Whaling

[BelowPAR 0]

I do not agree with the Nips being down south Whaling however I also bear in mind that what they are doing is actually not Illegal.

 

Im fairly sure it is quite illegal. The memorandum signed by a whole load of nations (including Japan) makes it downright illegal to hunt/kill whales. The Japanese just exploit a loop hole allowing a quota for research. So to prove it is illegal, all ya have to do is track the whale meat to the nearest sushi bar and wella (not quite that simple, but if you REALLY wanted to... Much like what Australia is in the process of doing. Norway and Iceland are slightly different, as Norway did not sign, or have an special allowance or something, and so its not illegal for them, and Iceland did some funky stuff, signed it, removed themselves, then rejoined under some clause that was the same as the Norwegiens.

 

Good article around somewhere (i think it was Listener), A gang threatens that they are going to rob 10 houses in the next year, or if the Police dont give them any trouble, they will only rob 5. Do you let them steal, and protect 5 households? Or not.

[Guest]

This is very funny

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AILT5qumfEg&NR=1

[Guest Dry Reach]

Those farms kill the local environment so are far from as squeaky clean as they like to appear.

No way! KM. the locals earn heaps from them ! and also the enviroments they are in are handling the farms well.

 

Mussels - tory channel! no problems their except ferry wash, 1080 run off and boatie pollution

 

Kingfish - Whangarei! all done in tanks with not enviromental issues.

 

Westhaven marina's residual TBT and Cuprous Oxide pollution is more of a problem than all fish farming together.

 

Us boaties enviromental foot print is not clean green by any means!.

 

As a matter of fact we could well be second worst to motor racing?

[Guest]

Ahhh..DR I think you need to look a bit deeper. The research is very clearly showing intensive fish farming does seriously damage the local environment. That's why many are now being farmed out in the deeper ocean rather than bays and harbours.

 

You go look around one of those pens. Everything is dead.

[Guest]

Is there still a ban on catching blue cod in the Marlborough Sounds? Has there been any research into a link between the drop in Cod and the tonnes of Mussels being removed from the water there?

[Guest Dry Reach]

Is there still a ban on catching blue cod in the Marlborough Sounds? Has there been any research into a link between the drop in Cod and the tonnes of Mussels being removed from the water there?

 

Cod reduction is due to over fishing!

[Guest Dry Reach]

Ahhh..DR I think you need to look a bit deeper. The research is very clearly showing intensive fish farming does seriously damage the local environment. That's why many are now being farmed out in the deeper ocean rather than bays and harbours.

 

You go look around one of those pens. Everything is dead.

 

 

looked very deep with King salmon and Niwa officials and Niwa reports no issues. Also think you will find water cleanliness is very good.

 

Especially Kingfish and paua farms that are in tanks on land! there has ben no pollution of surrounding land!

[Guest Dry Reach]

Ahhh..DR I think you need to look a bit deeper. The research is very clearly showing intensive fish farming does seriously damage the local environment. That's why many are now being farmed out in the deeper ocean rather than bays and harbours.

 

You go look around one of those pens. Everything is dead.

 

 

looked very deep with King salmon and Niwa officials and Niwa reports no issues. Also think you will find water cleanliness is very good.

 

Especially Kingfish and paua farms that are in tanks on land! there has ben no pollution of surrounding land!

[Guest]

Says who, the mussel farmers or the scientists?

[Guest]

No particular stance from me, as I am not up on this but a quick Google and came up with this,so thanks guys now I have to spend tonight educating myself so I will know who to dissagree with.

•Organic waste (fish wastes and excess food) from open net fish farms pollute the water locally, depleting water of oxygen and creating a dead zone under and near the farm.

•Chemicals used to treat fish diseases are released into the surrounding water, killing wild species.

•Farmed fish, often not native to the area they’re being farmed in, frequently escape into the wild.

•Crowded fish in open net farms are susceptible to diseases and sea lice, and pass them on to wild fish.

•Farmed fish are fed with wild fish—there are more wild fish consumed than farmed fish produced.

 

 

Read more at Suite101: Fish Farms and the Environment http://www.suite101.com/blog/rdrisdelle ... z0re0tB2Bf

 

More herehttp://www.suite101.com/blog/rdrisdelle/fish_farms_and_the_environment

[wheels 543]

That list is possible elswhere in the world. This is an area I know a little about.

First off, NIWA doesn't really have a hell of a lot to do with Salmon farming here in Marlborough. King Salmon have been running for the 20yrs I have been here.

KM, is right, that under the pens, the Seafloor is dead. But in saying that, the area taken up by the pens is not huge, for the number of fish farmed. So i guess if you put that into the equation, maybe yoiu can call it intensive farming on a small footprint.

