Island Time
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Posts posted by Island Time
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29 minutes ago, Frank said:
For what its worth the Inspector who issued the AC compliance cert for the land yacht said the requirements for lithium battery installations were a moving feast. (slightly paraphrasing) In the time between the initial and final sign off there was some new requirement added . Even if you don't have shore power you can still get yourself into a power of expensive trouble if you don't do your homework, as IT says there is no such thing as a drop installation with Lithium. The nuclear option for batt disconnect is an 175A Anderson connector which we installed along with the BMS smarts https://www.jaycar.co.nz/anderson-175a-power-connector/p/PT4424?gclid=CjwKCAjwiOCgBhAgEiwAjv5whBV6dsFLm-dMHqCnAy4L_gLWqOV8eDgbY0Cl5DNUu6dLiCEE4EegbRoCDegQAvD_BwE
Actually those anderson connectors are not that great for LifePo4. Think about this - only 2 of the 18650 cells (3,2v, look like torch batteries) that are in most of the drop ins, shorted, can produce 75a! Short out one 100a/hr LifePo4 battery can produce up to about 20,000 amps. This will blow a fuse of course, BUT, unless it's a class T fuse, it will then arc across the terminals and current will still flow.... So, proper install needs Class T fuse - for each battery - and battery isolation switches. To meet the NZ regs you need a system that gives visual and audio alarms before it shuts off the battery. You can't do that with a bluetooth BMS - It needs CAN or serial control - both of which are wired.
Yes the NZ regs are the law - they have been sighted in the courts - currently up to the 2014 standard is my understanding. If you have a commercial vessel, part of the survey is electrical, and you must have a certificate of survey to use a vessel commercially. Private vessels are still subject to the regs, but are not subject to the electrical survey. There is room there I would think so that if you don't follow or exceed the rules, you MAY have an issue if it comes to an insurance claim, especially if the electrics aboard caused the issue.
Absolutely Lithium (and other) battery tech is moving rapidly, and the regs struggle to keep up. I have done a few LifePo4 systems for customers, using Eve or Winston cells, but they ALL have Class T fuses, BMS serial controls to control solar, shorepower, Wind gens, external reg Alternators etc, and they all have audible and visual alarms to meet the NZ (and the US ) regs. Trying to keep up with the play....
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23 hours ago, ex Elly said:
So the truth comes out - it is all a dastardly plan by the commercial boatyard owner to kill off more affordable competition:
The Royal Akarana Yacht Club is bankrolled by the Akarana Marine Sports Charitable Trust and Hyundai New Zealand, which are both headed by Howard Spencer - a keen boatie from one of Auckland’s richest families, whose own yacht is named ‘The Menace’.
Leading up to the vote on closing the public boatyard, the local board heard from the operations manager of Tamaki Marine Park in Mt Wellington who said any vessels affected by the Okahu Bay closure could be redirected to his facility. The marine park is owned by Tasman Holdings, which is directed by Howard Spencer.Not really practical for a yacht - have to take the rig out, cant get under the bridge (8m height restriction)
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I was there, and it was great! The on the water organizing left quite a bit to be desired - no clear marking of spectator area, no GPS co-ordinates either, or better still would have been a GPX file to lay out the course, so we could park in the right spot! As it was they had to move most of the spectator fleet on day one, although day two was better. It was their 1st go at this though.
The Sailing was awesome, and well worth the trip.
NZ could have started better! Penalizing themselves....
I only went down from Wellington, and with the forecast now for the return trip, looks like thursday at the earliest. Gales tomorrow.
Marina manager in Lyttleton was less than friendly (we wanted to come in and get water, that's all - "No, you cant, and there is nowhere else". We would have paid if needed, not an option apparently, and his advice was wrong - the abandoned marina had some water in places. Not great for region PR.
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45 minutes ago, MarkMT said:
I notice in the listing for Sterling lithium batteries at Burnsco https://www.burnsco.co.nz/sterling-amps-lifepo4-lithium-batteries-12v the following comment -
Does AUS/NZS 3004.2:2004 apply to installations that are not connected to shore power? Just standalone DC on board.
Yes. The only exemption is "NOTES:
1 This Standard is not intended to apply to small boats equipped with a battery supplying
circuits for engine starting and navigation lighting only that is recharged from an inboard or
outboard engine driven alternator."So unless you ONLY have engine start and nav lights.... AND that battery specifically says no alternator charging.
