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Island Time

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Posts posted by Island Time

    Fire at Pine Harbor

    in MarineTalk

    Posted

    Lots of new boats are electric only. Vessels that draw 20-50a all the time are not uncommon any more. Gensets and huge solar arrays are how it’s done mostly. 1 or 2 thousand watts of solar is becoming common on some of the large offshore cruisers. All the comforts of home…. At a cost!

    Fire at Pine Harbor

    in MarineTalk

    Posted

    6 hours ago, wheels said:

    Yes me. I have had two batteries explode over the years. 3 actually as one was a bank of 2x 6V tractor batteries. The bang was defening and left my ears ringing for days. There was nothing left of the batteries apart from some lead cells. Brand new and huge things. Yet not one drop of acid or battery had touched me, yet the explosion had bent the bonnet of the Tractor.

    I watched a guy in the yard I worked in, hook up huge jumper cables to a big dozer and he got them around the wrong way. There was a huge explosion of "stuff" and the cable clamps had cut clean through the Terminals.

    Years ago now, I Nearly lost my boat not long after we bought it. It could nearly have also been my life. I had 1800A @ 12V for engine start. Shorting 1800A makes short work of even large Battery cables. I can't actually remember what caused thew short, but I think it may have been the failing of the Starter. An old CAV design and a pain in the A of a thing. I was doing something down below and suddenly caught a wiff of smoke. I lifted the engine hatch to billows of harsh smoke pouring out. I proped up the  hatch which is a large solid teak floor and very heavy, then reached down into the smoke and fumes and found the battery disconnect switches and turned them off. I then opened up the boat and let all the smoke expel.
    I walked away and left it all for about 10 to 15min and came back to find to my horror, the cable had melted through everything like a hot knife. Eventually coming to rest on the fuel lines which were Hydraulic hose, with internal steel braiding. The cable run going to the disconnects melted through the jacket and shorted to the braid which was earthed and still connected to the batteries and live. The Fuel lines had now become heaters and were boiling the Diesel till it was escaping in jets of fumes out through the chard hoses. I was expecting at any moment for it to all erupt into flames.
    I then did what can only be described as the most stupid thing, but I was desperate. I climbed down into the engine compartment and into the fumes while holding my breath and got to the battery bank and with side cutters, went about cutting through the Battery cable. The battery bank was radiating heat they were so hot and I was worrying they would explode in my face. I got through the cable and as I stood, the hatch came crashing down and the latch bolt struck my head and caused a large gash. Blood instantly streamed down my face and over my glasses and I had to scramble out of the engine room blind.
    That part of the drama was over. But I was feeling really sick and had blood all over me and my head sure hurt. I decided I needed to get home and cleaned up, so then drove the 35mins back to Home, where my wife took one look at me and gasped in Horror.

    Lucky to get away with that!

    There have been lots of Lead Acid Battery fires, caused by internal and external shorts, poor/old/damaged cables and terminals, and other stuff. A battery is a fuel tank, no fuel tank is 100 % safe.

    Drop In Lithiums

    in TechTalk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, wheels said:

    sigh...I'm not keeping up with the new tech and information as well as I used to. Been too busy on other things and getting too old.

    Hah! I resemble that remark! Amazing how quickly the years pile on.... :-(

    Drop In Lithiums

    in TechTalk

    Posted

    34 minutes ago, wheels said:

    I had provided a photo of a car on fire on the road between here and Nelson in the forum that no longer exists unfortunately. I will see if I can find the original and post it again. People fired that many fire extinguishers into it, yet it burned away unempeded. The car was nothing more than ashes and 4 shock struts sticking up.
    How about the Cars onboard that Delivery Vessel. All $450 milion of them that are now with Ship at bottom of sea.
    Boeing 787's had huge problems with the first lot of batteries on their aircraft. You only have to do a google of Aircraft and batteries fires to find all the stories on that.
    Tesla has put a lot or work into making the banks safer. But not all Car or batteries are made by Tesla.

    But the point is Wheels, NONE of those batts were LifePo4.

    • Upvote 1

    Drop In Lithiums

    in TechTalk

    Posted

    While that is true Wheels, anything with energy can be dangerous. LifePo4 is the safest lithium tech, with lower power density than some, and fairly high temps required for thermal runaway. Statistics are starting to show its less dangerous than AGM from what I've read so far...

     

    • Upvote 2

    Pedestal steering help

    in TechTalk

    Posted

    OK, looks like a grubscrew or friction pin in the bronze gear. Unscrew it or punch it out. Looks like you've taken the bolt out of the clamp? Try to spread the to of the clamp sufficiently  to be larger than the surrounding lip. Look in the hole at the top of the shaft in the alloy casting - that can have a grub screw as well, locating into a groove in the shaft. 

    Seized how - can't rotate, or cant withdraw shaft?

    Drop In Lithiums

    in TechTalk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, CarpeDiem said:

    There is another thread on that here: https://crew.org.nz/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/20755-fire-at-pine-harbor/

    Firstly it's possibly a rumor that this was caused by an Li-Ion battery installation.  It could have been caused by the battery in someone's phone, or an electric tool... and thus still be called a Li-Ion fire.

    To your comment/question:

    Your boat is probably coming with LiFePO4 cells?  If not, what is the chemistry?

    Any amount of energy stored on your boat is a potential fire risk.  If that energy is escaping uncontrollably then it has to go somewhere and heat is the most likely place for it to end up.

