CarpeDiem
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Posts posted by CarpeDiem
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7 hours ago, Guest said:
They are Li ion transfer but not Li-Ion & considerably safer.
They are Lithium-ion. They have a Iron Phosphate cathode and a graphite anode - Li-ions move through the electrolyte from the cathode to the anode and vice versa. That's the definition of a Li-ion battery - there's a lot of misconception that LiFePO4 are not Li-ion batteries mainly cause people don't want the chemistry associated with the less safe variants.
They are considerably safer than other Li-ion chemistries, but they are not the safest. This honor, (currently), goes to LTO (Lithium Titanate Oxide) - LTO isn't really suitable for boat retrofit setups because of the voltage range so we don't see it much - a lot of the audio guys, you know those ones that drive around blasting out loud music for 5 seconds at 2am are using LTO - some of those systems draw 1000amps...
Sparky, the POAL electric tug, uses LTO cells - the brand is Toshiba SCIB - some European cars now use LTO cells as the starter battery (BMW and Mercedes are two I know of) the battery will outlast the car...
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25 minutes ago, K4309 said:
For a budget, DIY lithium install I was looking at about $2,500 - $3,000 for the same usable amp hours (100-150 A/h Li compared with 300A/h L-C at 50% DoD).
According to the spec sheet on those batteries you can get 1000 cycles by taking them to 100% dod.
As a weekend warrior, assuming one is sailing every weekend, that would be 10 years... at 100% DOD... which is very impressive, on paper...
However the spec sheet does not say what the impact on DOD has on capacity. Generally using a LA battery at 50% DoD will reduce the useable capacity, so your 50% becomes smaller and smaller over time and this happens much quicker than it does for a Li-ion battery.
28 minutes ago, K4309 said:No sulphation so tolerant of Partial State of Charge. i.e. you can leave them half charged, which is very common on boats with a mix of alternator and solar.
What I have read on these doesn't say, no sulphation, rather it says that sulphation due to psoc is minimized. Would be interesting to see some real world results.
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30 minutes ago, Guest said:
Yep, but through an argofet isolator. (Splitter). So same benefit of there always being a load. Also as 4s2p they don’t charge at the same rate. In theory they should but inherent variables of individual cells and then parallel banks make it unlikely. Victron alarm can be set to a level to warn you when approaching once you get to know their behaviour . If you want “hands off” idiot proof, you will pay dearly.
Not saying my choice is the ideal budget setup, but I am comfortable with it’s requirements and it’s a vast improvement over the FLA’s especially in the amount of power useable and replenishable quickly.
Nice setup - great to see the 2p configuration, awesome to see the insulation between the EVE cells, and great to see that you have compression! This is a smoking good DIY build!
What BMS are you using? What isolator are you using? Separate charge and load busses?
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3 minutes ago, K4309 said:
Do those argofets have diodes in them? Is the much of a voltage drop over them? And do you need to adjust your alternator output voltage to account for the voltage drop? (assume that is easy if you have a smart regulator).
I was looking at argofets but was told they were a bit old tech and the voltage drop was sub-optimal. Noting that old tech is normally bomb-proof tech in my view. Nothing wrong with it if you understand it.
Argofet is a Victron brand name - they use MOSFETs internally, all MOSFETs, like all electronics induce a voltage drop. These units suffer between 0.03v and 0.01v drop depending on the current and the units rated capacity.
If you consider that something invented in 1959 makes it old-tech then I guess that they are old-tech - but you will find them in the power supply of pretty much every modern day piece of electronics...
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1 hour ago, K4309 said:
Did anyone get the actual details on how this is supposed to work? I may have missed it.
I didn't watch the video. The principle is relatively straight forward but requires an understanding of charge discharge profiles...
1. Lead acid rests at ~12.8v and floats at ~13.2v
2. LFP rests at 13.32v (there is no float for lfp)
So when in parallel, without any load, the LFP is float charging the LA.
As the load comes on the LFP will provide the power to the load.
Once the lfp goes below the LA float voltage, power will be taken from the LA, but the amount of energy between 12.8v and 13.2v is insignificant and just surface charge. So the lfp will still provide the bulk of the power. But now the LA is no longer floating.
Once the lfp reaches around 12.8v more power will be drawn from the LA but it still won't be as much as what's being provided by the lfp. But now the LA is starting to work.
