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Anchor Connections Warning!


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Here is an image of an Anchor swivel, common in NZ, that has failed due to side loading.     In this case the anchor actually held, but fell off the chain while the anchor was being retrieved!  

think my older style is fine directly to the anchor   how it should be done?   how it shouldn't be done

wow thats just confirmed my impression of them,shiney junk

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I'd rather my daughter went out with a methamphetamine dealer on a motorbike than have one of those things between my boat and family and the rocks. I've never had a problem with my rocna getting turned back either.

 Well, apart from the time it flipped out of the fairlead..... I fitted a spectra strop to captivate it after that.

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. My question is why do they appear to be manufactured to allow this?

Because 99 out of 100, probably 99.9 out of 100, have no problems what so ever.

 

There are good ones and there are bad ones. Most on the market in NZ are OK for 99% of boaters. There have been 2 issues in the last couple of years, both with a swivel that arguably looks the prettiest and is sold with a vast range of brand names on it. In both occasions the sellers did the right thing and only 2 boats got hurt. Those are still on the market.

 

Those ones and a couple of others, (maybe the bottom one of erices as well) rely on 3mm machine screws to hold the pins in. Tweak those screws and all hell could break loose in a bad way, to say we aren't fans is accurate. But it must be noted those swivels aren't failing hand over fist or anything even close.

 

99 out of ever 100 would be direct to the shank of the anchor and with over a 1000 a year sold in NZ alone if that was a problem you'd hear about it. One mob has sold over 6000 in the last decade and not had 1 side loading issue and only 3 issues in total, one being a boater not knowing how to screw a screw :roll:

 

Many with swivels don't need them and some are having issues due to having a swivel. We commonly take them out of systems and it fixes the problem.

 

Swivels are chocker with myths, like all anchoring gear. Well, maybe not myths at the time 100 years ago but times and the gear have moved on a LOT faster than the boaters stories about it.

 

Like a lot of boating gear people don't read the specs. Many, like the Kong, do state loads and side load abilities. Maybe if the boater read those they'd be more aware of what they have and it's limitations.

 

If you are a hardened cruiser who has the possibility of being caught at Moto MidleofNowhere in real shite weather then allowing articulation between the anchor and swivel is a good idea but if you aren't why try to reinvent a very well known wheel?

 

The rocnas are using lots of anchor straighteners at the moment. It seems there was a change about 18 months ago and we're getting a lot of reports of them coming up backwards. All anchors can do it but we have noticed a spike in those ones lately. A straightener fits between the anchor and chain to ensure the anchor comes on in the right way up every time. The straighteners do have a swivel on one end.

 

The funny thing is 90% of the people who hate 'weak links', like swivels, will have commercial shackles fitted instead. A commercial shackle is built 100% on price and price alone, they have no rating or consistency in loads, sh*t threads and are generally crap. Even most of the bad swivels are stronger and more reliable.

 

16mm Opps.jpg

There ya go erice. In this case a 16mm one commonly sold on the NZ market in many sizes. That one is ex china as 99%, of them are, and was sold by a local well known chain as having a break load of 10,800kg. The photo shows it after I applied 4000kg to it, it will not go another 500kg. What's more the '16mm' swivel is held together by a 12mm bolt.

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I'd rather my daughter went out with a methamphetamine dealer on a motorbike

I told my D2 a few times that she would be better off using Meth or Heroin than watching some bullshit Aussie soap she does. Something came up in Social Studies and she repeated that to her teacher. I got spoken too by the PC infested little faith in his students headmaster. I rode my motorbike to the school and not one car driver tried to kill me............ for a pleasant change ;)

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I told my D2 a few times that she would be better off using Meth or Heroin than watching some bullshit Aussie soap she does. Something came up in Social Studies and she repeated that to her teacher. I got spoken too by the PC infested little faith in his students headmaster. I rode my motorbike to the school and not one car driver tried to kill me............ for a pleasant change ;)

Heh heh. 

 yeah don't start me on my unrated shackle rant, there was a period there when every chandlery in AKL sold  junk anchor shackles that looked exactly like the  well made ones we'd all been buying for the previous couple of decades. It was when I stripped a 14 mm  one with a 6 in crescent I looked a bit closer and discovered they might have well as painted the threads on. barely cut.

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So where can we buy decent galvanised shackles?

I have seen some in the westhaven chandleries, which have been manufactured bent (assymetric). Looks dodgy...

