K4309
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Posts posted by K4309
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22 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:
The actual data does not agree with you.
The Water Safety Council produced a report in 2023 in response to a very high rate of drowning in 2022.
24 people drowned in incidents related to watercraft in 2022.
The majority were middle aged white men.
The majority were in coastal or beach settings north of the Bombay hills.
Your prejudices aside, the people drowning look like us, and are doing stuff we do. They just had all the holes in the cheese line up.
A reminder that our ACC system pays 5 years income to the dependents of a person who dies in an accident. So, leaving aside any other financial and economic loss, each preventable death costs about $350,000 in ACC death coverage alone. Probably more given the demographic.
The reality is this law will be enforced in a hyper targeted way simply because there is no capacity to enforce it widely. I expect boat ramp checks at known problem locations, and on water checks of obviously problematic situations. The only other use of the law will probably be in courts after the fact of a death where a life jacket may have prevented it.
This makes it no different to the law around vehicle warrants of fitness. Except that, there is currently no ability to impose a penalty if you are in breach of the law. That will come in later regulatory changes.
As expected, those stats are largely meaningless and don't touch on the comment I made, specifically that "it is not recreational sailors that are dieing. And not people going short distances in inflatable boats from yachts to shore."
The 10 year average for the "Powered Craft" category which includes yachts and tenders with outboards, is 12% of all drownings. As BP noted, drownings in that category is heavily influenced by one off multiple fatality events like the Enchanter sinking.
The other catagories are:
- Swimming / Wading: ~33%
- Accidental Immersion (Slips/Falls): ~22% to 32%
- Powered Boating: ~ 11% to 12%
- Land-Based Fishing: ~11%
- Non-Powered Craft: ~4%
I must say the Non-powered craft category is lower than I thought (pink swans and cheap plastic kayaks from Torpedo 7).
But when you see that land based fishing has the same proportion of drownings to all powered boating, I feel that clearly supports my statement, combined with 2/3rds of drownings coming from 'falls' and 'swimming / wading'.
There isn't Water Safety NZ data for drownings from yachts (a subset of powered craft), but google says:
In New Zealand, drownings associated with sailing yachts are remarkably rare, accounting for an average of only 1% to 2% of total preventable drownings annually
I will acknowledge that the Water Safety NZ report did state that a huge proportion of drownings from "powered craft" were not wearing a LJ (88%), however, considering that category also includes single event multiple fatalities like the Enchanter and other examples of large boats well over the new 6m limit, I'd posit this law is largely performative and isn't going to have any statistically significant impact on drownings.
Remember, 2/3rds (67%) of drownings are falls or swimming / wading, compared with 1-2% from yachts.
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45 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:
nope, the stats are from the Water Safety Coucil. They output the data every year. The interpretation is theirs, not mine, which is why I linked the screenshot of the graph from their report.
But they certainly don't support a view that its weed smoking, overweight poachers and the edge dwellers of society that are drowning for lack of a lift jacket. Although they are there too.It s not clutching at straws to point out the real financial cost of a drowning. In a society where we have reduced everything to a balance sheet and cashflow statement, its probably the only thing that matters. Drownings are expensive. Law is relatively cheap.
Your stats report drownings by age and ethnicity.
They don't report drownings by activity...
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4 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:
The actual data does not agree with you.
The Water Safety Council produced a report in 2023 in response to a very high rate of drowning in 2022.
24 people drowned in incidents related to watercraft in 2022.
The majority were middle aged white men.
The majority were in coastal or beach settings north of the Bombay hills.
Your prejudices aside, the people drowning look like us, and are doing stuff we do. They just had all the holes in the cheese line up.
A reminder that our ACC system pays 5 years income to the dependents of a person who dies in an accident. So, leaving aside any other financial and economic loss, each preventable death costs about $350,000 in ACC death coverage alone. Probably more given the demographic.
The reality is this law will be enforced in a hyper targeted way simply because there is no capacity to enforce it widely. I expect boat ramp checks at known problem locations, and on water checks of obviously problematic situations. The only other use of the law will probably be in courts after the fact of a death where a life jacket may have prevented it.
This makes it no different to the law around vehicle warrants of fitness. Except that, there is currently no ability to impose a penalty if you are in breach of the law. That will come in later regulatory changes.
