Guest Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Here's the cheapest I could find after 30 mins on google http://www.seahawkfiji.com/ let's say $200 per day, vs $35. Most had a max of 3 days. Definitely targetting tourists rather than travellers. Still not convinced. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Regardless of what their website says, Seahawk actually operates ex NZ and is a missionary boat http://www.dayspring.org.nz/ (disclaimer, owners/directors are personal friends of mine but I'm no missionary). As such she is used as a tax dodge fund raising platform targeting high end god botherers who will pay a premium to give bibles to black skinned fellas. I will try to get firmer figures if my internet actually starts working reasonably well, but rest assured, my figures come from real world experience when I was doing this as an agency employee. Link to post Share on other sites
liveaboard 0 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 I have been monitoring the dialogue between you all and find it interesting My boat is in Fiji at the moment and the first thing I did when I got here was to go to the relevant authorities and inquire about running a charter business after next cyclone season. I have no intention of breaking the law anywhere and as I have said before only 'Charter' between countries. If you would like to dig into a spurious sailing business try the route from Panama to Colombia via the San Blas islands; there the day rate is 90 dollars us a day for 5 days. Get hold of a few captains names and tear them apart I am sure you will get a big thrill. Please refrain from tarring me with a brush which is not appropriate and calling me 'this guy' and other offensive names, thankyou. P.S. For those defending my right to offer time on my boat I thank you, it saves me trying to justify my activities Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 You have still not answered the question of whether or not you use your charges within island groups you visit (on this or Cruisersforum) Going by your website you do. As for the San Blas Islands??? No defence, if they are breaking the law it does not entitle you to do the same. I will do what I can to protect the locals where I am living, let others worry about protecting their own economy. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Chasing away genuine cruisers who happen to have contributing crew won't help the locals. I don't disagree with you that pirate charterers should be stopped, I just don't see it in this instance, and being over zealous in hunting them down can do more harm than good. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Chasing away genuine cruisers who happen to have contributing crew won't help the locals. I totally accept that and agree, and believe that genuine cruising sailors contribute a lot to local economies but ("Please refrain from tarring me with a brush which is not appropriate and calling me 'this guy' and other offensive names, thankyou.") Julian has already admitted on another forum and on his own website that he is not a genuine cruiser, he is operating a passenger service. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Chasing away genuine cruisers who happen to have contributing crew won't help the locals. I don't disagree with you that pirate charterers should be stopped, I just don't see it in this instance, and being over zealous in hunting them down can do more harm than good. How is it that the rest of us plebs have it shown that we have edited our posts but the scabby old website owner gets away with changing his post without a "last edited" thingy? As to your last (added) sentence, we obviously have different agendas. Whilst encouraging and protecting the cruising lifestyle is a big thing with me, encouraging and protecting the locals and their economy has overridden that sentiment for me. Link to post Share on other sites
liveaboard 0 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 I am a genuine cruiser Not a passenger service, although that may be the commentators interpretation I agree that protection must be given to local fee paying charter companies and therefore I don't offer charter within a countries island group or coastline, I do however meet with backpackers travelers and fellow sailors and offer them time on my boat in the direction I want to go, @ 35 dollars a day. call that what you want. I say that it is contribution as described and within the range of many crew finding sites. many charter companies do not do one way trips and nor do ferries run in line with my route so again I am not taking from them. if you want to really stand on a soap box and preach that the 35 dollars could be spent inside the tax framework of a country i think this is going too far. By the way I know of many captains who charge much more than I do, and any revenue i get from contribution falls short of my running and maintenance costs. Please refrain from identifying me as being such a bad guy. if you read the testimonials on my site which are hand written by fully satisfied travelers you will understand what I have on offer and what they appreciate takes place. They get a unique experience and most thank me for offering it and facilitating a dream wish of theirs. many join me to get a taste of cruising and I know of at least one couple who went on to buy their own boat. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I am a genuine cruiserNot a passenger service, although that may be the commentators interpretation Not according to previous links to your own website where you mentioned looking for more passengers. Not much for misinterpretation there. I agree that protection must be given to local fee paying charter companies and therefore I don't offer charter within a countries island group or coastline,Not according to links on your website I do however meet with backpackers travelers and fellow sailors and offer them time on my boat in the direction I want to go, @ 35 dollars a day. call that what you want. I say that it is contribution as described and within the range of many crew finding sites. many charter companies do not do one way trips and nor do ferries run in line with my route so again I am not taking from them. if you want to really stand on a soap box and preach that the 35 dollars could be spent inside the tax framework of a country i think this is going too far.So now you say you do offer charters within island groups and deny local operators the chance to compete on potential routes by undercutting them to hell and still don't want to contribute a bit of tax to the country By the way I know of many captains who charge much more than I do, and any revenue i get from contribution falls short of my running and maintenance costs.Criminal by degrees is still criminal and you want your "guests" to pay fixed operating and maintenance costs?? About what most legitimate charter operators are hoping to achieve because of their high compliance costs and piratical nature of illegal operators stealing their business Please refrain from identifying me as being such a bad