Heavy wind sailing questions

[phillyjad 0]

Hi

 

Am learning heaps from the thread below about upwind sailing in heavy airs as I'm also not fond of the wind when it goes over the 20 knot mark! I have a few questions about sailing in heavy winds, and didn't want to jump in on the upwind thread, as they arent limited to it!

 

I sail a starling and was racing in 30 knot winds in the weekend, and found myself sometimes making no headway upwind in the big gusts with the boat stalling and rounding up head to wind. I was using lots of vang and maximum outhaul, but would someone please be able to explain what effect using the cunningham would do in this situation. I'm not entirely sure what the cunningham does, so dont tend to use it, as I don't know when you are meant to! In these big gusts, is it better to pinch and feather the main or play the main to keep her flat?

 

Also, do you guys have any advice for downwind sailing in big gusts? Downwind sailing in heavy winds is my nemesis - I tend to get chicken and round up to a reach and granny gybe my way to the bottom mark in a series of reaches to avoid losing control but that doesnt get me there very fast! Is there an easy way to keep the boat underneath you or is it a matter of hanging on for dear life and expecting to get wet?

 

Lastly just a question about capsizing. I can't say I'm a fan of it, which doesnt help the above. Sometimes when I capsize she stays upright once I righten her, and sits there for me to jump in, while other times I righten her, and she capsizes again on top of me. I got a bit freaked one day when she tried to sit on top of me, so now fear each capsize will be the latter. So, when the boat does this, how do you stop it recapsizing on top of you and when is it that it tries to do this (ie does it roll on top of you when it is upside head to wind, away from the wind etc)?

 

 

Thanks in advance

[otto 31]

"effect using the cunningham would do "

Definately cunningham, this will reduce the draught in the sail

 

"pinch and feather the main or play the main to keep her flat"

All three in strong gusts depending on your weight, keep the boat flat, work the main with heaps of kicker upwind and feather it if needed while steering to the waves.

Top of the wave often needs a bit of ease in the main.

 

Top mark make sure the kicker/vang is eased or you'll struggle to bear away.

Needs to have pressure on it or you'll start rolling dead downwind.

downwind a gust should have you bearing away and keeping the boat flat making sure the bow stays free and not buried in a wave

 

Capsize, as soon as the boat starts coming up reach in and let the kicker go if possible. when righting it don't pull it up to quick at the last moment so as it swings through the eye of the wind.

 

Gybing, don't have the kicker to tight especially in a starling as that's when the mast bends.

Crossing over the centre line and dipping the leward side will also drop the mainsheet into the water resulting in it looped around your transom.

Ideally a gybe is done going down a wave or at max speed, not when you slow and the sail is full.

 

2 dvd's that are good are "the boat whisperer" one for upwind and one downwind.

while based on laser sailing a lot would aslo be relevant for a starling.

Great boats

[203 0]

Hi

 

I sail a farr 3.7, Which is just a turboed starling with a bit of extra width and length, I have never sailed a starling, But The 3.7 is a very very tippy boat, for its sail area, So I am in the same spot as you.So your not alone! But do not fear! You will get there

 

I spent two seasons getting professional coaching my a top laser sailor when I sailed laser, I could take the skills that I had learned in it, And then go to the 3.7, You just have to adapt to it.

 

In the gusts, Ease your mainsheet out, And try keep the boat a little bit flatter, Instead of it heeling over, This will help keep for speed through-out it.The only thing different with me that I do, Is I dont use very much vang in strong winds, Thus letting the top of the sail twist right off, Im not sure if its the same in the starling, But you can always have a go!

With regards to the Cunningham Crank it on as the wind builds to depower the boat, Cunningham flattens out the top of the sail, Vang flattens out the middle and outhaul the bottom, If it was really 30kts, You should of had all of these cranked. This is depowering the main and making the boat easier to handle.

 

Now, Time for downwind sailing!

 

If you are sailing in heavy wind downwind, Keep the outhaul and cunno cranked on, But ease your vang right off, This will in theory let the head of the main twist off, And depower the boat again, If you have to much vang on going through a gybe, You will most likely snap your boom, Or snap your mast! The mast will be the first to go,So make sure the vang is eased right off!