Those stats don't even mention what I was commenting on.
C'mon.
At best, the reflect general societal demographics, with a skew towards who actually goes boating.
All your stats cover is drowning fatalities. Not what the activity was immediately prior to the drowning, which was what I was commenting on.
And, to be honest, it really sounds like you are clutching at straws to justify yet another law if the best reason you can point towards is ACC costs.
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On 5/09/2026 at 9:43 AM, Psyche said:
As I keep saying politics is performance art....
The solution to all problems is to make a law- job done, problem solved and the minister can score points. The real work which is much harder is boating education, I agree with the termite muncher- its not going to be a big deal until they decide to make a point of it. However this is a catch all law that treats all people as fundamentally stupid! Do we really need instructions from Wellington? lifejacket on a sunny day 100m to beach - not going to happen while I can swim.
My understanding from the stats is, it is not recreational sailors that are dieing. And not people going short distances in inflatable boats from yachts to shore.
Its the muppets that got an inflatable beach toy / paddle board / pink swan thing from Mighty Ape or K Mart that do drown while trying to use it 100m from the beach.
The other major demographic is rock fishermen. Which this law doesn't cover.
The only other significant demographic is fizz boat that suddenly capsize. That is either on bar crossings (loads of education there) or random events. Often sudden waves / getting caught out in a weather change, or forgetting to put the bung in cause you were too busy smoking weed.
There is also the subset of people that take the shittiest boat they can, overload it with their huge mates and target as much illegal fishing as they can. Poachers. Don't think they will bother with this rule either.
In terms of national good, this law is not going to shift the dial.
Meanwhile, how many kids (and adults) are getting traumatic brain injuries on these electric scooters and electric motorbikes without wearing helmets. They can easily do 50km plus, yet there is no law for helmets there. In terms of benefits, looking at stuff like that is going to have a far greater impact on health costs, and social costs of serious injuries and death.
And of course we won't mention the suicide stats. Far easier to pass what is a performative and largely pointless law that makes the pollies look like they actually care.
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3 hours ago, Priscilla II said:
About 9min 42s you can see Clockworks keel bulb out of the water.
Remarkably good video.
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2 hours ago, waikiore said:
Surprising that no bits have washed ashore...
It was blowing Easterly when it was abandoned.
Given the prevailing weather, especially the few days after it was abandoned, I'm not surprise there is no sign of it. Would have been mid Tasman relatively quickly. Blown away from NZ at the least.
And that is assuming it stayed afloat. I get mixed up exactly why they abandoned, but wasn't there talk of water ingress around the shaft seals etc? Or am I assuming that from the line around the prop leaving the wharf?
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Anyone ever tried common or garden variety paint stripper?
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13 hours ago, grant said:
Looing at the Copper coat thread i had a look at the HullWell website and saw the DeFoul? I sanded a few years of antifoul of last time out of the water but have more to go next time, curious if anyone has tried this ?
DeFoul Antifoul Removal — HullWell Advanced Marine Coating Technology New Zealand (NZ)
A long time ago we tried something like that. It was like a goo, you paint it onto the AF and leave it for a while.
I can't remember the brand name. You needed to stop it drying out, as in try and cover it with cling film or something. It softened the AF but didn't actually remove it. Overall didn't save much labour and the benefits didn't offset the cost of the product. Think we did a test patch (about 1m square I think) and determined it was just easier and quicker to get stuck in with the old fashioned scrapper.
BUT, this was so long ago all of the details are extremely fuzzy. So don't take what I say as gospel. Would have been at least 15 years ago, as we are on our 2nd round of copper coat.
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13 hours ago, Quattro said:
The Chch guy came back with a quote of just under 4k. The online measure app indicated i need 8 litres but he came back with 10. All good info thanks. I've got a few months up my sleeve but it's all good knowledge
What size is your boat?
My 37ft with a relatively narrow beam used 10 units I think, but we ordered 11.
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3 hours ago, Quattro said:
Good stuff to hear. I'm going to do it. Any info on where to get CC or any NZ equivalent?
The CC guy is based in Chch, no pricing on his website so you need to get hold of him. Link below.