guyConvince me you aren't, you haven't yet and you continue to dodge questions which is generally a sign of dodginess. if you read the testimonials on my site which are hand written by fully satisfied travelers you will understand what I have on offer and what they appreciate takes place. They get a unique experience and most thank me for offering it and facilitating a dream wish of theirs. many join me to get a taste of cruising and I know of at least one couple who went on to buy their own boat.Of course you have testimonies from happy clients on your website. You are operating as a commercial business and need to advertise. These experiences can also be provided by legitimaste operators Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I have done a costing, and checked with Himself. Even including the horrendous cost of him traveling an hour each way to work every day, our cost of living (including boat maintenance for the superyacht and two sailing dinghies), is less than NZ$35 per person, per day, living here in our palace at the beach. So, I fail to understand how living a cruising lifestyle, with very little overheads (no power costs etc) could cost US$35 a day? Ogre - how did you come up with that figure when you costed it? I am interested to know where the costs are. Respectfully M Link to post Share on other sites
liveaboard 0 Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 I have no more ammunition to offer you all for your petty digs, I am sailing to another country with a crew who are willingly contributing 35 dollars to accompany me. Goodbye. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Since the headline says you are headed to NZ you will be pleased to know that what you are doing is not illegal here. (I checked). Link to post Share on other sites
1paulg 17 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Personally ..I dont find the $35/day excessive..he didnt say how many were going to be onboard and if only 3 seems ok to me.....not saying I would charge this as would need to do costings more carefully...but as a punter for a one off dont think it is unreasonable depending on the how much one wanted to do a trip like this... Link to post Share on other sites
liveaboard 0 Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 I didn't really want to spend more time at this however to put things into perspective My engine consumes the equivalent of 5 dollars us an hour so that gets expensive but is included in my fee. Take a look also at some of the crew seeking websites atleast one of them recommend no more than 35 as a contribution. (I charge no more than that, no extras) I am a 'cruiser' and about to go cruising which is what it's all about Link to post Share on other sites
southernman 73 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Come on $ 25 to $ 35 a day is the going rate out there for crewing expenses. It greatly depends on the type of yacht but it's a fair price and what I charged the guys who crewed for our delivery from Sydney back to Lyttleton. That covered good food, fuel to turn the engines on when we ran out of wind, safety, sat phone etc etc. Pete, many many people and yachts run this arrangement. For instance taking a couple of surfers you meet in the pub for a couple of days surfing - does this equate to a charter or simply taking advantage of a mutual interest and sharing of resources? By the way our last cruise to Fiji and Tonga cost us NZD $ 35.41 per day in the islands. This did not include the capital cost of the yacht nor costs to get the yacht ready to go up there and the cost of repairs / upgrades when we got back. If you include this then I'd suggest the charge out @ $ 35 a day to recoup costs for a very unique experience is a fair price. All I'd say is that if you are going to throw stones at people about chartering I just hope those who are throwing stones are declaring income and paying full tax rates and doing no under the table work up in the Islands. For instance sail repairs, engine repairs sewing etc done by all the cruiser communities up there. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 It's all about the difference between what he is saying here and what his website claims (as I have linked to but people seem to busy to actually read, unless he has changed the wording) He talks about chartering within island groups, sourcing passengers and all the extras above the $35/day for such things as CRUISING PERMIT, DINGHY DOCK etc. Don't get blinded by the whole lifestyle thing, look more closely at what is actually going on and how it affects "paradise". This guy has not answered any of the pointed questions I asked but has simply pulled the "poor innocent me" routine. If nothing else, the whole "crew contribution" thing is a can of worms and people need to be very careful to stay inside the law as it is something that is widely open to interpretation. Tim, the other stuff you raise re sewing etc. is also being seriously policed where and when they have the resources. Trust me, living in Vuda for a while was a real education and in the time I was in Fiji a few cruisers got busted, which sucks for all the honest ones as we're all tarred with the same brush. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I think you have mis read his website Pete, those costs are included in the $35/day. But it seems this all lies in your definition of chartering. We all agree no cruiser should run an illegal charter. But how do you differentiate between a charter and a genuine cruiser looking to offset costs ( a long running practice that should offend no one)? By the NZ definition , which says something like"operating for profit" he has no problem coz $35/day ain't even close to making a profit. What definition are you using? And if every country has a different definition life gets a bit difficult. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I don't think I have misinterpreted his site. He makes (unless he has changed wording) open reference to sourcing passengers, cruising with said passengers within island groups, lists the extras over $35/day which include cruising permit, dinghy dock etc. I also suspect the definition of charter is for hire or reward, not profit, otherwise every yacht in Weasthaven could be paying for haulout and paint by doing what SailNZ does. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I went into it in some depth with MNZ - no problem with crew contributing $35/day. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 From the relevant act: reward,— ( in the definition of the term pleasure craft,— (i) includes the payment (whether of money or money’s worth and whether directly or indirectly), to or for the benefit of the owner or master of a ship, of a contribution towards the expenses of a voyage by or on behalf of persons, or the owners of cargo, carried on board the ship during the voyage; but (ii) does not include the payment of any such contributions exclusively by part owners of the ship or by persons engaged as bona fide crew members Link to post Share on other sites
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