Guest Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Really? Maybe that was while I was "resting" on the couch at the back of the shed? When was this? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I have never seen an olympic event for:fat mans running fat mans swimming fat mans cycling fat mans high jump fat mans diving shall I go on? No, that's enough to show you don't pay much attention. So, athletics has multiple events. Let's take two of them as an initial sample, the 100 metres sprint (for men) and the shot put (for men). Tell me that those two events, both within athletics, are not targetted at two very different body types. Let's take Weightlifting next. And Judo, and Tae Kwon Do... they all have weight divisions. Next let's look at rowing - they have, amongst other such examples, single sculls, and single lightweight sculls. So that's not an exhaustive list, just off the top of my head, but it clearly shows Olympic Sports within which there are either explicit or implicit events designed for different body weights and/or sizes. So why shouldn't yachting acknowledge and have events that are targetted at different body types? Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 512 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Besides, if there were no large men events, who'd screw the shotput women at the afterparty? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Do you think anyone would have a choice if the shotput ladies decided they wanted some action? Bardy- Yeah, that might have been while you were having a close up inspection of the rug at the back of Dave's shed. Then holding down the couch. Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I have never seen an olympic event for:fat mans running fat mans swimming fat mans cycling fat mans high jump fat mans diving shall I go on? No, that's enough to show you don't pay much attention. So, athletics has multiple events. Let's take two of them as an initial sample, the 100 metres sprint (for men) and the shot put (for men). Tell me that those two events, both within athletics, are not targetted at two very different body types. Let's take Weightlifting next. And Judo, and Tae Kwon Do... they all have weight divisions. Next let's look at rowing - they have, amongst other such examples, single sculls, and single lightweight sculls. So that's not an exhaustive list, just off the top of my head, but it clearly shows Olympic Sports within which there are either explicit or implicit events designed for different body weights and/or sizes. So why shouldn't yachting acknowledge and have events that are targetted at different body types? The big difference in Sailing is the Cost and the number of Television viewers. The Cost of the hosting the sailing is higher than any of the sports you listed. The Television Viewers (Revenue raising potential) is lower in sailing than any of the other sports you listed. By all means keep your head buried in the sand (aimed mostly at YNZ) and go for 10 or 11 events, High Costs/Low Revenues will make this unsustainable (it already is), then watch sailing get the boot. Or Modify your thinking a bit, reduce the events and keep the costs down. The 5 medal winners will still have to be World Class in their chosen discipline (even if there chosen discipline is the only one they can choose). Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 The Cost of the hosting the sailing is higher than any of the sports you listed. Really? Athletics even? That's the one which they have to build a massive stadium for? The Chinese stadium cost, apparently US$423 million. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_National_Stadium) and the London stadium is estimated to be costing £537 Million (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Stadium_(London)) Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 By all means keep your head buried in the sand (aimed mostly at YNZ) and go for 10 or 11 events, High Costs/Low Revenues will make this unsustainable (it already is),then watch sailing get the boot. Or Modify your thinking a bit, reduce the events and keep the costs down. Okay, that is a different point to the one I responding to. I am not saying the the cost dimension does not matter, but the sports I replied with initially were just to demonstrate that it was not true that other sports don't have weight classes or events designed for different body weights, and therefore (everything else being equal) why should sailing automatically discount the inclusion of classes aimed at particular weight ranges? I think your point about costs and viewership are valid, but I think it's drawing a long bow to say that the type of sailing that might attract large TV audiences automatically cannot include (at least some) boats suitable/requiring larger body weights. Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 The Cost of the hosting the sailing is higher than any of the sports you listed. Really? Athletics even? That's the one which they have to build a massive stadium for? The Chinese stadium cost, apparently US$423 million. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_National_Stadium) and the London stadium is estimated to be costing £537 Million (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Stadium_(London)) The Stadium cost 423 million but what's it worth at the end of the games? still shitloads right, so the Cost of staging the games is just the Difference between what it cost to build and what its worth after the games are over. That figure won't be that large unless they built a disposable stadium only meant to last a few years. Yachting is the Most expensive of all Olympic events to stage. One massive contributor to that is having to provide identical brand new boats and sails and gear in a number of classes. The boats after the events tend to sell for very little money. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Ummm generally stadiums have a negative value at the end - they get used bugger all and cost ratepayers a huge amount to maintain. Ask Sydney. I think people are confusing Olympic yachting with hooning around. Olympic yachting has always been about one on one competition. The move to standardise boats was a good one - lasers are for me the epitomy of an olympic class. Standard and technical. But you have to be skinny - real skinny. Most of the top laser sailors look like they have come out of a mold - tall and lanky - Murdoch is the exception. I think the Finn is a great big boys boat - I wouldn't touch it. I understand 49ers are bloody hard to sail - great but not sure that they have quite the "Olympic" feel to them that say an FD had - but then I am biased. Another point - I am confident David Barnes and Hamish Wilcox would swap one of their 470 World Championships for an Olympic gold medal. A real shame that despite the absolute dominance of NZ in the late 70s early 80s we never managed an Olympic gold in that class. I was brought up reading about (and living near) Peter Snell, Murray Halberg etc. They were truly awesome Olympic competitiors - the equivalent from yachting was Paul Elvstrom and I guess our own Barbara Kendall. I don't think it has to have telly appeal to be an Olympic sport - that is the latest generation confusing life with sitting on the couch looking at a screen. Nothing telegenic about the marathon but surely a worthy Olympic event. Same goes for many track events - even shot put would be dull as if it wasn't for Valerie blowing the brains of the oposition out with one throw. So I guess my point is for me Olympic sport is not about entertainment rather it is about the pursuit of excellence by dedicated athletes in a variety of disciplines from around the world. I love it!! By the way the Foos were fing blinding last night - what a show!!! (had to slip that in somewhere) Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I was with you till the last sentence, was that english? Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 And the concert you enjoyed was being staged in a Worthless Stadium somewhere in Auckland called the Vector Arena? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Umm no the show was in the town hall - even more worthless Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 By the way the laser association delivers 100s of standard boats to Worlds venues at a cost of $1,500 or thereabouts per boat per regatta - they use the same arrangement to do Olympic regattas - part of the appeal of the boat... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 The YNZ submission makes boring but very short reading. Mind you the suggested single manufacturer would love it. Knot sure the argument about a single manufacturer makes the boats cheaper stacks up that well when you consider a Laser is horrendously expensive for what you get. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 new laser - $10,500 = f**k that! they could be racing bloody piedys for that money! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Last time I looked Piedys hadn't been included in the Olympics. They may well be in the future but not yet... A boat at $10,500 would be a small percentage of what it costs per annum to run an Olympic campaign. These guys compete for more than 10 months each year here and overseas with multiple regattas where they either charter or haul their own boats all over the circuit. How many competitive yachts can be produced for less than the cost of a laser and what are the fleet sizes. From my knowledge of the numbers, Lasers have proven to be the most populous and popular racing dinghy of all time. You can probably do an Opti or a P (neither are senior) but then you will be paying $$$ to chase sails and spar developments ad infinitum. I can't think of a senior single handed boat that you can do from new for less - happy to be wrong there. Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Like you stated though the Laser type casts the likely winner of the event as a Tall Skinny, 75 kg or what ever. at least in a class where there is some variation in Rig you have a chance to compete on more even terms. One Design Yacht leads to One design sailors. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Agree hence I am in favour of including a more powerful (mens) single hander for the gruntier athletes. I see nothing too wrong with the Finn in that role - in fact can't think of an other existing class that has the requisite attributes - most centerboard boats seem to favour lightweights, whereas keelboats favour fat bastards. Personally don't see the need for two two-handed dinghies - particularly as the body shape for both the 49er and the 470 is pretty much identical. Then as to choosing between them - I believe that the 470 is somewhat more tactical (cos the 49er is so bloody hard to keep upright) which probably suits my view of what Olympic yachting is about. But maybe that is just a boring old farts view - I don't have a strong view either way - just reduce to one class. If you are going to have two two-handed boats then I think the decision should cater for a range of body shapes. (Bring back the FD or similar) Maybe the weight thing is why we lose so many teenagers from our sport - a single-handed dinghy sailor can either go to the laser or go to the laser from the junior classes. So anyone who is more than 85kg is out of the game if we don't have a Finn or similar as a big boys snr class. So big guys drift into keelboat sailing and probably get bored shitless as they sit on the rail with bugger all to do (till they have served their time and progressed to the back of the boat/cockpit). I know I spent years as rail blubber and only persevered cos I liked the long races where a newbie got to do something (and the camaraderie). Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 A boat at $10,500 would be a small percentage of what it costs per annum to run an Olympic campaign. No quite what I meant there Rocket. The YNZ submission heads down the one manufacturer route suggesting that would make an Olympic class boat more affordable for the unwashed masses. My suggestion was for what you get a Laser is bloody expensive and the cost, more than likely, has a very large input as it is an Olympic boat. I'd contend that if they were dumped from the Olympics the price would plummet almost overnite. As a FYI a new Laser will set you back 12.5K plus trailer for a base sailaway version. A pro would go on to spend a fair amount more I would expect. Anyway crew weight is a issue and it will become more so. You seen the size of the kids today, they aren't getting smaller, quite to opposite. The bigger the kids the bigger the teenagers they will be, the less likely many will fall into these narrow crew weight ranges. Something will have to give sooner or later. One Design Yacht leads to One design sailors. Very well put that man. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 No the base sailaway is what you race - might need to add a turbo kit ($500ish) and pick through the hulls do get the one with the mast rake you want - but that is why the price is not an issue - once you have spent that is pretty much it. All you do is turn over sails and top sections.... That is the game with one design - you pay up front and don't spend forever more improving/developing - you aren't allowed to. Lasers were very popular before they were the Olympic one man/woman dinghy for that reason. Link to post Share on other sites
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