When the system reaches 12.2v the lfp has supplied ~90% of its capacity and LA has supplied 30% of its.
Nows probably time to stop, but if you kept going, eventually the LFP would cut out due to low voltage, and you could keep taking the LA all the way down to 9.6v... (if you dared).
Now comes the recharge...
Your charging system starts throwing power at both batteries. The voltage will rise gradually and the Li will be held back from accepting charge by the internal resistance of the LA.
Eventually the charge voltage will reach 14.2v (or 14.1v depending on how conservative you want to be) this will be achieved only when enough Watts have been jammed back into the LA... Once this voltage is reached the lithium will sense High Voltage and the high voltage disconnect will kick in.
The lithium is now disconnected. And the charging source can continue to push the LA battery to absorbtion voltage (14.4v or 14.7v). Once the charger finishes it goes into float mode @13.2v and the Li detects that the high voltage condition is gone and reconnects
The cycle starts all over again...
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There's nothing unsafe with doing this (unless your BMS karks it).
There's a few gotchas:
You need a programable BMS that will switch off the Lithium-ion battery or it will overcharge... Usually one would program it for 3.55v/cell but you could be more conservative.
This means that you won't get full capacity.
Because you are switching off at 3.55v, never getting into the CV phase of the charge cycle and not immediately putting load on the battery, you will create a memory effect in the Li and the addional capacity will eventually be locked out.
Once you start taking capacity out of the LA, which realistically will happen once you have used 40% capacity of the Li-ion you need to fully charge the LA. Yes there's some argument here for lead carbon and it's better psoc resistance to sulphation.
Unicorn benefits of LC aside, to keep your LA in good shape it needs to go though the full charging cycle so now you are not benefitting from the advantage of fast charging which comes with Li.
If you just want to add capacity to your existing LA bank and live with the normal LA charging and battery life constraints of LA then this is a OK solution to achieve that.
The "experts" will tell you "no way". The standards say don't do it. But there are plenty of people doing it...
There's really no right or wrong way to do Li-ion. There's just safe or unsafe... And so long as you choose safe, then it's just pros and cons of the magnitude of options...
I think if I did this, I would want a redundant BMS to ensure I could shut off the charge bus. Cause if it doesn't shut it off you run the risk of a thermal runaway. And straight away I have blown the $$ I was going to save...
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4 hours ago, Frank said:
I'm curious as to why you cant cut and polish LPU's, I saw a DIY re-spray recently with a flawless finish, achieved by cutting and polishing. The owner said It was an automotive 2 part (2K ?) lacquer but not a marine product as such. Do we have any paint experts who can comment on the difference ? If you cant cut n polish a marine LPU then presumably the chemistry is different to automotive 2K PU.
Polyester LPUs cure with a separation. A very thin layer sets up at the top with the clear solids protecting the pigment underneath.
It's like a built-in clearcoat.
If you need to touch it up you have to take the whole panel back. It's impossible to just do a section. If you want to buff a section, you'll just rip off the top gloss layer.
Carpe Diem is painted with a metallic fleck 2k polyester lpu used on cars. It's absolutely the worst paint ever for a boat. A fender rubs through the top coat it's screwed, a dinghy comes up along side, screwed again. Coastguard comes along side to uplift a injured crew member, screwed again! Wish I knew what I know now when the boat was painted...
Look at silver paint on the bow in this photo... https://livesaildie.photoshelter.com/image?&_bqG=48&_bqH=eJwzyDIqKE71CQiOcK7KSXX1j0rM9Q4uiUr2cyq2MjQ1tjI0MABhIOkZ7xLsbBuZWJJarAZmxzv6udiWANmhwa5B8Z4utqEgddmh8SbF5r7F7iGhavGOziG2xamJRckZAIfEH9M-&GI_ID=
The anchor had fallen off the bow roller putting a scratch in the hull. That was done professionally by the paint team at pier 21 who also painted the whole boat in the shed. At the time it didn't look that bad, you could see they had repainted it but as the paint cured over the next month it set up like that. You can also see a much bigger repair amidships at the waterline, that was a touch up that was required after rubbing for too long on the Westhaven fuel dock fenders... I hate that paint
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Pin 7 on ConnC of the mdi is not an ignition signal. You can pick up an ignition signal from the miltilink conn which the tachometer connects to.