IMO there is NO SUCH THING as a "Drop in Lithium battery" on a boat.
This article is great, and written by one of the worlds leaders in this field https://marinehowto.com/drop-in-lifepo4-be-an-educated-consumer/
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6 minutes ago, Addem said:
Does anyone have a solution for the stagnant water in the water feed line which reeks to eternity when first flushed after sitting for a week or more?
I put the blue stuff(from Rv shop) in the bowl but can't get rid of the seawater in the line (which is quite long in my boat) - this goes off and stinks really bad.
The only solution is a fresh water toilet, or converting to a waterless toilet (composting). The rotten egg smell is caused by the biological life dying and decomposing in the seawater feed...inlet - before the toilet, so no additives at the toilet can work.
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I too have a set of wired in bypass switches to enable start and alt when it fails again. Yes, my alt used to output 14.75 (with old AGM's that could take 14.8v, with alt being controlled by the Nordkyn alt controller to get 3 stage charging. When I changed to lithium (LiFePo4) the max voltage was restricted t0 14.2v, and solar to match.
VSR - yep, just joins the banks together. Not ideal if batts cannot operate at same voltages
If your chemistries require different voltages, the best way is to set up for the house bank (Where most charging is required), then use a DC-DC charger to the start bank. IMO.
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2 hours ago, ynot said:
So apparently Volvo have said that the main cause of MDI box failures is caused by solar panels attached to the system and the voltage getting higher than 13.8v which kills the MDI which in turn stops the motor and won't start or charge or do sweet bugga all unless you get out the screw driver and short the relays old school...and yes I know how to wire the emergency start button but that voids warranty so if the above is true how do you get around a solar charger charging AGM's at 14.7 which will keep the VSR engaged which also means the start batt see this as well (SLA) and if both power switches are on with solar panel attached this must mean that the MDI box see this high voltage at times as well.
I am guessing the VSR can be engaed and back feed from house to start as well...i do not really know how they work
If all this is right, then surely Volvo must have built a box that can handle a certain percentage of over voltage knowing that they sell boat motors, and most boats have solar and newer type batteries such as AGM and VSR's and things.
I asked them today if the box could be ditched and set up relays for glow and stop and start and gauges and alarms etc. but they said NO WAY it voids engine warranty. I wonder where they would sit if it really happened at the worst time and ya lost ya boat or family members when they are well aware of the issue that is in an issue solar or not.
I have also read that relocating them off the engine is a solve but Volvo says nope that is not an issue.
I had one die on me under the harbour bridge with no boom on the boat (mast was coming out) on a no wind day so had to call coastgaurd and get a tow.
Thanks
I have attached a pic of what I am talking about of a possible setup that may cause this to happen.... any thoughts on how to set this up would be appreciated.
Volvo where and who? The MDI units "should" be ok up to around 15v which is when the Alarm goes off. The MDI should be powered off when ignition is off. Volvo are well aware of the issue and issued the attached recall. Your dealer is not being straight up! Its worth reading the link above from Eric at Nordkyn. There is also lots of stuff on cruisers forum. Print out the attached recall, and maybe some other stuff, and have a go at your dealer. I have had 2 MDI's replaced under warranty...
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The correct position for mounting is 460mm forward of the rudder post center (pivot point).
The issues are power, motion range and speed. Mounting the pin 460mm forward of the pivot gives the best performance of these 3 requirements.
85kg on the standard pin is fine, but with one of extended length the torque on the tiller can be quote a bit... and, set up correctly + with the right sail combination, they can steer pretty well.
The single best improvement you can make is to add a decent compass - like a precision 9 - the difference in steering accuracy is HUGE. This is due to the fact that the little fluxgate in the tiller pilot is simply too small to give accuraqte headings in a seaway.
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36 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:
Follow up on the auto tiller. It's now fitted and operational. Nothing exciting technology wise, just a standard TP32. However, there was earlier discussion around the tiller pin, so here it is. Works great.
just remember that the TP32 max thrust is 85 Kg. The pin must support that, and the longer it is, the bigger the lever....
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all sanitation hose breaks down eventually. use a rag with boiling water on it - rub it on the hose - then smell the rag. if it smells, replace the hose....
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On 22/02/2023 at 11:36 AM, Aio said:
Hi Matt - back in Auckland. It's not showing on the NSS, but I've borrowed someone's spare AP16 which is working and showing on the NSS. I'm guessing I need to find a way to get the AP20 onto the NSS bus...
