Guest Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 I have a question around turns. Being new to sailing with a few years experience, I wondered what people thought of skippers who know that they have breached a sailing rule i.e even a simple port starboard, but don't do their turns unless you protest them. We've always thought that even if we haven't been protested, we would do the turns but haven't seen this always reciprocated by only a very few. What are peoples views on this? Should we always have to protest people to do the right thing? Is not doing the turns when you know you have done the wrong thing seen as cheating? Link to post Share on other sites
w44vi 17 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Put a protest in against them if they get thrown out of a few races they will learn they can't get away with cheating. Personally I do my turns Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Don't need to, I'm perfect. No really, it's the honorable thing to do and you certainly get treated differently by your peers if you're seen to do the right thing. The Jollyboat fleet is full of decent blokes. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 As I argued on page 3 of this thread Nessie if you KNOW you broke a rule and you don't do your turns just becfause no one protested you, then you are cheating. You're breaking rule 2, and you might be breaking rule 69 by brining the sport into disrepute. If you KNOW you broke a rule, and you go into a protest hearing and knowingly lie about the situation to get off being penalised you are also a cheat. You might as well turn your motor on in the middle of the night in an offshore race, or use sails you are not rated for when no one else can see you... If you break a rule, and you know you broke the rule, doing your turns is a requirement, it is not optional. Link to post Share on other sites
smithy09 50 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 As I argued on page 3 of this thread Nessie if you KNOW you broke a rule and you don't do your turns just becfause no one protested you, then you are cheating. You're breaking rule 2, and you might be breaking rule 69 by brining the sport into disrepute. If you KNOW you broke a rule, and you go into a protest hearing and knowingly lie about the situation to get off being penalised you are also a cheat. You might as well turn your motor on in the middle of the night in an offshore race, or use sails you are not rated for when no one else can see you... If you break a rule, and you know you broke the rule, doing your turns is a requirement, it is not optional. Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Read the Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS) and download the ISAF Casebook that has official interpretations of the rules. There is only about 12 rules to immediately learn in Part II, #10 to #22, with #18 being the most "interesting" yet "hardest to remember" and "APPLY UNDER PRESSURE" at marks. Note carefully that some rules state "you SHALL protest". It does knot say "if you dislike the person, you could protest". Most rules now say "may" protest (RRS 60.1) and many events the Sailing Instructions suggest some arbitration before a formal protest meeting is held. This has reduced the number of un-necessary protests. You have generally signed an entry form that you will race under the Rules . . . but now you won't protest If new to sailing, then talking immediately to the other competitors to learn from them can be helpful before approaching the other party and/or protesting. When you do protest, you will learn a lot every time The book Racing Rules in Practice is very good. Make sure you are using the correct years, 2009-2012, for all books, RRS & Casebook. TURNS: Yes do them and remember you may be required to declare that you have done them, use the protest form. It may well keep you in the race or series sometime. Otherwise you could and should be disqualified for not declaring having done a turn. How else would the protest committee know you had done the turn. Where is the evidence On Saturday in first race we bumped a buoy, as did others, and did our turn, naturally watched by all. We went from 3rd to 8th or worse and eventually made sure all the fleet safely finished across the line ahead of us. Second race on port, with a starboard boat ahead, and with no way to sail lower because of pinching boats below us, I tacked to avoid a collision and effectively did a turn. On the last race, we redeemed ourselves but were pipped at the finish by 1 second. Ended up 3rd on H'cap for the series. Had we not done our turns, we would most likely have been correctly protested out, or asked to Retire After Finishing (RAF) and would have done so. So DO your turns Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Is not doing the turns when you know you have done the wrong thing seen as cheating? Seen as cheating?? Nope, it is cheating. Also if you've done a naughty and don't do your turn/s, do you want to go home knowing that you cheated? Who's that trying to fool? No one but yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Just like kicking the ball out of a bad lie in golf. At least the crew can have something to say about it. If you shout protest at least if you see something awry, it will make them realise they have been seen. Some seem to think that if no one protests on the water they don't have to do the turns as it's pretty hard to lose in the protest room without a verbal challenge. As mentioned above, some rules state that they are self policing, and a outside protest call is not required for the rule to be actionable. Link to post Share on other sites
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