water. Quite likely the propeller was specified for the original ~10hp motor the boat had when it was new so the prop isn't capable of delivering much more than 10hp considering that your new motor runs at the same RPM as the old one.
She has had a Volvo 30hp engine since new. First one was a 30hp Volvo 2003. We replaced it with the 29hp D1-30.
The propellor is also Volvo and we took that off the old saildrive system but Volvo signed off on it being the correct size for the boat/engine.
Wow, only 10hp? That surprises me.
Thanks - food for thought.
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1 hour ago, syohana said:
Can't imagine why you would need a 20kw genset, that would be very heavy and bulky.
We were told to over spec the generator so it was never running at full output? It was described as a range extender and battery charger. I could see it only being used a few times a year. However, if we had gone down that path we'd also have removed the Lpg and gone full electric cooking and water heating so it would of been a bit more than just a range extender on long cruises.
20kw genny was matched to a 15kw motor.
1 hour ago, syohana said:How long and heavy is your yacht (displacement tonnes NOT registered tonnage which has more to do with the amount of wine barrels you can carry)? We don't know whether you actually need 29hp or whether you use 60% of that power just to make more waves after you already reached hull speed? Do you ever run your diesel flat out pedal to the metal or are you really only using half or quarter of those horse power? Do you want to motor into strong headwinds and big seas or are you a gentleman who doesn't go to windward?
Lwl is 10m. Weight is 5200kg. We cruise at 6.2knots which is 2200rpm. If we take the engine to ~2800rpm we hit Hull speed at ~7.1knots. At that point we have 300rpm in reserve, the engine maxes out at 3100rpm iirc but we don't go there.
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Thanks wheels, that's the missing information I needed.
I will take the stabiliser back and swap it for a biocide.
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Lots of good information thanks.
Re the pricing, my D1-30 Volvo was $20k. It was a drop in replacement including saildrive. The electric set up was going to be $30k for parts and we had unknown labour and building costs to modify cabinets and make custom mounts etc, electrician costs were extra. It was recommended we go to a shaft drive which required Hull modifications. I didn't see it happening for less than $40k when all was said and done.
So it was $20k more. In diesel/maintenance costs that is probably around 10yrs projected. If done at todays prices it's 20 years but I accept that the levies on diesel will go up.
Finally our use cases didn't fit without a 20kw generator which threw the cost through the roof. That old priority called work gets in the way of being able to just float off Cape Brett for 24hrs waiting for the wind cause you and the crew need to get the boat home for work commitments. Year on year we've found ourselves becalmed and unable to sail for a long period. Eg, this year we spent 14hrs motoring home after Coastal Classic and 8 hours motoring home after BOI race week. The alternative is everyone misses work for an extra day or we leave the boat at the extra expense of going up to collect it and missing more racing cause the boat isn't home.
So I get what you're saying about "just change the way you use the boat" but for a like-for-like replacement it seems that electric on a monohull still isn't there without a diesel generator?
So that was my experience, I realise it won't be everyone's but I just couldn't justify the expense to be able to have a like for like replacement and continue to use the boat the way we currently do. Something needed to give.
Some questions.
For replacing a 20kw (29hp) diesel what sized motor would you recommend? (We were recommended 15kw to be able to motor at our current speed of 6.5knots which is below Hull speed)
Why are some Lithium batteries illegal on NZ boats? Which laws are they breaking and how?
These boats you have being motored all day and coming back with batteries nearly full, how many kW of solar do they have? What size boats?
Are you aware of drop in replacements for sail drives? (everyone seems to want you to switch to a shaft).
Thanks
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16 minutes ago, syohana said:
This would be a good opportunity to switch to electric propulsion, save you the problem of getting that old lump back in.
We've got some nice lightweight 5kw brushless units under development, you can lift them in by hand!
I am interested to know how this technology has progressed and how it compares realistically now. When we replaced our Volvo 29hp 2 years ago, the cost of batteries/motor and the most efficient diesel generator was more than a replacement engine and we still needed to buy a sail drive.
The generators came in on paper a good few percentage points more efficient than the new engine which I liked.
But unless we committed to being a full time race boat out of and back to marina power only and made sure we never raced on a day with light winds that we'd need to retire, and find ourselves too far from home, I couldn't make electric cost effective once factoring in the diesel genny costs.
