Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Slightly off topic, but I struggle to believe cruisers have more disasters/need more help than racers. Way back when this forum first appeared I was bagged for suggesting the racing fraternity was getting too cavalier in their attitude towards rescue (hey if you don't need rescue at least once you aren't trying hard enough) How about a list of boats in the last few years of CC that have had "issues" we could start with Silver Raider. Consider in XS of 600 cruisers arrive and depart NZ every year, how many do the Fiji Race, is it 10 or 12. Nope, I'd need to see some pretty good numbers before I'd accept that. If it is of any interest, last season the Niue YC had 256 vessels with 688 crew aboard visit them. Knot sure how long their season is but suspect it's 6 months at best. Yup and less will show up when the cost of insurance goes up A huge number don't have insurance now. And I'd suggest a lot of insurance costs are due to racers rather than cruisers. Just look at Multis, one and one only large racer goes tits up so everyone suffers greatly. Knot sure if Insurance is really a good argument. But why knot chuck it in with all the other only semi-relevant stuff. Yes Rocket I know you aren't the only one mentioning insurance, just you're quote was closest. Link to post Share on other sites
darkside 61 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Why would an easterly cause a problem on the CC? Isn't that a broad reach? What's wrong with Whangerei and Whangaruru? Most cruisers could find their way in either in a gale Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 pwederell displaying your intellect again - onya - added heaps - hows your blue water CV looking? Jumped up little prick. Tongue in cheek just doesn't work for you does it? FWIW, I am not defending the decision they made as I would have made an entirely different one based on MY EXPERIENCE AND SKILLS. But you and your fellow gang member come across as totally egotistical tosspots with your attitude here. I think you need a lot more sea miles and experience under your belt or a serious dose of hubris before you have the maturity to contribute anything worthwhile here. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 pwederell displaying your intellect again - onya - added heaps - hows your blue water CV looking? Oh my, you want to question Petes Blue water experience??? Wow, you have no clue who you are talking to eh I think I have pretty much worked it all out folks. Although there are two possible scenarios. Rocket and Brucey either can not Comprehend what they read, or can not read very well at all. Because niether of you Fecking well answer any question or comment posed to you fully and correctly. You keep failing to understand, comprehend, bother to read at all, any of the actual information in regards to the actual event and then many of the further comments. And come on Brucey, now you want to lower yourself to name calling?? That is pretty immature isn't it. i did think you might have been above that kind of thing. This thread shure as heck got really busy today, but go back a few pages to my question. The first thing you may note if you read it fully and correctly is that I was trying to be polite. Second point was, i asked specifically about this situation and thus Boat. Not about your experience with some boat 10yrs ago. And Rocket, even you assume. You said you assume or presume the Rudder is such and such. So how can you make the comments you have without the experience of this particular boat design.Have you actually seen the stupid access way they give you to get at the stock on these things???? I don't know anyone that would be able to spend two minutes with their head down that stupid access way while the boat is in 5m seas. And then you make comments about pouring slippery stuff down the bearings. You also never read the info about the situation properly. You both have made accusations and comments about the situation and about Jordan in total and complete ignorance. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I don't know anyone that would be able to spend two minutes with their head down that stupid access way while the boat is in 5m seas. Esp in a rolly Bene with the short keel which I'm picking it had. We weren't there...... and if I had worked out more at school I could probably have been a better rugby player than Jonah Lomu. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Why would an easterly cause a problem on the CC? Isn't that a broad reach?What's wrong with Whangerei and Whangaruru? Most cruisers could find their way in either in a gale along with hong kong the bay of islnds i believe were kept and noted by the royal navy as hurricane refuges, that is to say without undue stress you were in calm water when entering (naturally windsheer was another prob) Link to post Share on other sites
