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Island Time

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Posts posted by Island Time

  1. a frigate is generally regarded as the smallest vessel all weather all ocean capable. The Navy, like all of our very limited Armed Forces, are there to play our part internationally, and provide resources for Natural disasters.

    The ChCH earthquake and Cyclone Gabriel are classic examples - you want to discuss this with the people of Napier and East cape about what the defense forces did for them ? The Government has virtually no other resources to use.

    Our Defense forces are bleeding experienced people as they are so under resourced. The resource we have is supposed to complement those of our close defense partners, as we can not expect a country of 5.5 mil to have complete modern defense capabilities.

    The world is more unstable now than for some time, it's not the time to run down the military IMO.

    Think about history - Brittan's defense was "unnecessary" according to many before the Napoleonic wars, again in 1913, again in early 1940's - and in all cases took time to rebuild. Other countries have similar examples. Are we not supposed to learn from history?

    • Upvote 5
  2. 30 minutes ago, Guest said:

    Exactly what is the wording on  Aus/Nz std? Meaning HV/LW audible warning at a cellular level Or// at a battery level? Not so subtle electrical  diff. Obviously cellular is better imo.

    Pretty easy to add a BMV712 and get an audible warning. Also utilise mid point take off. And if you dont like the 712 volume (low) use the relay with a louder one. Or, the offender at a cellar level is easily identified &  monitored with a voltage sensitive  configurable relay to a piezo. $20. Same cell wins the race in both batteries every time, not by much. But its really consistent thanks to Mr Ohm  and the chemistry/ manufacture QC. If a different cell Sh*ts itself then you are relying on battery monitor setting audible warning.  Having a switching BMS would be preferable to putting one on each cell. (VSR)

    Not hard to run some tests with bms cutting off charge /discharge,  check battery Voltage and allow delta for BMV setting  for alarm. Of course this means a battery monitor with relay & bms for each battery . Still more economical than Rec, electrodacus etc and contactors x N.  Don't see how they can demand it be auto.

    Personally I prefer simplicity, and do the switching myself. Point is, does this level meet the std? I am not doing it for a job, DIY personal, so it doesn't matter i guess. 

    Batteries= cells in series with own BMS.   Bank = paralleled batteries output same voltage, twice Ahrs. (only for the confused)

     

     

     

    Both voltage and temp at cell level;

    "(b) Each lithium ion battery shall be provided with a battery management safety system (BMS) either integrated into a battery pack or as a separate component located adjacent to the battery. The BMS shall continuously monitor the voltage and temperature of each cell in the battery.

    (c) All charging sources shall be automatically disconnected by the BMS when voltage exceeds the manufacturer’s recommended maximum.

    (d) All connected load shall be automatically disconnected by the BMS when the voltage falls below the manufacturer’s recommended minimum.

    (e) The battery shall be automatically disconnected by the BMS from all connected load and all charging sources when temperature exceeds the manufacturer’s specified maximum.

    (f) The BMS shall provide an audible and visual alarm at the normal vessel operating position before a disconnection event occurs."

    • Upvote 2
  3. 2 hours ago, Ex Machina said:

    Be careful of quoting installs that don't meet ABYC or AUS/NZS regs. The stumbling block for most drop ins is that they must have both visual and auto warnings before switching off the batts. Bluetooth units can't do this - or at least any Ive seen. If you look for a BMS with CAN bus (or any external coms) then you can comply...

  4. Any time. Sometimes even newish ones - I had one brand new one that looked fine, but wasn't - the rubber, I think, was moving around the metal inner it's mounted on, but only under load....

    • Upvote 1
  5. Electrical fires are one of the most common causes of fire on vessels like ours. Have a plan - You MUST be able to turn off the batteries, or the fire may re-ignite. Extinguishers in service and at multiple locations. 1/Shut off batts. 2/Shut off air and fuel 3/ use fire fighting systems, installed or hand held. Hopefully all this while another crew member issues a mayday, and another gets the raft ready... 

    My maritime fire fighting course just confirmed that you are unlikely to control a serious fire - get ready to get off!!

    Oh, and if you have a race yacht and it's a lithium battery fire (won't be if it's LiFePo4!), get off!!

    • Upvote 4
  6. I’m with Nautical insurance, underwriter is vero. Island Time is Sept 88. So I got the request for “survey”. Read the request carefully. The broker (Nautical) sent the forms with the policy renewal. It’s NOT a real survey, and did not require out of water. It’s a condition report, and can be done by a boat builder, surveyor, (and maybe some others). I got a mate who’s a boat builder to complete it for me. It did NOT ask for a gas cert ( which would be a problem) just that it was in good order and complies with nz regs. Which it did at time of install (but not with current version - that’s ok, the gas regs are not retrospective) . Completed in an hour and accepted by Nautical. No real issue here.

    • Upvote 4
  7. What others have said here is good. Please take this as intended - to help show what's required. Cat one is expensive - not in itself, (inspection is $115) but in preparing a yacht properly for Blue Water. That being said there is little I wouldn't do that is in the regs before leaving 

    Read this stuff..

    https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/sites/default/files/2022-03/YAC240587 YachtingNZ Safety Regulations - Mar2022 - ONLINE_0.pdf

    https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/sites/default/files/2018-10/Safety Inspectors Checklist.pdf

    It will give you some idea. Most people (almost all) severely underestimate the time and effort required to do this. You may need to take an experienced crew member with you on your first passage. If you can find a boat that has recently been in cat one, that has great benefits! 