So far in NZ, we do not have species that are not here in NZ waters anyway. MAF simply will not allow a foreign species of fish to be farmed here in NZ unless extensive testing has been done to see how evasive they are in the first place. Carp and Cat fish were two species that MAF stopped from being Farmed here because of the threat if either got into the wild. A couple of guys have struggled for years just to farm species of Fresh water cray that MAF have battled them on.

The waste from the intensive Fish level us a problem. So most Farms now are being placed into areas with a bit of current flow. That has solved sopme big issues there. The food is a none issue here. What the clever lads at King Salmon do is they have an underwater camera under the feed hopper. It is at the bottom of the pen looking up. when the hopper starts, the Fish go nuts and swim around in a circle eating the pellets as the float down. Once the Fish are full and slow down their eating, the Pellets get lower down in the water column. As soon as pellets land on the camera lens, the hopper is stopped. That way they don't waste food and the food does not fall to the bottom of the net.

The pellets are not fish as such. Yes there is fish meal in them, but they have a lot of other stuff in it as well, including Grains.

They don't put chemicals into the water here for fighting diseases. They do however, remove dead fish from the bottom of the pens daily. It is quite a high number of fish that die. these tend to be the weak ones and in the wild, the week tend to be the slow and so also tend to become a bigger fishes lunch. So hence why you don't see dead fish lying on the bottom in the wild so much.

The only times fish escape are when they get big sharks come in and the Sharks cut through the net. Last year one pen got attacked and they lost 60,000 Salmon.

So it's not that bad really. At least here in NZ. So if that article was refering to overseas practices, then it is possible, i really don't know what they do over there. But here in NZ, it is certainly a far better and more Sustainable practice.

 

Mussel Farms are a little different again. Ceratinly here in the Sounds, we have deep water and strong currents. So the ground beneath is not such an issue as I could imagine some places perhaps being. Certainly when the harversters are working though, the Seabed comes alive with snapper coming in for a feed. So it is a little more alive under them here.

[smithy09 50]

All good debate guys and a learning experience for this townie!

[Guest Dry Reach]

Says who, the mussel farmers or the scientists?

 

 

I'm talking fish! as in salmon and Kingfish! you guys are talking Mussel farms.

 

Yes mussel farms are an issue but Fish farms "on shore" do not pollute the sea bed as there aint no sea bed in a tank.

 

and read this and the sections on fin fish and you will see what realyy happen with farmed fish versus mussells in the sea....

 

http://www.aquaculture.org.nz/userfiles ... n%20nz.pdf

 

and these comments extracted from the site...

 

 

(sorry to pee on your parade!)

 

Finfish

As finfish do not pose the same level of food safety risk as shellfish, the regulatory

requirements are a lot less. New Zealand has very good quality seawater in most

areas for fish farming, which means farmers do not need to use pharmaceutical drugs

to ensure healthy fish.

 

 

and this...

 

http://www.fao.org/fishery/legalframewo ... zealand/en.

 

Hey 3021, did'nt you see these when you found googled your site ref?

[wheels 543]

Yes mussel farms are an issue but Fish farms "on shore" do not pollute the sea bed as there aint no sea bed in a tank.

DR, my post was about Salmon.

We don't have tank farmed Fish in NZ( it would have to be a hell of a big tank), apart from breeding the little things (What are they called? Fry??) till they are big enough to be released into the open water Pens or rivers. We do have river Farms for Salmon and I am not sure, but maybe trout also.

[Guest Dry Reach]

That list is possible elswhere in the world. This is an area I know a little about.

First off, NIWA doesn't really have a hell of a lot to do with Salmon farming here in Marlborough. King Salmon have been running for the 20yrs I have been here.

KM, is right, that under the pens, the Seafloor is dead. But in saying that, the area taken up by the pens is not huge, for the number of fish farmed. So i guess if you put that into the equation, maybe yoiu can call it intensive farming on a small footprint.

So far in NZ, we do not have species that are not here in NZ waters anyway. MAF simply will not allow a foreign species of fish to be farmed here in NZ unless extensive testing has been done to see how evasive they are in the first place. Carp and Cat fish were two species that MAF stopped from being Farmed here because of the threat if either got into the wild. A couple of guys have struggled for years just to farm species of Fresh water cray that MAF have battled them on.