cam 0 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 pwederell displaying your intellect again - onya - added heaps - hows your blue water CV looking? Jumped up little prick. Tongue in cheek just doesn't work for you does it? FWIW, I am not defending the decision they made as I would have made an entirely different one based on MY EXPERIENCE AND SKILLS. But you and your fellow gang member come across as totally egotistical tosspots with your attitude here. I think you need a lot more sea miles and experience under your belt or a serious dose of hubris before you have the maturity to contribute anything worthwhile here. If you are considering contributing to this (or any other issue) don't let these loud-mouth meatheads put you off. There always seem to be some of these types not too far away on these forums on most websites unfortunately. I hope these goons don't stop people contributing as there is some good stuff here. A right vs wrong mentality is infantile in any complex situation like these. The various elements involved and the relative probability/impact of each risk considered, are non-trivial and usually only visible to the decision makers. Their self appointed role to sit in judgement and award pass/fail marks to the actions of others in this situation is adolescent and offensive. At the same time complaining their many brilliant questions have not been answered so they are unable to assess the situation completely. Most sailors have a far more balanced and mature approach to understanding and analysing the issues/risks/decisions for those involved. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I have said before I reckon the CC is a disaster waiting to happen 100% agree. It's only a matter of when knot if. The parallels with the S2H cock-up are all there. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Go away for a few hours only to come back and trip over a HUGE pile of toys beside the cot. 10 penalty points awarded to Pete for the use of 'hubris' late on a Friday arvo. That is a morning word so it gives us dumbarses longer to look up what it means 10 Opps points for Rocket's spectacular picking of the wrong person to ask Quals of. But as they say sh*t happens. 10 Ya dreaming points for EE. Jonah, yeah right 10 Sticking to your Guns points for Rocket. Held up damn well against a growing avalanche of back lash. 10 Didn't you push a few button points to Brucey. Knot a bad effort really. 100 Bugger off points to any and all who suggested one or more can't or shouldn't contribute. 10 Cold beers for KM for spending 2 hours on the bobbly cat and knot killing one Guinea Pig, child, house part or himself I think I win Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Rocket has been consistent. Top effort in the face of adversity. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 We already know the boat was able to be steered - "4- chain off the starboard quarter (boat was pulling to port) = straight line away from new zealand and 1.5kts or remotely towards new zealand at .5kts 1 -. Was Fiji a discussed destination untill the No Insurance issue became apparent ?? 2 - . Did these fine yachtsman decided to risk life and limb by hitting the raft rather than wait on a totally water tight yacht for the weather conditions to change,??? - All because they couldnt make headway toward there home port ???? 3 - Who was on watch and on deck at the time - Was there anyone on the helm?? 4 - . Was the auto pilot doing all the steering and let go when the bigger wave came thru, causing the rudder to swing wildly and eventually hit the hull breaking the tangs - If you "They Did The Right Thing Yes Men" were half way to Tahiti in the same situation Im sure you would have starved to death waiting for rescue - natural selection survival of the fitest comes to mind tia for answers to the above L.D. PS Looking forward to the skippers interview being posted - Tell me if Iam wrong saying this was delayed re Insurance claim ??? Why ?? Did the skipper give a different story to the insurance Co. ?? Remember they are only Questions Link to post Share on other sites
cam 0 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Remember they are only Questions They are not really though are they? mostly a judgemental opinionated commentary masquerading as questions. Why do you think anyone would answer this sarcastic commentary with serious answers? If you "They Did The Right Thing Yes Men" were half way to Tahiti in the same situation Im sure you would have starved to death waiting for rescue - I really think this kind of simplistic, right or wrong thinking is unhelpful. They made the decision they did based on analysing all the information/risk assesment/experience they had in the situation they were in. They obviously thought it was the right decision at the time for them. We don't know all the criteria and dont know what weight was placed on which of the various elements that added up to the decision being the right one for them. It would take more than a few lines in a forum to do it justice. Different people will often place different weight on the same things for lots of reasons. There are alot of subjective assessments involved. Not having the decision makers version of events, it is not possible to even know the full story yet. natural selection survival of the fitest comes to mind They survived so not sure what point you are making here.... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 5 - Did Dr Smith really kill the Robot or is Will Robinson really a closet psycho with a big set of ring spanners? Link to post Share on other sites