    • Like 1
    • Upvote 1
  8. So it's possible that the threads are galled. If so, they need to be replaced. So;

    Support the rig with a halyard. Take the rigging screws off completely, clean, inspect and if ok lubricate and ensure they are free to move by hand when unloaded. If all that is ok, re-install...

    • Like 2
    • Upvote 1
  9. Boom Brakes properly used slow the boom in a gybe, without the main doing so - but it's hard to find a boom brake (IMO the best one is the dutchman boom brake) for larger mainsails - and it loads the boom highly at the kicker fitting...

    • Like 1
  10. 1 hour ago, Clipper said:

    Cool. Just ordered a roll. Ive heard great things - any advice on how to use?

     

    Full Instructions are here https://marinehowto.com/bed-it-tape/ but basically clean the area to be used, and put it on the surface. Bolt/screw down the hardware and trim of the excess that squeezes out. You may have to do the trim bit again a few weeks later. That's it - as bolted down, it squeezes out and seals around fastenings, although I tend to put some around the top of bolts and countersinks as well.  

    • Upvote 1
  11. 7 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

    Sorry IT.

    The citations are for the Maritime Act, specifically rule 40.

    Rule 40 does not apply to pleasure craft.  It applies to commercial craft in survey. 

    If you can show me a citation that applies to pleasure craft I will get off my soap box. 

    CD for me, the Electrical inspector I use says the 2014 version is the current one. The NZ Govt Website says it is the current one. I linked to the Govt website that shows this. Here is the screenshot.

    image.thumb.png.9ba17f3b0f1fc341afdac9e7d2598ae5.png

    It shows the 2008 standard as superseded. That is sufficient for me. If you wish to disagree, you of course are free to do so. Potentially, IMO, you could have to do so in court.

    The "connectable installation" section is not present in this version. So ALL boats must comply, except as excluded (small boats with only Alts/Magneto's and lights, no real electrical systems)

    Again, the standards are not retrospective - if your boat has non compliant systems, that's ok, but anything new must comply.

    This is also the opinion of the local electrical inspector here.

     

  12. 14 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

    Hi IT, sorry I did not explain myself clearly - my bad.

    You are referring to the standard - I am referring to the legislation that gives legal force to the standard.

    Without legislation, (or a private body**), that requires the standard be followed, the standard has no effect. 

    Per the link you provided, AS/NZS3004:2014 is only legislated by the Maritime Act and Maritime Rule 40E - this rule does not apply to private sailing vessels.  It applies to commercial sailing vessels that are in survey.

    The standards.govt.nz site does not list any legislation that gives force to AS/NZS3004:2014 on private sailing vessels.

    There is legislation that gives force to the standards predecessor, AS/NZS3004:2008 - this is the Electricity Safety Regulations 2010.  That legislation, legally requires, that ships connected to shore power, (or with self generation), must comply with the 2008 standard.  But not the 2014 standard.

    In 2019 there was a MBIE working group which found that the reference to the 2008 standard in the legislation should be updated to the 2014 standard - but that has not occurred yet - the legislation has not been amended.

    ** any private body, is of course, allowed to say that they only will accept the 2014 standard.

    Eg, as an electrician in business you are perfectly entitled to say "I will only do work that meets the 2014 standard".

    We have discussed many times on this forum the same thing with the gas standard.  The Gas Standard says that it does not apply to installations before that standard was produced.  But good luck finding a gas fitter that will sign off on your installation being compliant to the previous standard... I doubt you will find one...

    As of today I cannot find any legal requirement to comply with AS/NZS3004:2014 on pleasure craft.  It may become a requirement in the future if the legislation is ever amended.

    Even if one were just to assume that v2014 automatically trumps the v2008 reference (which I think would be a reasonable assumption) in the regulations, the regulations still do not apply to pleasure vessels without AC.

    Nope, Sorry. The Link i provided gives the current legal citings buy the courts making the version I linked to the current legal rules. I agree that the "standards" or not law until they are citied by the courts. That's why the link also states that this is the "Current" legal version. If you wish to try to prove this in the courts, feel free. 

    Even if you could prove it's the older version, the new one, I understand, is only months away (2020 version I believe, currently still under review), and they there are more restrictions coming. I would point out though, that the standards ARE NOT RETROSPECTIVE, so if it was ok when installed, it's ok until modified/rebuilt.

  13. On 30/11/2023 at 7:36 PM, CarpeDiem said:

    Thanks. I find it strange that 2008 is the only version referenced in the regulations.

    Section 3 of the Electrical Safety Regulations 2010, which is the legal instrument that gives authority to the as/nzs standard states that:

    the regulations do not apply to pleasure vessels unless they have connectable installations. 

    connectable installation is one that is designed or intended for, or is capable of, connection to an external power supply that operates at a nominal voltage between 90 and 250 volts AC at standard low voltage.

    The above clauses in the regulations indicate to me, that if you don't have AC, (or AC self generation including inverters), then the regulations do not apply to a pleasure vessel. 

     

    Unfortunately, that is NOT the current standard. See here https://www.standards.govt.nz/search/doSearch?Search=3004 and you can see the 2014 version is the current one, and if you click on the "Cited" bit, you get a list of court citings.

    And this one has modified that clause to say "1 This Standard is not intended to apply to small boats equipped with a battery supplying circuits for engine starting and navigation lighting only that is recharged from an inboard or outboard engine driven alternator."

    So the "connectable" clause has gone...

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