cj! 19 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 If you had a blank slate what electronics would you install today? Think suitable for single and short handed sailing including offshore and keeping it budget friendly. Would you have a PC with OpenCPN and build a system or buy a brand based system with an MFD? All individual components or some that do a combo like a VHF with AIS and GPS? What would you have for redundancy/backups? Wifi or wired wind sensor? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,286 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Ok, Broad Question. It depends on the person, and the application (local,coastal, offshore). If they are technophobes, then the dedicated MFD solution for sure. If PC literate, then the PC solution wins. You asked for what would we have, so here goes for me in a fully capable yacht; PC core system, opencpn latest edition. Duplicated waterproof touchscreen monitors, at least one below deck at the chart table, and one in the cockpit. Industrial trackball by cockpit monitor. NMEA 2000 Bus, Including all the transducers (Masthead, depth, speed, temp etc). Solid state compass, with pitch roll and yaw. High end autopilot specifically for sailboat. Vesper Marine AIS XB8000 with N2K, Wifi, NMEA0183 and USB for the PC connections. Broadband radar, 3G or 4G. I still prefer an SSB and Pactor 4 for comms and Mail, incl weather. Fwd scan sonar if going to the Islands, or anywhere with poor charts and or Coral. Good VHF with remote for cockpit. Plus a good quality battery computer, properly set up, specifically for the batteries you have got. As much solar as I can fit on. Wind gen if making serious long passages where there is wind. Funnily enough, this is pretty much what I have on IT. Plus a MFD so I can demo the differences to people who are interested. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cj! 19 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 Thanks IT, I've been seeing a lot of positive comments for Vesper AIS. I'm not an expert with tech but I'm reasonably comfortable with learning what I need to. I like the idea of a PC having decent sized touch screens and using OpenCPN with SAS.Pilot and Google Earth to overlay satellite images. Pros and cons of 3G v 4G radar? I must admit I find the idea of having forward scan sonar quite attractive for areas that aren't charted that well. Can the Silentwind blades to fitted to other wind generators? I just came across the Pelagic autopilot, any knowledge of it? https://pelagicautopilot.com/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,286 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 3g is single range, 4G is dual (can have 2 radar pics simultaneously on different ranges - like 2 radars). 4G is good for fast boats needing both close in and longer range at the same time. I use a 3G personally. Autopilots, IMO should be fully integrated. Ideally is have the H5000 series B&G unit, even the base model. Designed for a yacht, as used by most of the last vendee globe boats. You can have gybe prevention, steering by compass with roll, pitch and yaw, accurate instruments that even compensate for mast movements etc. Steer to compass, wind, Navigation, Wind NAV etc These units are MILES above a basic ap. If you can't afford that, then the Triton pilot is also good, but not so fancy. Yes, silent wind blades also fit Airx or Air Breeze units. A fwd scan requires an MFD... Happy to show you all this on IT sometime is your keen. Cheers Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,723 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Boyo oboy oboy. I dont know what most of those things are. Other end of the scale. Wind vane if possible otherwise hugely overspecced underdeck auto pilot. Gps ( get few they are cheap). Last trip i did alnost exclusively on my phone for nav. Comms i want to try one of the new magic boxes that lets you send text messages from your phone via satellite. Rhey also receive weather forecasts. Done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,286 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Sure BP, you can do it like that. You could still drive a model T as well. If you have not used this type of gear you don't know what your missing! Each to there own of course... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,723 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I have and i do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geoff-halo 21 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Ok, Broad Question. It depends on the person, and the application (local,coastal, offshore). If they are technophobes, then the dedicated MFD solution for sure. If PC literate, then the PC solution wins. You asked for what would we have, so here goes for me in a fully capable yacht; PC core system, opencpn latest edition. Duplicated waterproof touchscreen monitors, at least one below deck at the chart table, and one in the cockpit. Industrial trackball by cockpit monitor. NMEA 2000 Bus, Including all the transducers (Masthead, depth, speed, temp etc). Solid state compass, with pitch roll and yaw. High end autopilot specifically for sailboat. Vesper Marine AIS XB8000 with N2K, Wifi, NMEA0183 and USB for the PC connections. Broadband radar, 3G or 4G. I still prefer an SSB and Pactor 4 for comms and Mail, incl weather. Fwd scan sonar if going to the Islands, or anywhere with poor charts and or Coral. Good VHF with remote for cockpit. Plus a good quality battery computer, properly set up, specifically for the batteries you have got. As much solar as I can fit on. Wind gen if making serious long passages where there is wind. Funnily enough, this is pretty much what I have on IT. Plus a MFD so I can demo the differences to people who are interested. Any suggestions on where to buy the "waterproof touchscreen monitors"? Only ones I've found on the net are more expensive than a pc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cj! 19 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 Any suggestions on where to buy the "waterproof touchscreen monitors"? Only ones I've found on the net are more expensive than a pc. http://www.neptunes-gear.com/index.php/pc-based-systems/15-touch-screen-2000-by-navassist.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cj! 19 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 Thanks Matt, love to take you up on the offer to have a look at your setup when I'm back in the country. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southernman 73 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Our Setup on current boat - Hydrovane - used on any passage over 100 miles - Big Autopilot below deck - used when motoring or short passages/harbour sailing - Vesper AIS - awesome kit and now you can use the app on your smart watch awesome and wifi your complete network - we needed this before we updated the chartplotter to get everything wireless - Instruments in cockpit all to NMEA2000 - Chartplotter Raymarine - use mainly when motoring and actually on the helm - use the ipad the rest of the time - Radar new Raymarine Wifi - works really well and only power cable up the mast - Ipad - we use this the most actually - Iridium Go - MacBook with back CMap etc on it My feeling is the less wires the better hence wifi and so far it's worked well. Here is the best bit about this setup - low complexity for a lot of gear. The bit that stuffs up the most is the bloody wind direction on the top of the mast!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,286 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Everyone is different, but im not sure I agree with you SM about the wires. Properly done, wires last a long time - 20 years or more. The masthead units from navico, the 506, has been in production pretty much unchanged for 15 odd years. Mostly in my experience masthead units fail due to bearings or physical damage if properly installed. You can change the bearings for under $20. They get full of salt and sand. Wireless units have exactly the same issues Plus more electronics at the masthead. There is a reason none of the major race boats use wireless units. Wind vane steering is fine and good, it has one advantage over electronic pilots - it doesn't use electricity. It has many disadvantages over a good autopilot. It only steers to wind, not navigation, no set/drift adjustment, poor performance in boats that are fast and have large fast apparent wind angle changes, no crash recovery, no gybe prevention, to name what immediately comes to mind. To my mind, relying on a phone or tablet is a risky business. IMO safe navigation requires 3 independent data sources. Eyes can be one, gps plotter, radar, ais , sounder can all be others.. Everyone's level of acceptable risk is different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,286 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Ha KM, all the current MFDs Are computers. They mostly run Linux, hidden from the users... There is, IMO, a hole in B&Gs line up for a decent drive unit for a smallish tiller steered yacht that crosses oceans. That's KMs issue. However Raymarine simply don't have the same high end pilots like the H5000 series for serious sail boats. B&G were 1st, 2nd, in the last Vended Globe for a reason. I've just been sailing a 60ft boat through the reef systems of Fiji for a couple of months. It has the same H5000 pilot. On a recent 70nm passage, with over 30 way points to thread through the reefs, I did not need to touch the helm once, and we were never more than 300mm from our planned track! It really is a great piece of kit. Oh, crew of 2, so plenty of sail trim and work to do without having to helm. Still, it would be stupid on a small harbour racer. It all depends on the person and what they want their boat to do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southernman 73 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Everyone is different, but i'm not sure I agree with you SM about the wires. Properly done, wires last a long time - 20 years or more. Wireless is the future though. Just look at where the world is going, also less weight aloft etc etc, just saying. A wire fault can't be fixed at sea in most cases if it's in the mast, a wireless puk can be replaced in a matter of minutes. Re windvane, sure you have some points but again simplicity wins, for instance 3 boats I left Tonga with all lost power charging and all ended up hand steering or had autopilot issues, oh and if we loose our rudder we do then have a built in emergency steering ability. Are you suggesting that you pack a complete spare autopilot if it breaks down? If you go with your theory of 3 points of safety for navigation surely the same applies for steering a boat i.e. 2 autopilots and one person to hand steer? The windvane points you raise are very model dependant and not true for all vanes and all boats. Sure if you are driving a Vende boat probably not the right choice. For the majority of cruising boats a windvane is an excellent choice. Could I also suggest that an Ipad in a waterproof case is also a computer and just as secure as some frankenstein pc built from chinese bits? Of course the same rules apply 3 points of reference which is a point but that point remains the same for all equipment and risk assessments. Anyhow the Ipad get's it's GPS signals from the same place a connected PC does and also a chartplotter in most cases, an external GPS antenna. The good thing with the Ipad is that it also has an internal GPS if you buy the correct model. PS new wing mast on cat is fitted with wireless and it's a race boat first and cruiser second. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,286 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Yep, all fair points SM, But I'd have to say that you do have three steering options on most boats. Manual, normal steering, ap or wind vane, plus the emergency steering required for cat 1. No, I don't carry a complete spare AP. I carry a few of the most likely spares - pretty much the same as a wind vane system, no one I've met carries an entire spare, but they often have some parts. WiFi - I'm not against it, I use it on my boat for the ipad etc, just not on primary systems. Finally, and with respect, the boats with autopilot or power systems failure were not properly set up or supplied (with spares/backup systems) to begin with. What works on holidays in the gulf is often inadequate on a long voyage. As a side note, I've had one ap computer failure in over 40,000 NM in my own boat. Everything else I've been able to fix or bypass with systems or gear on board. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,286 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Sorry, yes, shouldn't do numbers from memory. The 608 can be identified by the two silver stripes on its mast.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.