You have to have ultra quick tiller responses, And you never want large movements of the tiller, Small ones, So the tiller moves towards you or away maybe 1 inch at the most, You will be surprised at how much to boat turns when going fast, Having the small movements will help stop the boat spinning out of control.you also have to have quick movements of your body, You will get there trust me

 

with regards to the boat coming over ontop of you, Its because you have brought it up with the wind on the wrong side of the boat, You can either wait for the boat to spin round, so your facing downwind, or try anyway,

Another technique we use is to roll with the boat, Your probably thinking what the hell,But it works! As the boat comes up, Take a breath, and go underneath still holding the centerboard, Then pop up for more air, This will stop the boat from going back over, Its all about experimenting, And you will learn.

 

Where abouts do you sail at?

 

Wait till you sail a boat with a trapeze! You will get a good soaking then

[madyottie 82]

I had a longer detailed version of this, but the system timed me out. twice. Pain. If I can get motivated I'll try a third time later.

 

Upwind...

Cunningham bends the mast, allowing the sail to flick in gusts. Makes it easier, and prevents roundups. Use it lots.

 

Outhaul flattens the bottom of the sail. Reduces drag, makes the boat faster in big winds. Use it a lot.

 

Kicker. Flattens the top of the sail, and tightens the leech, until the sail inverts(long deep creases from the clew to the middle of the mast). Pull it on to depower, but ease it again in survival conditions.

 

Hike hard and play the mainsheet to keep speed on. Pinch in flat water, drive around big waves using your body movement.

 

Downwind, make sure you have let the cunningham right off - otherwise you'll probably deathroll. On a run, have moderate kicker only.

 

Steer by the lee for 30 seconds, then broad reach for 30 seconds, then by the lee again. Try to to the turns by heel instead of rudder. Practise this a lot, it'll make a huge difference to your results. When I say BTL or BR, I'm only talking maybe 10 degrees off course. Most good guys never actually sail straight downwind, it just looks that way.

 

Gybing - it's in your head. Commit to it....

 

Here's how ...

 

Sail downwind, fast. kicker loose-ish. Lock your front foot against the side tank. Hold the tiller extension in a dagger grip,not like a frying pan. Heel the boat to windward. Hard. It will automatically spin into a gybe. Watch the corner of the sail, by the bottom batten. The sail will go limp, then fold here. Now pump the mainsheet sharply. As the boom comes over, Stand up. With the boat heeled over, this puts you pretty close to the new side, so park your butt on it, and get a foot under a strap. This bit has to be fast, you need to be there with the boat flattening out before the sail hits the shroud/mainsheet. Sort your hands/feet/ropes/sticks out. Smile as you watch the next guy fall over. Sail away.

 

And if you need a coach, most of us are happy to help out free of charge for a little while, so take your pick and try your luck. Just one other bit of advise - Don't believe everything you read on here, and don't be afraid to question your "coach" on relevant stuff. If they cant answer it satisfactorily after a few minutes, question the "relationship".

 

But above all, have fun, try stuff out, even if everyone else thinks it's a dumb idea. Like when I learned to sail in the early '80s, I was the only person I know of practising "carve" gybing in a starling. Our local sailors used to mock me for it, and now it's universally accepted, and often referred to as a rollgybe. Did I invent it? I'll never know, but 30 years on I still like to think so!

[Guest]

Heel the boat to windward. Hard. It will automatically spin into a gybe.

 

Can you explain this part further to me? How does heeling the boat swing the boom across? Ta

[Guest]

I sail a starling and was racing in 30 knot winds in the weekend, and found myself sometimes making no headway upwind in the big gusts with the boat stalling and rounding up head to wind.

 

Is the reason that you were rounding up that you had no headway, and therefore, the weather helm (exacerbated by the strong wind) that your boat naturally has wasn't being counteracted by the rudder?

[phillyjad 0]

Hi

 

Thanks for your replies - they have being very helpful, and I can now see why using the cunningham would have helped depower my sail, and how I could have stopped rounding up.

 

Madyotie - when you mentioned sailing by the lee for 30 secs then broad reaching for 30 secs downwind, are you doing this at random, or in relation to gusts and lulls or the wave angle?

 

Also, just one further question about downwind in heavy airs, how much do you raise the centreboard, and does this make a difference to the stability, and control of the boat?

 

I will definitely try the ideas mentioned and get a bit braver about the downwind legs and gybes. In answer to your question 203, I sail mainly at the furtherest north club in NZ (Taipa) where we usually have great weather. However there are very few competitive starling sailors Whangarei North so for sailing against other starlings, I have to travel further afield, so I'm still trying to work out the racing scene part and the big fleets!