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42 minutes ago, Fogg said:
I put in shock dose of 1L into my 250L tank at start of season. Thereafter 100ml every time I refuel as a maintenance dose. So far so good.
A shock dose of what?
I got some of this, but it's not a biocide. It's seems to just be for treating diesel in storage. I am just conscious that all of the diesel in my tank is over 6 months old.
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/diesel-fuel-stabiliser
- Prevents fuel from going stale when not used for up to 12 months
- Prevents gum, sediments and polymer formations in the fuel
- 2.5 times more economical than current fuel stabilisers
- Stabilises fuel quality for improved economy and performance
- Extends the life of fuel injectors, pumps and diesel catalysts
- Optimised for diesel fuel
- Prevents fuel system corrosion
- Inhibits the tendency of Biodiesel to react with oxygen, thereby prolonging its shelf life
- Economical when compared to replacing old or stale fuel.
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What's the recommendation with Diesel Stabilisation on yachts?
We generally put in 20L every 2-4 months. Which gives us about 30L in the tank.
But after CC (October) we put in 60L at Russell and have not added any since.
Thanks
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1 hour ago, alibaba said:
Common problem I believe. Intermittent start on button push on Yanmar 3GM.
I've traced wiring and I already see a solenoid fitted. I by-passed the start button with a temporary switch and got starting first time every time, therefore likely the push button has corroded contacts.
To replace it is around $110, but it is only an intermittent switch. Jaycar sell them for about 22 bucks.
I can't find the characteristics of the switch though, so does anyone know how much current goes through such a switch?
cheers
Solenoid energizing coils don't take an enormous amount, I suggest looking at the model of solenoid and working backwards from there.
These are rated at 50A there's no way it be that. I have one of these mounted in the engine bay to start a 29hp Volvo if the magic black box ever fails.
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Vhf antenna with a basic splitter.
Just using a cheap as 4 speaker Supercheap Auto stereo.
Maybe try connecting your vhf antenna cable directly to the stereo? If that works replace your splitter.
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5 hours ago, splat said:
I see in 3.06 Cat 2 and 3 are now every 2 years. I thought Cat 2 was every three years?
Cat 3 has always been every 2 years. I can't imagine Cat 2 would of been more but never had Cat 2.
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12 hours ago, Clipper said:
I have anchor winch cables and nav light wires i need to replace, but they are well glued into a conduit by expanding foam of some kind, presumably to stop leaks.
Any ideas on how to remove them?
Depending on access (and how much mess you want to make) I have succeeded at breaking expanding foam away with a high powered water blaster. A bit like the way drains get unblocked.
I can supply popcorn and beer
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34 minutes ago, vic008 said:
Have the pair of 38 hoses going above the WL up to the nylon (Hansen?) inverted U thingy, but instead of the wee vent thingy, it tees into the vent hose from the holding tank,leading outboard. Instead, can I get the wee vent for the top of the U and separate the 2 , and no smell?
Get a "Carbon Activated Air Filter" from Burnsco and put it on the hose that goes outside. Better still get rid of the holding tank, the toilet, all that stinky plumbing, those two hull fittings and instead put in a composting toilet
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After the Auckland Tauranga race we've taken some leave and have 9 days to get back to Auckland.
Would like to spend 2-3 maybe 4 days getting up to Great Barrier. Have heard the Mercs are spectacular.
Thoughts on places to stop please?
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1 hour ago, harrytom said:
The boundary seems to be a fast,you can use it to your advantage as did etnz just after the start yesterday,LR was forced to let them out but my way of thinking ,you got in to that position you work out how to get out of that situation.
Would of thought by deliberately sailing to the boundary and forcing LR to give room ,etnz should of coped a penalty.
It's just like any boundary/obstruction in our normal slow racing. The boat closest to the obstruction is entitled to room to tack, the other boat can choose to tack or go behind them. Rule 21 iirc??!? And yes when normal slow racing you can still use this to your advantage.
Just FYI, the normal slow rules are upwind only and boat calling for room-to-tack must be close-hauled. But for AC they have modified it to include downwind.
The obstruction can also be a 3rd boat on Starboard - making for some fun
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2 hours ago, bigal.nz said:
Anyone have any plans to put Starlink on there boat? It should really start to hurt offerings from Iridium like the Go.
Also would almost seem pointless to have a Sat TV dome at $5,000 when you can just stream everything over Starlink (although not subscription fee for Freeview).