We've had CC twice now, last applied in 2021.
As an aside, I did a lot of work looking into alternatives and antifouls that worked. I discussed my specific situation (high fouling river mooring) with a sales manager / rep for an AF company and the CC guy. Both offered not insignificant discounts to 'assist' with my decision making. So if you talk nicely but prevaricate a bit on placing the order, you might get a helpful discount.
As an aside, I'd be interested in what the pricing is for CC now. It is highly depended on the price of copper, given each one litre unit has something like 2.2kg (I think) of copper powder in it.
PS, the rollers he recommended were sh*t (some tiny little thing). We went with standard Bunnings ones of the appropriate nap. Get strong roller handles, and have a spare handle or two, the CC is heavy to apply and you want a contingency if one breaks.
On performance, we've been nailed by barnacles this year. My perception is that CC will get a light slime fairly quickly (2-4 weeks) then not much else happens for 6 ish months. The key advantage is it's hard, so you can clean it as often as you want, in the water, out of the water, with a high powered water plaster or just a plastering trowel. Plastic plastering trowels are ideal, but if you have barnacles steel trowels handle them better.
Should last 8 years in warm water like Auckland, 10 years in cold water like Britain.
Coppercoat Antifoul — HullWell Advanced Marine Coating Technology New Zealand (NZ)
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16 hours ago, Quattro said:
Great. Did you apply it yourself?
I've applied in myself twice.
I would recommend that over using a professional - for the primary reason to make sure the climatic conditions are good when you are doing the application. Professionals have a schedule to keep to so they are more motivated to paint when the weather isn't quite right. That is assuming you have flexibility with your personal time and are using a reasonable priced hard stand say at a club rather than the bonkers rip off commercial hard stands.
You need to make sure the hull is properly dry. We had a slight issue on one side of the keel with the CC blistering. This would have been on the shaded side and would have been colder, being lead, holding a bit of moisture. That moisture gets trapped under the CC and eventually blisters. Note, we aren't talking about wet surfaces, just the subtilties of relative humidity and dampness.
You'd want a relatively warm and dry day, preferably with not too much wind. Applying it is relatively straight forward, 4 coats of wet on tacky. 2 people can comfortably do a 37 fter. Have a table set out with all your gear for mixing, a clock and a note paper to record when you mix a batch, dwell time before applying and how long it takes to for you to paint it on, so you can get the timing right for mixing the next batch. It is a thick viscous product so a mechanical mixer is handy, and make sure you get the appropriate type of roller (I can't remember which type). Both product temp and air temp influence how viscous the product is and how fast it goes tacky etc.
The hull prep is the hard work. If you were going to use a professional I'd use it for that job, unless you get joy from scrapping old antifoul off hulls for days on end
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1 hour ago, aardvarkash10 said:
Paranoid=/=Cynical
Cynic=/=effective critical thinker
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3 hours ago, waikiore said:
Frustrating to see Spain going so well on Saturday -then not even out there Sunday with no explanation till afterwards -hydraulic issues? So no fault of their own they are out, the league definitely needs spare boats if they are to continue with good meaningful races, great to see Phil Robertson using the rules .
Phil Robertson is reckless.
He'll kill someone if he carries on how he is.
Remember when AUS ran over the finish mark in Lyttleton and smashed their front beam off? That was Phil Robertson bumping AUS up when he was driving for Canada.
Their is a reason teams drop him and he can't hold a gig for longer than a season.
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On 30/05/2026 at 1:49 PM, Island Time said:
Same way some people think they can out-think an industrial chemist. Or an epidemiologist with vaccines for that matter! It's nonsense 🙄
And some people believe everything the podium of truth tells them.
RIP critical thinking.
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51 minutes ago, motorb said:
These Weiti barnacles are insane! Seems to be a lot of spawn in the water there and up around Kawau.
We never had anything like this level of fouling at westhaven, but thats different water in a different location ( and maybe all the road runoff plus 40 odd years of old school antifoul contamination has something to do with it...)
Oddly enough, closing the second entrance actually helped reduce fouling for us while we were there. Maybe it's the silt passing through on the tides that feeds the barnacles?