 

Thanks again

[madyottie 82]

Madyotie - when you mentioned sailing by the lee for 30 secs then broad reaching for 30 secs downwind, are you doing this at random, or in relation to gusts and lulls or the wave angle?

 

Ideally, you'd match this to waves and wind angle, but in the real world it's usually a bit more random, and the timing of the turns is more controlled by when you can do it safely. Probably the main thing is deciding which way is going to get you closest to the mark, and spending a bit more time going that way.

 

When you make the turns, try to be aggressive about rolling the boat, and allow the rudder to follow along, rather than using the rudder to turn the boat. Which in relation to GP's question....

Heel the boat to windward. Hard. It will automatically spin into a gybe.

 

Can you explain this part further to me? How does heeling the boat swing the boom across? Ta

 

Remember that my earlier response was aimed at Phillyjads Starling, so the technique may need tweaking to suit your boat, but here goes...

 

When you heel the boat over, two things happen that contribute to this.

Firstly, the whole rig is put out to one side, which is like a giant lever, so it pushes the boat around. The bigger the lean, the bigger the lever. Picture those old IOR keelboats broaching under spinnaker.

 

The second part is a bit harder to explain, and applies more when the heel is moderate. Picture the hull from above - ignoring the point at one end, and flat bit at the other, you have two giant curves. Whichever one of these is pushed into the water acts like a giant shallow rudder, trying to push the water in a curve too. Of course, our boat is a lot lighter than the ocean, so the boat turns instead. IE, lean left, turn right and vice-versa.

 

As for helping the boom across, it doesn't really do this, the boom goes when the wind gets behind the sail enough. What it does do, on a boat like a laser or starling, is effectively increase the headroom below the boom, making it easier to get across, because with the boat heeled over, the deck is closer to vertical, so you don't need to move in a horizontal plane as much.

 

The one downside to what I described is that the margin for error is slightly less in terms of timing, because the boat is already half-way capsized. Everything else is easier this way.

 

Hope that helps!

Aaron.

[Guest]

its been a long time since I sailed a starling, but one thing we do on the sportsboats in big breeze especially when 2 sail reaching and gybing, is to think of the gybe as part of an S curve; we try to gybe is maximum breeze at maximum speed preferably on a wave surfing, and we turn down the wave and go through the eye of the wind as quick as possible heeling the boat slightly to windward or flat; speed is your friend here. We pull the boom over using the mainsheet and as it comes over the weight goes across the boat and we immediately are bearing away again as the boom comes over.

 

If you have a GPS you would be amazed how easy it is to come out 'hot' on the new gybe, and as a result the boat is now wanting to heel like crazy because the whole rig is completely powered up.

 

So this is the S path, go through the gybe then immediately bear away as the boom comes over rather than continuing to go around.

 

Going out to practise this, we go out and will sometimes do 50 tacks and 50 gybes, and of course, a SB is so easy by comparison since it has lead under it, but being calm and confident going into it and knowing the motion, its like riding a bike; do it lots of times and then it isn't difficult.

[Guest]

Gybing in a starling....

 

I certainly used to (and still do in the 3.7) steer the boat using my body weight downwind. You know you've got it when you feel like you are telling the boat what to do, instead of reacting to the waves trying to keep the boat under the mast.

 

I would definitely roll gybe in moderate breeze, but in the heavy I think it is a lot better to keep the boat flat. If you go into the gybe with any heel the boom hits the water, the boat rounds up and you are screwed.

- Lift the centreboard up to stop the boat from tripping over it - this will make a bigger difference than you think, but will make the boat unstable so drop it back down afterwards.

- Always gybe when going down a wave. This is when the boat is going the fastest and the load in the sail will be less. I know it feels natural to gybe when the boat slows down but it just makes things harder.

- Sheet the sail in three handfuls, then give it a pump when the leech flicks. This will give YOU control of when the boom goes over instead of waiting for the wind. When you have the hang of it you will be able to feel when this happens. When the boom goes over, let the sheet slip through your hand a short way so it doesnt shock load so much.

- When you go through the gybe, make sure your ass is on the new side BEFORE the load comes on the mainsheet. Even if you are still leaning in to keep your weight in the middle, if your ass is on the side you will survive the gybe.