What happens when two cats collide?

[Guest]

Bright sunny day off St Barths, both on auto pilot, both relying on Radar/Chart plotter, no one on deck either boat, one coming one going - bow to bow collision

[wheels 543]

Ouch.

Idiots.

[Guest]

When two parallel worlds of idiocy collide?

[sealegs 0]

This is exactly why the NZ Coast Guard day skipper and or Boatmaster course attendance AND a good pass mark should be made compulsory for all users of the water.

This is an avoidable incident requiring common sense and no excuse should be accepted. Charge them I say with recklessness and endangering other water users.

[Guest]

This is exactly why the NZ Coast Guard day skipper and or Boatmaster course attendance AND a good pass mark should be made compulsory for all users of the water.

This is an avoidable incident requiring common sense and no excuse should be accepted. Charge them I say with recklessness and endangering other water users.

 

Welcome newbie!!

 

Compulsory training and registration for boat users?

 

Don't go there bro!

[Guest]

Perhaps we should note that at least one of the boats was a charter boat, so probably a bunch of firemen from Ohio.

[Guest Rocket]

Laughable in this day and age - (NCEA etc) to suggest that letters after your name or passing (participating) in some course will improve your capabilities Hahaha

 

Get out there doing it - get a more experienced person to teach you - but seriously a boatmasters - I fish with a guy who has those tickets - still thinks he is angle parking the family saloon...

[w44vi 17]

Passing a coast guard course isn't going to stop this type of incident!

You can't teach people not to be dumb

[wheels 543]

That kind of accident is caused by people that think they can rely on elelctronics and that electronics can do anything and everything for them. This accident is simple Failure to maintain a proper watch. Whether under control of an AP, Radar, AIS, GPS, Sonar, FLS or Toaster, you MUST maintain a proper watch and the ability and time frame that you can leave the helm is determined by how busy the waterway is around you. Like most all of us here, When Dawn and I are in an area that other boats or land is close by, we will always have one of us at the helm even if under AP control. If we are in open sea, then we might leave the helm or read a book for longer periods, but one of us in charge of the Helm will still update to the view around us at certain intervals.

I remember a guy coming in through Tory one day. He was under AP control and he went downstairs to call his wife on the VHF and update her. When he pushed transmit, the AP made a turn to Port and he did not know. He was rudely interupted in his journey by lanuching himself up onto the rocks. NEVER trust electronics, even if they have worked flawlessly beforehand for years.

[sealegs 0]

That kind of accident is caused by people that think they can rely on elelctronics and that electronics can do anything and everything for them. This accident is simple Failure to maintain a proper watch.

 

100% agree with you wheels. That is why I feel its necessary to get users educated first when on the water. Its usually the neglect of the basics that cause accidents.

" Just a thought though...If a compulsory drivers license is required by law for all road users who want to use a road vehicle on a clearly marked tar seal or metal road that is also marked with road signs of all sorts... then is it not logical to have a very similar law for users of the water where there is no clearly marked lanes for the ignorant to understand nor are there nicely written road signs posted in the water for them to figure out eventually?

 

Is it only ok to be safe on land but the sea is an exception to the rule?

Most water users presume that because they can push the throttle forward and have somewhat control of the vessel, they deem themselves suitably qualified to enter the water and do what ever they want to with the vessel. Imagine if that same attitude was acceptable on the road ? Would we be ok with that?

So why should the same law not apply to the water?

I accept the policing of it would be challenging but how much is our safety worth to us on the water? Is it worth less that that on land?

 

If you want to fly a plane even for recreational purposes. you need an aviation license. Why.. ? there are no road signs up there, no policing and you have heaps of room to avoid a collision...

[w44vi 17]

Just a thought though...If a compulsory drivers license is required by law for all road users who want to use a road vehicle on a clearly marked tar seal or metal road that is also marked with road signs of all sorts... then is it not logical to have a very similar law for users of the water where there is no clearly marked lanes for the ignorant to understand nor are there nicely written road signs posted in the water for them to figure out eventually?

 

Yeah look how well car licensing works

[wheels 543]

Sealegs, I think we all agree to your side of the argument, but at the same time, I think what many of us are concerned with is the cost. It's not as simple as obtaining a drivers licience and look at the cost of that now. Obtaining a pilots liceince is out of my reach at least and I could imagine a fairly similar type of training. Dawns Boat course was a week and that taught her basiuc boat handling skills. Excellent course, but still very basic and if it wasn't part of her Airforce training, we could never have afforded to do it. If you are going to educate boaties to the extent of which caused the above accident, that is fairly intensive training and I could imagine the cost would be Horrendous.

I am not sure education would actually have solved that above incident anyway. That was just plain stupidity and we see that kind of stupidity out on the water all the time. Driver liciencing has not stopped stupidity on our roads.

And to add to the above, I think the greater fear again would be a Boat registration that cost money and achieves absolutely noithing at all. It would be no different that saying we must all have an MSA registration and any boat with a current MSA number is not exempt from sometimes seen doing something stupid on the water.