Yeah,
I understand there is a major difference in fouling in the marinas with stale water and practically no water turnover, compared to estuary / river type moorings like Opua and Weiti (and many in between) that have high nutrients and high water flow.
Perhaps the marinas are still benefitting from the bio-accumulation of all the old antifouls that actually worked? and being marinas in never gets flushed out, unlike the river that is teaming with life (both in the environment and on our hulls).
Next time I dry out on the grids, I'm seriously thinking of putting a post on one of the Bucket People pages, get a boat load of marine organism scavengers to come down and strip the hull clean. I could even charge for it, given hull cleaning is still permitted, but Bucket Peopling has been banned around the wider coastline. Win / win really.
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3 hours ago, Psyche said:
The only issue with coppercoat for a race boat is getting a good finish.
I've applied CC to my boat twice now. Never had any issues with getting a good enough finish. That is unless you're the type of guy that likes to polish the entire hull with 300 grit wet and dry sandpaper. For us, the CC finish has been the same as any conventional AF we've applied. That said, there is no issue with sanding it either, so if you wanted you could sand it baby-bum smooth. I really doubt that makes any difference to boat speed though. My view using 300grit on your hull is more of a psychological effect, either for you, or a psy-op for your competition.
I have heard of poor applications of CC, randomly those are all connected to professional applicators. Black Panther being the most salient example. I think the professional applicators are always under time pressure with their schedule, and boat owners paying moonbeams for commercial hard stand, where as DIY applicators have far more flexibility to make sure the weather / climatic conditions are ideal for application. Warm enough, and low humidity so the hull, and especially the lead parts of the keel are warm enough and thus properly dry. I believe that is what influences the surface finish quality (warmth and thus viscosity of the resin component), moisture on the surface affects adhesion longer term.
Currently we are getting acceptable performance from CC regards biofouling, but we are getting nuked by barnacles (Weiti). But for context, guys who wash at the same frequency as us and use Altex #5 I think (a common, popular ablative AF, possibly Warpaint) are getting nuked exactly the same as we are. It's those damn northern boats bringing down the carnivorous barnacles from Opua 🙃
Other than the massive savings in haul out costs, the major benefit of CC is that it is hard, and you can clean it as often as you like. Obviously that benefit applies to other hard AF's as well. But CC is hard and durable for regular cleaning. We use steel scrapers to get the barnacles off and there is no detriment to the actual foul-coating. Being able to clean frequently can be a benefit for racing obviously as well. I think having a freshly clean hull is on the whole more beneficial than one that's had 300grit gone over it. That is all in relation to people using the popular ablative or semi ablative (partially soft) AF's. Very easy to wash off valuable quantities of AF by cleaning it, so people don't clean it as often or as hard.
So basically, in the absence of 100% effective AF's the next best option is mechanical cleaning, as opposed to chemical toxicity. It's like cleaning your roasting dish at home. You can use harsh chemicals, or just scrub the feck out of it with some good old fashioned elbow grease. They both get the roasting dish clean. And if chemical cleaners aren't available, you are only left with the mechanical cleaning option. But for that to work on a boat, you need a hard and durable coating.
Edit: What I would say for a race boat with CC though, is that CC tends to get a light fouling relatively quickly, but then doesn't really change over the next 6 months or so. That is fine for cruising, but if you want a perfect hull with CC, you are probably going to need to clean very frequently, probably every 2-4 weeks. The question then becomes, is there a conventional AF that works better? I'm not aware of one.
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2 hours ago, Psyche said:
Ever since ive had to antifoul boats there have been stories about improvements to AF paints with kitchen sink chemistry. Chilli powder, copper powder, copper sulphate, animal insecticides, anti fungal compounds, herbicides and so on. None have crossed the threshold into accepted regular use, there is a lot of confirmation bias, anecdotes etc and while i have no doubt some may work, for how long and at what cost?
When paying anywhere from 250 to 600 dollars a can, its a bit risky to take a wild guess and add something into very expensive paint and risk degrading it.
I would need some serious proof or do my own test panels but I doubt I could do the paint chemists job better unless I fluked a magic ingredient. They have all the technology, materials and experience!
