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Jordan Rescued


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There seems to be an inference here that we all, as yachties, have a responsibility to not require rescuing so that we keep insurance premiums down for everyone else, and anyone who suffers a loss (in insurance terms) is blasted for doing so - because they will inevitably make insurance premiums go up for the rest of us.

 

I haven't seen much negative commentary aimed at the insurance companies though! Isn't that what they're insuring us for? Loss??! Why have a go at the guy who elected to get his crew safely off the boat, and make the very difficult decision to abandon his vessel, as being 'responsible' for us being more out of pocket? Have a go at the bloody insurance companies who have us all over a barrel. They make money if we don't claim. And they make money if we do.

 

And while I'm making friends, BB it may come as a suprise but Insurance Companies are not Santa, they are a bussiness and they need to make money to survive, so, when someone makes a claim the companies get that money from the premium pool.

 

When, maybe due to to many claims, the pool is less than the pay out, they put up the premiums so that next year the pool is sufficient, plus of course their profit margin, oh yea and what they lost last year.

So when there is a claim, the greater pool always pay, and even if the one who claimed, no longer has a boat, the rest of the pool still pay.

 

 

Good business if you can get it I guess.

 

 

Re the guys who got off, I havent seen any negitive comentary regards the decision they made in the circumstance, just questions regards the prepairdness .

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How very erudite of you Smithy, an IQ related offering I am sure.

 

Again Brucey, why would you say such a thing. What is to be gained by insulting me? Point scoring? An own goal there I would say. Strange man. BTW I would love to know who you and Rocket are. Are you happy to "Out" yourselves?? NZ is a small place and I'm sure I would either know you or run into you at some stage. It would be certainly interesting to know the real person behind the harsh opinions. Ages too.....

 

 

You said "Yup. What Grinna said. :thumbup: :thumbup: "

 

and I just tried to suggest that you may wish to put a little more thought into your next contribution. Appologies if the reference was too oblique. I dont really think you are dumb.

Grinna put it very well. No point in repeating. If you don't think I am dumb why resort to insults that imply I am? Wierd. Enough said from me. Like Rocket said, livened up the Forum after a quiet period. Always good sport!!

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KM. Regarding your last couple of posts: Leave the LSD alone!
Those days are pretty much over. Galliano shots this time :thumbup:

Rather effective and sneaky little buggers they were too :?

 

Like Rocket said, livened up the Forum after a quiet period. Always good sport!!
Good sport indeed, as long as everyone remembers it is just sport and a discussion, all beit it very lively at times, rather than a rage feast to be taken personally.

 

Just like it pays to remember when driving that 1% of the population are psychopaths, it pays to remember a certain percentage of forum users have the mentality of these goons.
So that would then suggest there are 35.8 psychopaths signed up Crew.Org members. Seems a bit lite that number doesn't it? :twisted: :lol: :lol:
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KM,

 

Yes just a bit of sport, and nothing personal.

 

Although a v important discussion and I try to play the ball not the man, with just a slight swelling in the cheek on occasion.

 

Sadly some seem to take it to heart when they are challenged or corrected. I really think they are looking at it completely the wrong way around.

 

They should take it as a complement and positive indication of the level of knowledge and intelligence that it had been assumed they possess, and not fixate on the stupidity they may have just been shown to display.

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One way (without going over the side) would be to run a line from forward - say chainplates (on the side it was turning towards) around rudder then up to a snap block on the opposite transom or slightly further forward (in line with rudder stock) and then to a primary and wind like f*ck.

Agree with the effort to free the rudder but this approach I reckon risks jaming it more, as the force is likely to be forward. Also if the top of the rudder was jambed against the hull, or against a hull fitting, this might also risk fracturing the hull. Keeping the aft line, well aft of the rudder stock reduces this risk a bit, but a big stopper knot (or threaded blocks) on the line, located to get a grip on the trailing edge, is more likely to provide the force on the line in the direction required.

 

 

Sorry Cam not my words, at least bag me for what I have said.

 

Sorry about the incorrect attribution Brucey, my mistake, now corrected. hardly a bagging tho, just got my bozo's mixed up.

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Just like it pays to remember when driving that 1% of the population are psychopaths, it pays to remember a certain percentage of forum users have the mentality of these goons.
So that would then suggest there are 35.8 psychopaths signed up Crew.Org members. Seems a bit lite that number doesn't it? :twisted: :lol: :lol:

 

:)

agreed.. crew.org seems some kind of a psychopath generator actually. I used to be a fairly well adjusted simple sociopath I thought, but the darkness is rapidly approaching...

 

Although that would be a good topic, "Psychopaths I have sailed with" or perhaps "Sociopaths & schizophrenics I have sailed with" so we can all take part (like the neurotic disturbed crew on my laser last season, responsible for all the dodgy crew work at the start, blames me, then buggers off till the first gybe mark :) ).

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Sadly some seem to take it to heart when they are challenged or corrected. I really think they are looking at it completely the wrong way around.