I can't think of any application I'd use a galvanised swivel bar maybe a love seat or a sex swing (which we have made both of and more than once, don't ask)

 

The problem with them, especially in a anchoring system, is that once they do a bit of work they will rust up very fast and it left for a short as a month will just not work again without giving it the bash first.

 

In a anchor system use a stainless one. Yes I know you'll be told dissimilar metals wiil be a total disaster inside 2 minutes blaa blaa blaa. To that I say bollocks and it's easy to prove, just wonder any marina and look at how many galv anchors are connected to galv chains by a SS swivel. If that was a issue you wouldn't see the 100's you can. Basically to get nasrty action happening you a fliud so when you deploy it something may start to happen if it's left long enough. Pull your anchor up, it dries out and nasties can't flow, it's that simple.

 

And the reason you DO NOT use SS gear in a mooring as that is permanently immersed so the fluid is always there, not to mention the SS can't breath so it'll go bad. Any SS seen in a permanent mooring should get a instant 'fail' by the mooring contractor on inspection.\

 

Oh crap, on proof reading (yes I do it occasionally) I see Elly asked about shackles not swivels....Doh!!!! So I'll leave the above there as it's handy info and answer Elly thus.

 

Buy a Hi load shackle or a rated shackle. The Hi Load shackles are usually identified by a coloured pin and markings on the body which should include a WLL (Wor4kimng load limit). The real McCoy are Green pins out of the country with cheese and windmills in Europe. Most the chandlers usually have are chinese knock offs like blue, yellow, red, silver and other coloured pins.  But they are OK as they are used extensively in cranes i.e. over head lifting, which is a area OSH crawls over more then a horny 18yo on a drunk slapper. So they are fine to use. But they are physically smaller than the usual commercials meaning they can struggle to get around the anchor shank connection and onto the chain with just one shackle meaning you may need 2. Also they run different design  (safety) margins than chain which is 4:1. The shackles run 6:1 meaning the WLL is 1/6th of the break load. So when checking load numbers remember that or you may think the shackle is weaker when in fact it's stronger. Hi load shackles are 'rated'.

 

'Rated' or 'Certified' are 2 terms used a lot in the marine game but easily 50% of the time they are used wrongly and often they are blatant lies for marketing purposes. Sadly the later is becoming quite common as is the amou8nt of gear tagged one of those terms that just isn't. It's a pet peeve of mine at the moment. Anyway.......

 

Or you can get other rated shackles like Grade M's. These look more the the usual but have been loaded and checked. The Grade M (another name for Grade 40) means they are stronger mm for mm than all std anchor chains in NZ except for the Maggi AQUA4 which is also a Grade 40,  These are usual the easier to fit as they are bigger than the Hi Loads.

 

Or if you have a high grade chain (like the AQUA4 or AQUA7) and a SHHP (Super high holding power)  like a Supreme, Sarca, Excel of Fortress you can use H Locks. These are real strong, quite sleek with nothing sticking out the side, articulate real well and usually fit the anchor and chain in one go. Many will look at them and Gasp in horror  then think 'Bugger that' but before you do consider the fact the likes of Sanfords use them to connect their 2 million dollar nets often with $500,000 of fish in them to the trawl lines while they apply tonnes and tonnes of load, I'd suggest your piddly very low load in comparison anchor system will be fine. You can do these is SS or coated steel. Shackles are cheaper but a lot weaker. I'd recommend these if you are a hard cruiser or are pushing your system hard. They are more then most boats doing typical coastal stuff would need.

 

And you can use Dyneema. No idea why you'd put a fibre down where you cant' see it and know they are sharp shite but some do recommend using it. Personally I'd call them fruitloops. In an emergency why the hell not but for day to day use?? Are are Knot 4 Me. and there's no Maybe about it ;)

 

Where to get this stuff? Bog Std shackles are everywhere, they are all the same so buy the cheapest and haggle if you want a lot. Some we sell for 1.49c into the trade I've seen in retailers for $14.95, No I am knot kidding. Hi loads are becoming more common but 99% will be the Green Pin knock-offs. If you want genuine Green Pin (they are made nicer and all are tested) or H Locks or speciality stuff you need to hunt a specialist outfit out. Just like if you want shampoo and dunny paper you go to the supermarket but if you want a decent steak or better quality (often for the same coin as the supermarkets nasty) you go to a butcher. The same applies in the marine game like most industries I'd expect.

 

Posters names in this thread have been logged and a snap quiz will be send out tomorrow morning. Anyone who fails will forfeit their boat to be auctioned off for beer... and maybe the odd slapper ;)

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