Agree with your sentiments, but I don't think it's people thinking they are smarter than industrial chemists, it's using compounds that industrial chemists aren't allowed to use, regarding all the govt regulations. There are plenty of compounds / AF that work, we just aren't allowed to use them (and in several cases for good reason).
And I doubt any readily available household items would work. So, the scenario then becomes one where people are deliberately using effective but highly toxic banned compounds. Just getting hold of that stuff is going to be an achievement in itself, given it's all highly controlled and impossible to import etc, etc.
Then, if someone does get something to work, they are knowingly going against regulations and would have had to have put a fair bit of effort into it. I suspect those people are then not going to advertise widely that they are breaking multiple regulations and potentially laws and expose themselves to prosecution, and possibly being criticised by the wider boating community, who tend to want to protect the environment, or at least not want to put nasty toxic compounds into it.
Like the stories you hear of people getting a secret supply of tri-butyl-tin based AF, something from a commercial shipyard or a drum of magic that fell off the back of a truck at the Devonport navy yard. Not that I've heard those sorts of stories recently.
But it is certainly incredibly frustrating when boaties are criticised for spreading all manner of invasive species (which were never anything to do with us) yet it's impossible to keep your hull clean and there are zero effective AF's available.
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1 hour ago, Psyche said:
I'm in favour of Rangi two toes
I always call it Rangi two toes.
Drives my kids nuts, which is why I keep doing it
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Are you talking about while you are on the boat, or leaving the boat unattended from time to time?
My understandings is that there are moorings in the sounds cause a lot of the bays have poor bottoms and geography for anchoring in. That isn't such an issue for NI east coast. The vast majority of places have good holding in reasonable (shallow) depths.
That, and for leaving the boat, there are basically marinas everywhere for parking in if you want to leave the boat unattended for a few days or more - noting that the marinas are criminally expensive now.
There are plenty of moorings spread around the place but are primarily private. If you google 'mooring BnB' there are various platforms to arrange short or long term rentals (I've not used any, there was one that was called something like mooring BnB, I think it went bust, but a google shows there are other similar platforms).
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2 hours ago, Jonquil said:
Pretty major road damage.
Knowing there's a body floating around in there somewhere can't be pleasant either
Mahurangi West Rd closed, so can't get to Sutherlands Bay.
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1 hour ago, ex Elly said:
The Kawau Race Week scheduled for this weekend has just been postponed by one week.
Will now be one race on Fri 30 Jan at 4pm, and 2 races on Sat 31.
However it now clashes with the Squadron Kawau weekend - doh!
Are they postponing due to the forecast? Or risk of flooding debris in the water?
Or to allow BoI race week boats to join in? They might be keen for some racing after the wash-out up there.
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2 hours ago, Frank said:
Right I'm off for a celebratory G and T or maybe two then a call to Norwoods to see if I can get the gaskets cheaper than at Volvo.
How about a celebratory bottle of Loctite?
Is that the sort of thing you put on those types of bolts?
Bet you are happy with that outcome though.
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9 minutes ago, Frank said:
DRUM ROLL PLEASE ............................!!!
Enough with the suspense already...
We've been waiting months, if not years for the latest installment of what is wrong with your engine.
PS, this is better than anything on Netflix at the moment
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New listing with new, lower pricing.
Get yourself a bargain and a humidity free good night's sleep all at the same time:
Portable Aircon - Ecoflow Wave 2 with Battery | Trade Me Motors
Compulsory life jacket wearing
in MarineTalk
Posted
Or,
You get this happening.
Three men were wearing LJ's, went out over a bar, capsized into cold water. Two dead, one taken to hospital
But the law says all you have to do is wear a life jacket, which they did. The fact the water was freezing, the guys were older and the bar rough enough to capsize there boat isn't mentioned in the law.
Never mind about assessing the risks or personal responsibility, the law doesn't say you have to do that, just wear a LJ.
Sure I'm being simplistic, but when a central govt agency asserts responsibility on you for you wellbeing, by it's very nature that reduces your own obligations to assess risks for yourself.
"I've ticked all the boxes, I'm complying with the law, why, then am I dieing?"
Still, as many of us understand, the LJ's did the job as stated by CG, to make it easier to find the bodies...
‘Battling for his life': Witness saw man slip from upturned boat capsized during 'rough' bar crossing | Stuff