I get the angriest when I see a proffesional skipper breaking the law. Just like that fishing skipper in Napier I experienced where he threatened to smash my boat with his vessel or his idiotic view that we could tie alongside a huge steel boat in a big swell surge and gale safely and remain safe. All his training never stopped his Stupidity.

[Guest]

There are drivers out there who completely ignore all the rules of the road, and kill themselves and others with monotonous regularity.

Once the pollies and police sort them out and it is safe to drive on the road without having to constantly be vigilant to other users, come back to us with this argument sealegs.

Until then you will need to come up with another reason why licensing etc will make the slightest bit of difference to the way that users of our oceans behave.

Not holding my breath on that one!

[sealegs 0]

Hmmm...I guess we cannot do anything about stupidity nor the lack of common sense. An old man once told me that "common sense" is actually not that "common"

 

Some background to my argument...

 

I arrived in NZ about 5 yrs ago and got enrolled with the learn to sail at the Waitangi yacht club in 2008/2009. A sport that was only for the rich in my former country, RSA but very accessible here in NZ for anyone interested. I just loved it!

 

I joined the kerikeri cruising club this year after visiting the marina often for 3 yrs now & I bought my first boat early this year, an H28 and sailed it from auckland to kerikeri with the help of an old salt, a retired navy commander (boatmaster, restorer ). He pointed out important rules , bouys. beacons etc and explained their significance and he also taught me to plot a course, determine our current position as we sailed north etc. It dawned on me how stupid and reckless I would have been if I simply presumed to know what to do just because I could sail a boat or use its own power.I thought my family are depending upon me to take them sailing and bring them back safely.That trip from auckland was a wake up call for me!

I got my Day skipper and Boatmaster soon after because it made sense to have the confidence & knowledge to ensure my safety, my crew (family) and other users .

It was a huge learning curve during the courses to learn how much info is required to use a vessel safely and I became very disturbed when I observed other users thereafter who displayed an obvious ignorance to the "rules of the road" and total disregard for others around them. I just could not understand how anybody could take part in such an unpredictably dangerous environment like the sea and NOT want to know how to keep safe? Its beyond my understanding. "The preservation of life especially your own is instinctive ..surely?"

 

Forgive my being naive.I never thought of the possible registration costs that might be incurred with enforcement of the rules so I suppose for the sake of keeping our own costs down... " let sleeping dogs lie" and always "keep a good lookout" for the ignoramus out there. Point taken!

 

My thanks to the creator/s and contributors of this site. Its a great source of valuable info ( & humor) for the inexperienced like myself to learn from your shared experiences. I envy your knowledge. My next plan is to get involved as crew on the KK races I observe on the water from my home on the inlet.

I was invited once as a fill in crew member in 2009 on a class A yacht ( wont mention the name) and was never invited again. I presume it was because I was ignorant of what was required as a crew member , I did not know the race rules & still dont...and everyone was too busy trying to win to bother teaching a fellow new crew member what to do.Needless to say the yacht I was on did not win! perhaps it was because I did not wind that winch fast enough? I thought it was just great to be on the water amongst such a formidable fleet & crews.

Regardless... I acknowledge that there is still heaps for me to learn as a new sailor and this can only be achieved by observing the experienced sailors at work & play.

 

I have been following this site for a long while now before registering and even more before adding my 2cents worth this week.Perhaps we shall meet someday at the marina or on the water. I shall keep a "good lookout " for you.

[Guest]

Your personal experience and actions regarding getting training/experience are to be commended.

 

Unfortunately not all water users are so inclined, and enforcement won't change that. It will only impact on the rest of us quietly getting on with it.

 

My experience is kind of the same, but I got onto a racing yacht that has a skipper who is willing to give crew a go and teach them as we go.

You need to find the same type of yacht I guess.

We defended the Port Nic B division season championship on club handicap this year and also won on PHRF this year by our reckoning, so we aren't bunnies floating around in the pack either.

[Guest]

The Canadians have a compulsory scheme -

 

It's a common sight at boatshows and similar outdoorsy trade shows to see Waterways people handing out the curriculum handbook and exam papers. You also see young people filling out their

test papers and, if they pass (which they invariably do because it's politically expedient to have the bar set pretty low), they get their Pleasure Craft Operators Licence.

 

Thus, someone who might have not the slightest experience is empowered to operate a vessel.

 

To my mind this is futile and dangerous.

 

This scheme has created a political win-win. It creates a whole new bureaucracy (i.e. jobs) and an illusion of public good. It also gets the politicians off the hook of responsibility.

 

In doing so it provides a bare minimum of practical boating education, creates overconfidence in the

licencees, and costs everyone a lot of money.

 

 

Confession: I have been sailing for 50 odd years. When I was 21 or so I spent several months doing a Marine Department Yacht Masters Course. I failed the course because I could not, either aurally or visually, tell a dot from a dash (ability to read morse code was then compulsory).

 

I often reflect that, had I passed the course, I would have thought myself somewhat sh*t-hot, and wonder what strife such an attitude may have led me into.