Silentwind generator

[Je'Timmy 0]

Hi,

Does anyone have any experience with Silent Wind generators that can help answer these questions?

1) is it normal that 6 volts shows here? I can see the battery voltage being charged by the generator (13.1v). I was driving the generator by my battery drill at home in my workshop

The "unload" keeps coming on. Why would this be? What exactly does "unload" mean? The battery voltage is only 12.4v, so wouldn't think the generator should stop charging.

[aardvarkash10 1,065]

Images won't open

[Je'Timmy 0]

Thanks,

Strange,  as they are not attached, but included in the text.

I have attached as JPEG's. Hope this works.

Cheers,

Dave

[Jon 395]

At a guess I’d say your drill isn’t turning fast enough

Try changing speed on drill and see if volts change

[Je'Timmy 0]

Hi Jon,

 I did some more testing today and got the battery voltage as high as 17 volts. That certainly isn’t going to do my battery any good. My conclusion from that is that the regulator ain’t regulating. Bugger! I recently imported it directly from the Silent Wind manufacturer in Portugal.

[Jon 395]

Hopefully they will send you a new reg

[aardvarkash10 1,065]

I'm having problems understaning the graphs.  What are the actual sectors on them?

[Je'Timmy 0]

I too am a bit unsure. This is the App which receives the data from the controller,

The “Battery “ Is measuring the voltage of the battery.

“wind “ must be the generator output.

I can’t find much information about it all

 

[aardvarkash10 1,065]

3 hours ago, Je'Timmy said:

I too am a bit unsure. This is the App which receives the data from the controller,

The “Battery “ Is measuring the voltage of the battery.

“wind “ must be the generator output.

I can’t find much information about it all

 

Makes diagnosis difficult then.  Get a real voltmeter and take real measurements.

[K4309 353]

I was a little bemused at this thread, wondering how the supplier isn't providing technical support. I know sometimes technical support in Eglish as a Second Language can be a tad sub-optimal on occasion (me trying to understand whoflungdung brand cheap but effective lectronic components I've got off Ali Express).

Anyway, on having a look at the website, my understanding (which could be wrong, it has been before) is that you need an external charge controller. Exact same item as for a solar panel. They list them separately on the silent wind website. 

The below is the exert from the 'marine' page of silent wind. The voltages you are reporting out of the wind unit sound similar to the random voltages you get out of solar panels. Run them through a solar controller, like an MPPT version, and they will convert them to the ideal voltage for charging the battery, and vary the current dependent on the power (watts) produced by the wind unit.

Disclaimer, I have never had anything to do with wind turbines, so my apologies if I'm wrong.

PS, you can get a basic but reliable 10a EPever Tracer solar controller for $107 EPEVER TRACER 1206AN MPPT Solar Charge Controller - 10A (micromall.co.nz)

or a Victron 10a unit that has a whole load of additional functionality, monitoring and battery preservation / protection features with intergral bluetooth for $110 SmartSolar MPPT 75/10 (12/24V-10A) – AEP Victron Energy Store

PPS, reading that again, should the charge controller come with the Silent Wind?

The Silent Power Blades are produced in carbon fiber, hand-laminated, with great resistance and minimum noise emission, which is the great differentiator of the Silentwind.

The charge controller is external, hybrid (wind and solar energy), has multifunction display and integrated stop switch (electronic / manual).

The parameters can be adjusted directly in the controller or through the application that is available in IOS and Android. Among the available parameters are the brake module, which allows the maximum current adjustment, and the load cut-off voltage module, which regulates the maximum charge voltage of the batteries.

Marine - Silentwind (silentwindgenerator.com)

[K4309 353]

Edit above, sorry, I only saw the 100w at 19knts, not the full rated power of 420w (29knts). You will need a 35amp or 40 amp solar controller, not the 10 amp stuff I priced above. 40 amp models are in the $220 (EPever) to $310 range (Victron). 

Noting that on the website the 24v and 48v options show a Silent Wind branded charge controller supplied with the wind generator. There isn't a picture of one with the 12v option, but it is listed in the product discrition:

• External hybrid boost charge controller for wind – and solar- energy with multi-function display and integrated electronic/manual stop switchSilentwind PRO 12V - Silentwind (silentwindgenerator.com)

[Je'Timmy 0]

Hi,

The controller is the latest 12v Hybrid from Silent Wind. I have been measuring the output voltage with my multi meter to confirm the produced voltage.

 I’m going back to SW tomorrow asking them to confirm my suspicions that the controller isn’t limiting the produced voltage, as it keeps rising as the generator speeds up until it reaches 14.4v (cutoff voltage). This would be fine if the battery was charged, but I am using a battery that is far from fully charged.

[K4309 353]

That photo is handy and explains a lot.

Good to understand you already have a controller (my misunderstanding).

Most batteries undertake bulk charge at 14.4v. If you battery is far from fully charged, then the controller ramping the voltage up to 14.4v is exactly what it is supposed to do.

There should be a chart in the manual with the charging stages and voltages. Or at least a table with voltage settings for charging of various types of batteries (Flooded lead acid, AGM, Gel, Lithium etc) Bulk charge is typically 14.4v, with as much current as you can get in. Absorption stage is typically 13.8v and the current declines as battery resistance increases until it is fully charged, then it will flick over to float stage (maybe 13.2v and basically no current).

Obviously all those voltage settings are user programmable so can be varied to match the exact requirements of the type of battery. It is important to match the exact requirements of the battery. They are also adjusted for battery temp, assuming you have a temp prob on the battery linked into the controller. I'd be surprised if a system of this cost / quality did not have one. Anyway, that means that if the batt temp is substantially different form 25 deg, you will get slightly different voltages for each stage, compensated for temp.