I'd suggest that your questions are highly valid and it's more the tone in which you phrased them that caused some angst. It's the interweb and many find it hard to convey their views just right but equally many also find it hard to read them right also. Agree many seem to take things more personal than they really should.

 

:)

agreed.. crew.org seems some kind of a psychopath generator actually. I used to be a fairly well adjusted simple sociopath I thought, but the darkness is rapidly approaching...

 

3am mid winter, 30kts hard on the honker, the rail is digging into your legs which are starting to go numb from lose of blood flow and/or the cold, your wetgear has given up so you have a bad case of soggy yachty botty, the last wave dumped on your head breached the protective neck layer and is now slowly running down your spine, the Big Mac you have left for breakfast is now 24 hours old and lying in the leeward bilge, your rum has a distinct taste of Hauraki Gulf...... and it's just started to piss down with rain. And there's only 30 miles left until the finish.

 

Get home and you're asked 'How was it?' and you answer 'All good, looking forward to next year'.

 

Tell me there isn't some psycho already inside anyone who does that for fun. You're probably a lot closer to the darkside then you realise or want to admit :lol: :lol:

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Hey, being a little insane can have major benifits.

 

Schizophrenics are never alone. They always have someone to talk too.

Psychopaths command respect and tend to get it.

Alzheimers patients get to meet new poeople each day.

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3am mid winter, 30kts hard on the honker, the rail is digging into your legs which are starting to go numb from lose of blood flow and/or the cold, your wetgear has given up so you have a bad case of soggy yachty botty, the last wave dumped on your head breached the protective neck layer and is now slowly running down your spine, the Big Mac you have left for breakfast is now 24 hours old and lying in the leeward bilge, your rum has a distinct taste of Hauraki Gulf...... and it's just started to piss down with rain. And there's only 30 miles left until the finish.

 

Get home and you're asked 'How was it?' and you answer 'All good, looking forward to next year'.

 

Tell me there isn't some psycho already inside anyone who does that for fun. You're probably a lot closer to the darkside then you realise or want to admit :lol: :lol:

:)

yes you do have to wonder about the sheer inconvenience, cost, effort, discomfort, sickness, pain and threat to life we happily think little of as just part of the sport.

 

Being a bit deranged must definitely help if not an actual pre-requisite.

Maybe we should give out sanity tests to new sailors. explaining, "It's probably not for everyone, for instance it is probably not for SANE people" let's save us all some time....

 

Trying to introduce people to sailing in smelly welly can be a bit challenging from that poiint of view, often they just leave the boat sunburnt, tired, scared, sick, thinking "WHY???" Then you take someone else out on a crap(ish) but ok sort of day and they absolutlely love it, and you think freakin excellent, then I tend to think "you poor disturbed bastard" if they enjoyed that particular day which I struggled to enjoy.

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When we first arrived in Havelock and were living aboard at the time, we made wonderful friends with an elderly couple in the Marina that had years of experience. Were were all having a cuppa together one evening and at that time, I was still cautious on just what I would tell others about my health. I had told them that I had a bit of a problem with stress and she just started laughing and then said, well you picked the wrong recreation then didn't you.

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squidlys article-

Regulars on the forums will be aware that two of our crew ogres (Jordan Harkin and James Brett) were recently rescued mid-Pacific from a boat that had shed its rudder.

Whenever this happens questions are always asked, hopefully so that we can all learn from the experience. Unfortunately, on occasions, these are difficult questions to ask, so I was pleased and grateful to be able to sit down with Jordan and his dad (who was also on the boat) to discuss what happened and why.

As an aside before I begin, John Harkin is a boatbuilder, a mechanic, and fireman. He is competent and skilled at solving problems. He has built and owned several keel boats. This was his seventh long off-shore passage. He also told me the owner, who was aboard, had many ocean miles of experience.

Before I could get the first question out, he interrupted and said “You are going to ask me why we abandoned a perfectly good boat”.

“Well, yes”.

“It wasn’t a perfectly good boat, we couldn’t steer it”.

The story went like this: they were three days south of Fiji, in winds into the low thirties, and four to six metre waves, when one bigger than the rest slapped them sideways. There was a reasonable amount of carnage on the deck, which took some time to tidy up. It wasn’t until they tried to get underway again did they realize they had a steering problem.

At this point John was adamant that the owner had done everything one could reasonably expect to prepare the boat. The Cat one inspection was done by Kevin Lidgard, and all his recommendations were adhered to.

They worked on trying to steer the boat for 32 hours. They tried various sail combinations, and they built a jury rudder (I saw the photo; it looked very well done). When they tried the jury rudder, with three people swinging on the spinnaker pole until it almost broke, they still couldn’t steer the boat. John did comment that he believed losing the mast would have been much easier than losing the steering.

At the time the decision was taken to abandon, they were sitting to a sea anchor, comfortable, dry, warm, fed and well watered. They had supplies to remain as they were for probably some weeks. However, they could not see any way to improve their situation or steer the boat and remaining there would have been to no advantage.