Alternatively, what would you recommend replacing it with?
So the AP is simnet and the NSS3 is NMEA2000, Which are basically the same with different connections. Is the simnet network actually connected to the NSS3?
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looks like one of the originals, may be 50 yrs old! Possibly a Parkercraft. Have you float tested? They can leak from the riveted seams - all of them!
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888 was anchored with 2 anchors at GB. Both failed in some way, and she hit rocks on being blown out to sea. This would likely account for the one hull being flooded, and also for the rate of drift, which was much slower than I'd expect for a light carbon race cat.
It will be interesting to hear the story and sequence of events that resulted in the loss of a fine vessel.
The top sentence is 2nd hand, but from the rescue services.
Please guys, wait until we hear what happened before critiquing. There is often/usually more to a news item than it appears.
After all, this boat "grew" another hull during the media story, starting off as a cat and ending up a Tri!
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Great Work NZ Navy!
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That’s bad!
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Top of Shakespeare Park
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Indeed. Think I might remove sails etc, but we'll see what happens in the next couple of days. Some models have the eye passing over Auckland....
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Indeed. Many who have not been in the situation don't realise how detrimental exhaustion is, and how it can really put you in danger! Now for ocean passages I pre rig the parachute, run the warp around the toe rail, tied with cable ties. All I have to do to launch it is shackle the cable to the chute, cable tie the shackle, and kick the chute off the stern. Chute opens, pops the cable ties, and sets itself
. The running block for the bridle is floated with a fender, and you just adjust it so the float is directly to weather, with a primary winch. Worked amazingly well, and is my go to for a really serious storm - which should be able to be avoided with modern weather forecasting! I'd prefer to sail away from the path a few days before!
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2 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:
I used a parachute drogue off the bow and the stern, on a Farr 1020 on the way to Fiji.
Set in a way as to hold the boat at about 70deg to the waves it allowed the boat to stay in a hove to position in 50knot+ winds for a day while we waited for things to settle down. Would like to claim I knew what I was doing, but I had literally read it in Parry's book a couple of months earlier and we were kind of desperate to try something after exhausting ourselves for two days trying to keep the boat from forereaching - that is the first and only time I have deployed a parachute drogue - worked an absolute treat.
On the same journey we deployed a sea break out the stern that was attached too both primaries, we did that to slow us down while screaming down the face of waves. 18 knots of boat speed down a 40 foot wave in a Farr 1020 in the middle of the pacific was kind of scary in the daylight, the sea brake kept us at a respectable speed and she didn't start planning so their was no risk of rounding up or down that night.
Interesting. In my experience 70 deg is too much, I used a bridle back to a primary so I could adjust the angle. At 30-40 deg I could stop sternway and fore reaching, and sit basically stopped, while the storm passed over. But every storm and every boat/skipper is different and everyone must make their own calls..
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A drogue is for off the stern. A sea anchor (parachute) is off the bow. A drogue slows you down and helps prevent broaching. A Parachute basically holds you stopped in the hove 2 position. Both have been used successfully by multiple people/vessels. You do your research, and make you call. Ideally I'd like both, so I can decide depending on the situation.
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27 minutes ago, Adrianp said:
Matt, what is the approx step up to the H5000?
Ok, 1st, I don't understand why you would use a NAC3 VRF core pack when the NAC3 core pack (incl rudder sensor) is $200 more, but the RF25 (rudder feedback) is $442. I don't know why you would use an RF300 either! Way cheaper to buy the right core pack!
So, the difference between costs for a H5000 AP V a Triton2 Ap is not exactly straight forward. The H5000 AP computer is about the same cost as the NAC3 Core pack. (3K). However, to actually be useful it needs H5000 instruments as well. The base H5000 pack is another $3500 (Hydra) to $7500 (performance) plus whatever sensors you want - masthead wind, mast twist sensors, Mast rotation sensors, RFU's, Precision 9, Load cells, etc etc. Basically the difference would be min 10K...
+ if you want to have a certified H5000 installer, you'd have to come to Auckland.
LiFePO4
in TechTalk
Posted
Mostly TAO BMS units. The std display does audio and visual, and there are 6 relays std, more of you wish. Despite the name, its a European company with a French electronics engineer designer/owner who is a sailor - currently in NZ, on his boat called Tao.
They currently have restricted supply though....