The waste from the intensive Fish level us a problem. So most Farms now are being placed into areas with a bit of current flow. That has solved sopme big issues there. The food is a none issue here. What the clever lads at King Salmon do is they have an underwater camera under the feed hopper. It is at the bottom of the pen looking up. when the hopper starts, the Fish go nuts and swim around in a circle eating the pellets as the float down. Once the Fish are full and slow down their eating, the Pellets get lower down in the water column. As soon as pellets land on the camera lens, the hopper is stopped. That way they don't waste food and the food does not fall to the bottom of the net.

The pellets are not fish as such. Yes there is fish meal in them, but they have a lot of other stuff in it as well, including Grains.

They don't put chemicals into the water here for fighting diseases. They do however, remove dead fish from the bottom of the pens daily. It is quite a high number of fish that die. these tend to be the weak ones and in the wild, the week tend to be the slow and so also tend to become a bigger fishes lunch. So hence why you don't see dead fish lying on the bottom in the wild so much.

The only times fish escape are when they get big sharks come in and the Sharks cut through the net. Last year one pen got attacked and they lost 60,000 Salmon.

So it's not that bad really. At least here in NZ. So if that article was refering to overseas practices, then it is possible, i really don't know what they do over there. But here in NZ, it is certainly a far better and more Sustainable practice.

 

Mussel Farms are a little different again. Ceratinly here in the Sounds, we have deep water and strong currents. So the ground beneath is not such an issue as I could imagine some places perhaps being. Certainly when the harversters are working though, the Seabed comes alive with snapper coming in for a feed. So it is a little more alive under them here.

 

 

Yip spot on. I guess the Aucklanders can only relate to there fish farms. in the sounds the water in tory channel etc is deep and moves well.

[Guest]

And all the experts said Nuclear reactors are safe as house and Thalidomide was perfectly safe also. Good experts they turned out to be and knot surprisingly most were paid by Nuc or Medical companies.

 

You can't quote an industry source as being an authority on itself. As if they are ever going to say 'we are knot good for the local environment'.

 

On land in tanks or ponds is no worries obviously. But there is a growing amount of evidence that shows intensive open water aquaculture isn't that crash hot for it's neighbours. That applies both to fin fish and shell fish alike. A lot of this is relatively new and I'm sure the farmers will change systems to minimise the impact.

 

Ahh.... Mr Wheels, we do have a lot of fin fish growing in tanks in NZ. There's a huge pile of Kingis in tanks at Marsden Point for example. Try sussing NIWA as I think they are in on that one. At least I hope so, we just sent a huge pile of buoys and mooring systems to NIWA there

[wheels 543]

Yeah? are they growing them to full size?? Can you sneek in at night with a Rod and lure???

[Guest Dry Reach]

Yes mussel farms are an issue but Fish farms "on shore" do not pollute the sea bed as there aint no sea bed in a tank.

DR, my post was about Salmon.

We don't have tank farmed Fish in NZ( it would have to be a hell of a big tank), apart from breeding the little things (What are they called? Fry??) till they are big enough to be released into the open water Pens or rivers. We do have river Farms for Salmon and I am not sure, but maybe trout also.

yeah wheels not talking about you. i had not seen your post until i had submitted that reply.

 

and yes we do have tanked paua, Kingfish, trout, and i think Salmon.

 

Country calender had the kingfish and paua farms on a couple of weeks ago.

 

Trout is kept at various ages at Tongaririo.

[Guest Dry Reach]

Bact to topic.

 

The big moral / ethical question

 

if giiven the choice would you save 100 rare whales or 100o starving childeren in South Africa?

 

i would be interested in your choice and why.

 

For me i would save the whales as humans are "here forever", and can look after themselves in a planet that humans have controlled and "stuffed up".

[wheels 543]

It is a very slippery path to go down the "Human race should be controlled" business. Several had a go at it in the past and their names are now deeply and vividly etched in History. Unfortunatly not in a positive way though. The big issue is who decides and the person/s that do, therefore by default consider themselves superior. Even though they have a greater good perhaps at heart. And what if it was BS that got to decide and he decides all NZ'ers should go. I can tell you, I wouldn't be going without one hell of a fight.

The only selfless choice that could be made, is for that person that decides, actually decides that it is themselves that needs to step off the Planet for the greater good. Unfortunatly or fortunatly, Mankind seems to view that as Suicide and it is shund upon.

Personally I do not believe the issue is with too many people on planet Earth. The issue is with the the attitude of the people on Planet Earth. Greed. Which in some respects comes about from a simplistic animal view of, "Survival of the fittest". Which to Mankind translates as, "screw others before they can get a chance to crew you". Some also seem to think that The Human Race is an actual race that is won by the person that accumulates the most at the expense of the least. And hey, if I am honest, I have to count myself amongst the Runners.