The abandonment was a very low-key affair, all communications via satellite phone. The owner/skipper needing to be convinced to use the word ‘mayday’ (possibly for legal/insurance reasons –ed).

When the Pacific Independence arrived on the scene they had prepared a long hawser supported by 44 gallon drums and they passed by making a sharp turn astern of the boat and floated it to the men onboard.

The ship’s captain had suggested they use the life raft for the transfer. Unfortunately, at some point, they managed to get the life raft on the opposite side of the boat to the ship with the precious lifeline between the boat’s keel and the remnants of its rudder. John was forced to strip off his life vest and dive to free it. To avoid a repeat, they loaded all the excess line in the raft (this was a 62mm piece of string). There was enough to nearly fill the raft and by John’s estimate, it could have weighed up to a tonne.

This is what caused the floor of the life raft to fail, but it was a choice between that and losing their one tenuous link with the ship. Thus, what had been an orderly withdrawal became a dangerous survival situation.

After the raft fell apart they drifted rapidly away from the ship, resulting in a 400 metre swim. At the ship’s side they had to climb bamboo ladders to get aboard.

John was full of praise for the captain and crew of the Pacific Independence and their hospitality.

 

So what can we deduce?

1. Jordan got a glimpse of the damaged rudder from the raft. The bottom two thirds was missing, and the portion that remained was spinning freely and jamming against the hull. Meanwhile, the wheel was lashed. They assume that as well as losing the bottom of the rudder, the welds holding the tangs to the shaft failed (the inside of the rudder is always going to be wet)

2. The jammed portion of the rudder was big enough to overwhelm all their attempts to steer the boat otherwise. Whatever they did, the boat always turned to port.

3. John was not critical of the raft, and felt they had over-stressed it way beyond its design specifications.

4. The sea anchor did the job it was intended to do, but the full crew saw it as a one-off use, and it was cut loose in order to allow the boat to drift down onto the rescue line.

I asked John whether, using 20/20 hindsight there was anything he thought they could have done differently. He thought for a long while and said no. the only piece of equipment he did criticize was the inflatable life jacket, saying when they were inflated they were uncomfortable and restricted movement severely, to the extent that if you inflate one, realistically all you can expect to do is lie on your back and await rescue ( they had models both with and without crotch straps and noticed little difference).

His final comment to me was that he vividly recalls holding a line from the ship in one hand while his foot was hooked through a strap on his 16 year-old son’s life jacket, a situation nobody ever wants to encounter.

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Well JH you sure are a TFP.

 

A clear concise report, but nothing new here. I agree that there are things to learn here and points to note for the future.

 

The sea anchor worked well, emergency steering was bloody difficult, and most importantly this was a graphic demonstration of the dangers of getting off a boat, which could have ended in tragedy, but thankfully didn’t.

 

As has been well documented with the many accounts of thousands of sea miles under similar “trades” conditions, I believe that a boat can be emergency steered, but it is difficult. Many successful instances of utilising weather vein steering, some with spinnaker pole/oar type steering and most using various forms of drag devices. All systems require a lot of attention to balancing the boat so that a course is held.

 

Despite it being offered and accepted for most Cat3’s a floorboard on the pole is no doubt going to require a fair amount of active crew input, a drogue or other drag device would seem the most reliable and easy form of emergency steering particularly in a seaway. I believe any boat going offshore should have a sea anchor to ride out extreme weather or to stop to repair damage, and a drogue as emergency steering and to trail to stop pitch poling in extreme running conditions if outruning weather.

 

In this case whether the rudder was spinning free or jamming clearly the rudder needed to be controlled before the job of steering the boat could be focused on. There is no account given of any attention to this. If the remains of the rudder couldn’t be controlled by dropping ropes systems, slipknots and blocks etc without going into the water, then it would require the patience to wait at anchor until this could be done safely in the water. This needed to be controlled!

 

Once a crew has exhausted their abilities and or ideas certainly there is a need to seek outside assistance. I was surprised that Insurance and Salvage experts weren’t involved in a salvage attempt, for 30-50K a boat surely could have been hired out of Tonga or Fiji to tow the stricken vessel to safety.

 

 

So the lessons to my mind,

 

Getting a boat to steer is going to be a bloody difficult, but it is possible

Don’t get off the boat

Carry a sea anchor and drogue

Use outside assistance if needed

Don’t get off the boat or you could die

 

 

Questions, was there a rudder problem detected in an earlier survey of the boat? What remedial work was undertaken by whom?

 

Was the Insurance Company consulted prior to abandonment?

 

A tough place to find oneself and one we all hope doesnt happen to us.

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just heard about this, the yacht we were partnered up with in fiji left a day after us and got the sh*t kicked out of them so much the ended up turning round and going to vanuatu. might i ad that this was a well proven 60ft ketch that the owner has sailed multiple times to the pac. islands, alaska, america etc

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Thanks for this update JH. Encouraging to hear the details about the raft floor failure being related to overloading. Sure this will make many relax a little, altho perhaps now will make chubbier crew members crawl in rather than jump in. Not that I'm parnoid (much).

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