Pin 7 of ConnC is a dual purpose pin:
1. The mdi momentarily applies battery voltage to this pin to excite the alternator just after the engine starts;
2. The mdi then uses this pin to periodically sense the alternator output voltage and trigger a warning on the canbus if the voltage is outside a threshold (13.1v - 14.9v iirc).
The stock alternators have a secondary small rectifier on the D+ for the purpose of isolating the B+ and detecting if the alternator is running.
You could try connecting pin7 to b+ but I have no idea if that will create a parasitic load on your battery or if it will result in the mdi bitching that the voltage is high when it shouldn't be... e.g., before the engine starts.
Adding an oil pressure switch is an interesting hack. The fact that you have even discovered this as an option leads me to believe that their could be issues with simply holding pin7 at 13.1v+...
I feel compelled to add that the stock 115a alternators are incredibly excellent units with very capable regulators. They have built in remote voltage and temperature sensors and can run at full output for considerable lengths of time before backing off due to temperature.
I suspect that you have well and truly weighed anchor and the ship has now set sail but a considerably better option, for anyone else reading this, is the VRC-200 from Nordkyn Design https://nordkyndesign.com/product/nordkyn-electronics-vrc-200-charge-reference-controller/
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4 hours ago, Ex Machina said:
Numbers not looking great this close to the start .
We're out this year. Too many crew (including myself) have had sea survival expire.
I don't understand why squadron can do a race to three kings @ cat 2 with no sea survival requirement. Mhyc can do cc around the not insignificant Cape Brett rounding, where many a boat has come unstuck, without the need for a liferaft or dinghy at cat 3-, and rayc needs a cat 3+, which is pretty much the same as a cat 1 without the out-of-water inspection, for going around corromandle...
There is much inconsistency from YNZ. I cannot help but feel if that if the requirements were aligned there would be more participation by the virtue of there being more certified boats and people.
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1 hour ago, Addem said:
I fear it is too late and too difficult. Would the HCl dissolve the concretion or just loosen it? Then I'd have to find a way of getting it out.
I've come up with a plan to lay a new pipe but now have to think about whether to leave the old in situ or get it out somehow. That waste pipe is hard to work with in the confined space.
If I leave it there the pong will stay for long. If I get it out In pieces it'll spill its load all through the bilge (under said floor).
No good options really. A case of prevention being waaaayyyyyyy better than cure.
It will disolve it. Anything that doesn't disolve, will appear as a powdery substance in the acid.
It won't be chunky unless someone has flushed large objects down the toilet? Eg coins or fishing sinkers...
Where does the pipe go to? I would expect the acid to end up there... You could then neutralize it with quantious amounts of sodium hydroxide..
You really want the acid soaking the inside of the pipe so the pipe is submerged.
Can you get to each end?
Another option would be to connect a pump and cycle the cleaning mixture round and round then you can go with a much lower concentration.
Just to be clear, if going with a high concentration you need to have ppe - it will fizz, spit and gas at you. If you have any doubt handling or mixing hcl then I suggest buying Rydlyme. The low concentration makes it safe to handle, but you'll need the recirculation method...
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I recently bought a couple of these Harken Quattro winches.
The plan was to replace our runner winches with these. We use the leeward runner winch for trimming the kite sheet, so the idea was we could use the speed ring and have a better trimming experience.
Has anyone had experience with these types of winches?
Is it possible to easily move from the speed ring to the top drum?
If you're on the speed ring can you use the self tailer?
Can you lock it off or do you have to hang onto the line or have a deck jammer?
Can't find any info on the net for these.
Thanks.
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HCl is also great for cleaning rust off tools.
This is after 3 minutes soaking.
Using baking soda to neutralize the acid. Then I spray it down with wd40 and rinse and repeat next time it's rusty...
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12 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:
HCl will eat up metal parts such as aluminum, galvanized steel, nickel or other active metals - don't use it on your engine.
I will modify this to say it is damn good at cleaning up corroded/blocked exhaust mixers - but take the exhaust mixer off and drop it in a bucket at ~20% - 25% concentration.
Don't run/flush the HCl through your salt water cooling system.
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27 minutes ago, K4309 said:
PS, I won a bottle of Salt Away and been wondering what to do with it. I don't actually understand what chemical it is or how it works. How would that go pouring a bit down the loo every time I leave the boat?
I've been told in no uncertain terms not to use it on the outboard for flushing. Apparently it's corrosive to aluminium and leaves a coating(?)