smithy09 50 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 How very erudite of you Smithy, an IQ related offering I am sure. Again Brucey, why would you say such a thing. What is to be gained by insulting me? Point scoring? An own goal there I would say. Strange man. BTW I would love to know who you and Rocket are. Are you happy to "Out" yourselves?? NZ is a small place and I'm sure I would either know you or run into you at some stage. It would be certainly interesting to know the real person behind the harsh opinions. Ages too..... KM. Regarding your last couple of posts: Leave the LSD alone! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I'm not that little.Got ya going though - good to see a bit of discussion after a slow Xmas... Smithy09 I have "outed" myself often - do a search Oh and according to KM I am on zero so I shall have to try harder... (fair call!) Link to post Share on other sites
cam 0 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Again Brucey, why would you say such a thing. What is to be gained by insulting me? Point scoring? An own goal there I would say.... I reckon some people amuse themselves by being inflammatory, when they are in the mood, they really get their jollies out of it, it is kind of a hobby for them. Some petty adolescent urge to scoff at people, and hopefully get a chance to parade their own infinite wit/experience/wisdom. Just like it pays to remember when driving that 1% of the population are psychopaths, it pays to remember a certain percentage of forum users have the mentality of these goons. Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini Babe 0 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 There seems to be an inference here that we all, as yachties, have a responsibility to not require rescuing so that we keep insurance premiums down for everyone else, and anyone who suffers a loss (in insurance terms) is blasted for doing so - because they will inevitably make insurance premiums go up for the rest of us. I haven't seen much negative commentary aimed at the insurance companies though! Isn't that what they're insuring us for? Loss??! Why have a go at the guy who elected to get his crew safely off the boat, and make the very difficult decision to abandon his vessel, as being 'responsible' for us being more out of pocket? Have a go at the bloody insurance companies who have us all over a barrel. They make money if we don't claim. And they make money if we do. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brucey Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 One way (without going over the side) would be to run a line from forward - say chainplates (on the side it was turning towards) around rudder then up to a snap block on the opposite transom or slightly further forward (in line with rudder stock) and then to a primary and wind like f*ck. Agree with the effort to free the rudder but this approach I reckon risks jaming it more, as the force is likely to be forward. Also if the top of the rudder was jambed against the hull, or against a hull fitting, this might also risk fracturing the hull. Keeping the aft line, well aft of the rudder stock reduces this risk a bit, but a big stopper knot (or threaded blocks) on the line, located to get a grip on the trailing edge, is more likely to provide the force on the line in the direction required. Sorry Cam not my words, at least bag me for what I have said. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brucey Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 rigger, it didnt jam because of the bearings, the top 400 ish mm that was left on the stock was spinning round freely and jamming against the hull (courtesy of broken tangs). so one minute it would be locked hard to port then it would get knocked by a wave and jam to starboard and so on... So all you had to do was get a rope around it and tie the fucker. I rest my case Your Honour, guilty as charged and doesnt know when to STFU. JH, go to Wikapedia, look up the 5th Amendment, and get Dad to explain what it means, as I advised a couple of days ago when I said dont answer plead the Fifth! Yip here is the nub. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brucey Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 How very erudite of you Smithy, an IQ related offering I am sure. Again Brucey, why would you say such a thing. What is to be gained by insulting me? Point scoring? An own goal there I would say. Strange man. BTW I would love to know who you and Rocket are. Are you happy to "Out" yourselves?? NZ is a small place and I'm sure I would either know you or run into you at some stage. It would be certainly interesting to know the real person behind the harsh opinions. Ages too..... You said "Yup. What Grinna said. " and I just tried to suggest that you may wish to put a little more thought into your next contribution. Appologies if the reference was too oblique. I dont really think you are dumb. Link to post Share on other sites
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