Definitely if and when it's viable and cost effective. But that if is a pretty big if, and the when could be a long time
and cost-effective is very subjective.
Some thoughts/ramblings...
They are years and years and years away from having a full link up for remote places. Just because you can see a cluster from the middle of the pacific doesn't mean it can see an uplink station or even another station to bounce through. There will not be any ground link lasers in the south pacific cause - you know - there is no ground.
The Antenna's will need to be quite sophisticated and thus expensive to be able to track to the satellites from a boat that's rocking back and forth at an anchorage, let alone in an ocean swell. It will take quite a bit of power, complex computery wizardry stuff with maybe one of those gyro thingos to keep the transceiver on point. Antennas will probably end up costing as much and being as large as the current iSailor/inmarsat/viasat dishes.
The current billing model is that you are "locked" to a "cell" - a geographical area - admittedly a pretty big geographical area in relation to the North Island, but not in relation to the south pacific - so if you want to be able to move between cells, I expect the price to shoot up.
If you are actually moving you use more radio spectrum than if you are stationary, so this costs more from a spectrum licensing perspective and drives the cost up.
I don't see it being a $99/month solution for the boat and I don't see the equipment being as cheap as the antenna you'd install on a fixed residential location.
All that said I have signed up for the Beta
they say late 2021 for Auckland ... exciting times ahead!
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1 hour ago, vesper1 said:
Having to replace a Main Halyard 12mm that has some sort of Hi spec core its done 20 years and come to the end of its life. But there seems quite a few choices and prices. Are there any riggers out there can give me direction I dont want super high spec but I also enjoy sailing and dont want to be revisiting the mast to retension the halyard etc.
You can go much smaller than 12mm but you are going to be limited by the size and working load of your clutch.
At the highend you can do end-to-end splicing of sk99. I did a 4 to 5 to 6 to 8 to 10 so we had 10 at the clutch and 4mm up most of the mast. The 4mm is 3000kg breaking load - which is rediculous unless you regularly hoist medium sized sedans up your rig.
NB: I recommend getting this professionally done if it is even remotely possible that you'd hoist a person up the mast on it.
SK99 is going to give you the best performance but at the highest price point.
Vectran is a great choice for a cruiser/racer at a slightly lower price point than SK99.
This is imho an excellent halyard:
https://chainsropesandanchors.co.nz/Rope-Cordage/Yacht-halyard/10mm-Vectran-Cored-Racing-Braid
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2 hours ago, Island Time said:
If you have no shore power lead, or are protected with a working galvanic isolator or isolating transformer, and you still have corrosion issues, the problem is on your boat as there is only one connection to the shore (the water), not a circuit.
Can you get stray current corrosion from other boats if you're not connected to shore power and don't have a DC system?
Or are you saying that if you're not connected to Shore power then any stray current corrosion is due to your DC system.
I understood that you had to be either connected to the shore power, and/OR have a faulty DC system...
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If you're plugged into the Marina then you're 50% of the cause
I have a Ref Electrode I am happy to loan out - but sounds like you're well past that point...
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So I thought this would be a fairly easy thing to Google-Fu - turns out my fu isn't.
If I am running the engine at 1800rpm in neutral am I using less, or the same amount of fuel that I would be if the prop is engaged?
If the answer is less then it must stand that I use more fuel
When the alternator is outputting 100amps; than
When the alternator is outputting 5 amps
Which is really getting to the root of my question, which is, does my alternator use up available kW if the engine is running anyway, or is the kW already there and just disappearing as heat/sound.
I would think it does, but the reason I am asking is because I do not notice a decrease in engine revs when the alternator kicks in at 100amps and the engine is already doing 1800rpm.
I would expect to notice 1.2kW on a 20kW engine.
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3 hours ago, harrytom said:
Yet I read that unlike conventual rules you can alter course as far 90 degrees.
3 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:The 90 degree rule is for bearing away. Not luffing. And only applies if the port tack boat is dipping you.
Now that I have gone and looked up the 36th AC rules. There is no 90 degree rule like in the 35th AC. It's now a proper course restriction.
Electronic Visual Distress Signals (EVDS) aka electronic flares
in MarineTalk
Posted
Which one? I suspect this is a marketing mistake.
EVDS are not recognised by the treaty so can't be a SOLAS certified replacement for flares.