Sulphuric Acid with some detergent mixed in.
It's water content disolves the salt.
It's such a low concentration it won't damage your outboard.
You could flush your loo with it and leave it sitting in the pipes the sulphuric acid will help break down any minerals.
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HCl (Hydrochloric Acid). Easily obtained from any swimming pool shop about $45 for a 33% solution. Mix it with water to get a 10% concentration (NB add the acid to the water) or just go hard out and pour in @33% - stand back, wear a mask, eye protection, gloves - be well ventilated.
HCl is the active ingredient in Rydelime.
The active ingredient in barnacle buster is phosphoric acid.
HCl will eat up metal parts such as aluminum, galvanized steel, nickel or other active metals - don't use it on your engine.
Phosphoric Acid is more mild acting on scale and mineral deposits (so takes longer and you need more) but is fine on active metals. (excl zinc anodes - these will disappear within seconds)
Phosphoric Acid is much harder to get hold of. I have not been able to find a consumer friendly source, so I bought barnacle buster... and yes it is moonbeams expensive.
You could also use good old regular Coke. None of that sugar free stuff tho
But it will take a lot longer.
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5 minutes ago, LE Bb said:
google fosters nz homer elbow catch
Perfect, thank you!
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I have seen some boats with finger holes in the floorboards that when you stick your finger in it there's a clasp/lever that releases the floorboard, allowing the board to be lifted.
Can anyone please link me to the mechanism that's under the floorboard?
Thanks
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Westlake Boys’ High School teacher killed during Coastal Classic yacht race
He taught all of my 4 children. I am lost for words. Such a tragedy.
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I see the start has been moved to Narrowneck vacinity and the times have been pushed back.
https://www.coastalclassic.co.nz/_files/ugd/4c9433_4f838310cb564f319654b12cd91a69a5.pdf
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27 minutes ago, K4309 said:
Just to clarify, you can swim at Mission Bay, and will be able to swim at Kohi and St Helliers in 40 mins (5pm), but is yacht racing (where you don't put your head underwater) still cancelled?
You can go yacht racing at both Kohi and St Helliers.
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8 minutes ago, waikiore said:
Yes they always have after a big rain period, when they let it out the old Orakei line, probably safer there over the last two weeks whilst blocked as most was being diverted to Beaumont street new outlet and the other new one west of the harbour bridge.
It's obviously the modeling and testing coming in to play at these sites.
Cause a week ago everything was black all day long. Right now Mission Bay is safe. And Kohi/St Helliers are getting safer. With Kohi and St Helliers marked as Safe from 5pm today.
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53 minutes ago, waikiore said:
I still believe that multiple locations are being modelled, as opposed to tested-havent seen the summer helicopters yet!
That would be correct.
The modeling has been in place for many years. It was, several years ago tested and independently verified at being around 90% accurate.
Watercare have stated that they are doing tests from multiple locations at multiple depths and they have also deployed bags of oysters that will be tested for comtaniments and heavy metals.
Point is that they are testing...
I have noticed on the safetoswim site that mission bay/st heliers has been switching from safe to unsafe frequently during this sh*t storm.
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Just got lifted and cleaned at the Floating Dock, the operator said the water is in the worst state he has seen it in the 5+ years he has been operating the dock.
At the end of each day he is going home itching and scratching which has never happened to him before.
SALT divers were supposed be cleaning 40+ boats at Westhaven today, but they aren't getting in the water, they have set up shop at Izzy for those that need a clean before Coastal.
With the harbour being tested everyday at multiple locations and different depths, it will be interesting to see how long a gazillion liters of black and grey water takes to flush out of the Waitematā...
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37 minutes ago, ex Elly said:
Apparently no Squadron races this week or next.
Will the Coastal Classic still go ahead?
RAYC have moved their start this weekend. No reason why CC couldn't do the same if they needed to.
There's significantly less chance of a mob or of gear going overboard while just transiting through the zone...
Cancel your Great Barrier plans this Summer
in MarineTalk
Posted
Gutted. Was hoping to get to Port Fitzroy for our first time this summer.
Edit:
) Port Fitzroy Permit Exempt Anchoring Zone: means the area contained
within the marine waters of Port Fitzroy, east of a line between Kotuku Point
and Mt. Overlook headland of Kaikōura Island /Selwyn Island, and east of a
line between the Man of War Passage and Governor Pass.
Where is that?