If you aren't running the wind genny at the time of the photo, I'd say the controller and the volt meter are showing your 'resting' battery voltage, those numbers look typical for a partially charged battery.

[CarpeDiem 510]

7 hours ago, K4309 said:

Most batteries undertake bulk charge at 14.4v. If you battery is far from fully charged, then the controller ramping the voltage up to 14.4v is exactly what it is supposed to do.

Bulk charge is typically 14.4v, with as much current as you can get in.

Absorption stage is typically 13.8v and the current declines as battery resistance increases until it is fully charged, 

This is misleading. 

During bulk phase the current will decrease or stay constant as the voltage increases to the absorption voltage. 

When the voltage reaches the absorption voltage the bulk phase is said to have completed and the absorption phase begins.

During the absorption phase the voltage is held at the maximum and the current decreases. 

Absorption voltage could be 14.4v. 

13.8v is a common but high float voltage and is too low to fully charge any 12v chemistry except LFP. 

[K4309 353]

57 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

This is misleading. 

During bulk phase the current will decrease or stay constant as the voltage increases to the absorption voltage. 

When the voltage reaches the absorption voltage the bulk phase is said to have completed and the absorption phase begins.

During the absorption phase the voltage is held at the maximum and the current decreases. 

Absorption voltage could be 14.4v. 

13.8v is a common but high float voltage and is too low to fully charge any 12v chemistry except LFP. 

In the context of this thread, I'm not really sure what is misleading about it. It's not like I've said vaccines are safe and effective, or anything that could be genuinely misleading.

So I may have mixed up some of the finer points of what the current does, I don't think I have, but the main point is the OP thinks there is a problem with his charge controller going to 14.4v. I can't see a problem with that and understand that is what it's supposed to do in the bulk charge phase. Moreso, many charge controllers and smart alternator regulators go directly to the bulk charge voltage at the start of a charging cycle regardless of the SoC of the battery.

Do you see any issue with the OP's charge controller going straight to 14.4v when the battery is only partially charged?

[CarpeDiem 510]

On 5/09/2024 at 8:44 AM, Je'Timmy said:

Thanks,

Strange,  as they are not attached, but included in the text.

I have attached as JPEG's. Hope this works.

Cheers,

Dave

This is an mppt unit. Fundamentally it's a dc boost converter. 

So on the wind side it's generating 6.9v @ 2.1A

And it's converting that to 13.1v @ 1A

The voltage at the battery terminals certainly should not be 17v.  However the voltage at the wind side could easily exceed 17v depending on the design of the wind generator. 

If you are seeing 17v at the battery terminal then you have a problem. 

It's not clear to me from this thread what your actual issue is?

[CarpeDiem 510]

44 minutes ago, K4309 said:

 Moreso, many charge controllers and smart alternator regulators go directly to the bulk charge voltage at the start of a charging cycle regardless of the SoC of the battery.

 

That is against the laws of physics. Namely ohms law. 

This is your first misleading statement. 

It's physically impossible for a charging circuit to go straight to the absorption voltage regardless of its SoC.

The key word here that you've used is "regardless". 

If the battery is "substantially" charged then the absorption voltage "could" be reached within a matter of minutes or maybe even seconds. However if the battery is "substantially" discharged then the absorption voltage will take substantially longer to reach, hours or even days. 

Your second misleading statement is that a normal absorption voltage would be 13.8v. This is misleading because you are implying that the bulk phase termination voltage and the absorption voltage are somehow different when infact they are not.

44 minutes ago, K4309 said:

Do you see any issue with the OP's charge controller going straight to 14.4v when the battery is only partially charged?

I would need to understand what 'partially charged" meant and the chemistry to be able to assert if this is normal or not. 

Eg, assuming a 100ah AGM at a psoc of 99% then yes it would be perfectly normal for the absorption voltage to be reached in a few seconds. 

Assuming a 100Ah AGM at 70% SoC then this would be impossible unless the battery was short circuited internally and thus naffed. 

While both of these are partially charged batteries the behavior will be different depending on the actual psoc. 

 

[Je'Timmy 0]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I am an electrician so understand your comments regarding the various stages of charging and internal resistance of batteries increasing as they become more charged etc.

What I don’t understand (and this is my issue), is why the controller stops charging at 14.4 v ( this is a pre set parameter for lead acid) even though the battery is not charged.

check out the attachment.

thanks again everyone ⛵️

Information-Bulletin-2022-1-Charging-Cycle-explained.pdf

[CarpeDiem 510]

9 minutes ago, Je'Timmy said:

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I am an electrician so understand your comments regarding the various stages of charging and internal resistance of batteries increasing as they become more charged etc.

What I don’t understand (and this is my issue), is why the controller stops charging at 14.4 v ( this is a pre set parameter for lead acid) even though the battery is not charged.

check out the attachment.

thanks again everyone ⛵️

Information-Bulletin-2022-1-Charging-Cycle-explained.pdf 462 kB · 3 downloads

When you say stop charging.

Can you please define what actually happens when the output voltage reaches 14.4v?

[CarpeDiem 510]

From a cursory glance at that document it looks like the controller is designed only to facilitate the bulk charging phase. 

It looks like end of charge is set at 14.4v thus. The charger never enters the absorption phase it just terminates when the absorption voltage is reached (14.4v).

I would expect to see an end of charge condition measured in Amps (and a time for safety).

What kind of chemistry are you charging? What capacity?