    The three things you need to worry about with any LiFePO4 battery setup on your boat are:

    • Puncture
    • Short Circuit
    • Over Charge

    Of those three, short circuit is the only one likely to cause a fire, but it won't actually be the battery-cell that catches fire, it will be whatever is causing the short circuit, that thing will heat up and set something else on fire.

    So the short-circuit risk is easily mitigated with appropriate fuses (see IT's post above).

    LiFePO4 batteries are exceptionally safe.  And it's extremely unlikely that this was caused by the battery cell itself - although as always wait and see...

    Here's a great video of GWL destroying some LiFePO4 cells:  

     

    Great Post CD, totally agree. LifePo4 is not a problem if correctly installed, incl fuses. Personally I'd be very wary of any other Lithium Chemistry in a boat.

    Drop In Lithiums

    in TechTalk

    Posted

    I just thought, in view of potentially a fire being started by a direct short to a lithium bank, I should post something about AIC -Amperage Interrupt Current - of a fuse, esp a battery fuse. Yes, you should have a battery fuse on all your batts!

    If you have changed to lifepo4, or are thinking of it, and have battery fuses, they may not be suitable for fusing this type of bank. ANL fuses, are not normally rated to a high enough AIC for lithium batts, but are good for lead Acid.

    So, what is AIC? AIC is the amount of current that the fuse can interrupt - more than the AIC can set up an arc between the fuse contacts, and current will continue, with LOTS of heat, and probably a fire.

    This is specifically an issue with Lithium Technologies, as, if shorted, they will produce 1000's of amps for a period. Yes, 1000's. Around 2800 is not uncommon, and I suggest a fuse with 10,000 AIC rating to be selected.

    What can you use? This comes down really to 2 types. A class T fuse, or a MRBF fuses;

    MRBF Terminal Fuse - 100A

    This is an MRBF fuse, and although the one in the pic is only 75a, larger (up to 300a) is available.

    Class T Fuse Holder with 2 Additional Studs

    This is a class T fuse. Both of these have decent AIC ratings, and are good for all battery types. 

    Please be careful out there, and check the ratings on your fuses to ensure suitability for your install.

    • Like 1
    • Upvote 1

    Fire at Pine Harbor

    in MarineTalk

    Posted

    If it's LifePo4, it is extremely unlikely to be the batteries themselves, but, if unfused (or fused with wrong spec fuses) a direct short can be 1000's of amps, and the cables can catch fire. Poorly spec'd fuses wont break the connection, and, without a break, can be pretty hard to stop!

    Precision 9 Compass not upgrading

    in TechTalk

    Posted

    4 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

    Can the Zeus2 act as a nmea terminator? 

    I can disconnect everything except wind gear as I only have one terminator. 

    And the upgrade still fails. 

    No. THE Zeus 2 is just a device,  same as any other. If you can't do it, see my post above, navico can fo it at Albany, or I can do it if you can get it to me.

    Surface mount GPS Antenna

    in TechTalk

    Posted

    One knot on a stationary boat's GPS is pretty common, and not due to unit quality or any fault. It's due to the error present in the GPS signal. This is one of the multiple reasons that GPS only is a dangerous way to navigate.

    If a bulkhead mounted MFD (Plotters are obsolete! - its a Multi Function Display), where the GPS is positioned in the bulkhead can be problematic in some installs - if the bulkhead is thick, and covers the GPS antenna location, you are asking the antenna to "see" through the whole depth of material up to the deck/cabin top - could be 300mm or more. That wont work well. 50mm of GRP or timber is no issue, so through a deck - no problem, unless it's metal.

    Bare mast finish.

    in TechTalk

    Posted

    Nyalic will work for a while, but will Crack and peel eventually. 

    I considered all this, and decided to repaint. Too hard/expensive to remove all the paint to leave bare. Sanded, epoxy prime and topcoat, with brush/roller. Came out pretty good. Last paint job lasted over 20 years.

    storing paper charts on board - whats your method?

    in MarineTalk

    Posted

    4 hours ago, ex Elly said:

    Does your old Garmin still work properly?

    Mine now does an 'autolocate' every time I turn it on, which takes around 10 minutes. Very annoying!

     

    They have an internal battery to remember where they last were. Sounds like it’s flat. Some are easy to replace, some not. Open it and have a look…

    • Like 1

    Raymarine upgrade from 2008

    in TechTalk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Jon said:

    Ok next ?

    Can I upgrade the MFDs now and use existing radar, course computer wind and depth etc and which MFD will fit in hole in panel and stainless box that E80s are now in ? Plus I’ve got navionics card for whole pacific, what will this work in or if buying new mfds just get new charts ?

    Unfortunately the digital radars are all proprietary, so to see which MFDs are supported, you have to look on the Radar vendor's website to ascertain which MFD's will work, but only Raymarine works with Raymarine, and only Navico (Lowrance, Simrad, B&G) works with Navico.

    E80s are more of a portrait hole size, all the new MFD's are more landscape. Mostly I have to cover the old dash (piece of Carbon, White or Black Acrylic works well and avoids painting) and cut a new hole. 

    The E80 chart cartridge wont fit any of the new MFD's from any Vendor. May as well sell them with the E80s.  Most MFD's now use Micro C cards for charts. On the plus side, now the MFD's can connect to the internet, via a hotspot, the charts can be easily kept up to date, and or new areas purchased as needed. Just for info, NZ and Pacific Islands CMAP is about $330.00

     

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