wheels 543 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I have been having a little delema with these things. Some of it my own fault, but most of it the Pumps. The way my boat was biult, the Chain locker never had a drain to outside at the bottom. All water (and of course Mud)) was drained into the first Bilge. So in my Wisdom (haha) I decided a through hull drain was a far better idea. Since, what I have never known, is that under Sail and a bit of speed, the chain locker must fill with water and too a very alarmingly high level. I am not sure what capacity the Locker has, but 30m of 10mm chain takes up about 1/3rd the area and at a guess, it maybe 200+ltrs of space I suppose. That's a lot of weight on the nose when it is half full of water. A few years later on and I was replacing a bilge pump in the second Bilge and decided to change a few things around make a better system. First off, I made it so that the first bilge in the Bow section gravity drained into the second Bilge area, eliminating one bilge pump. It is only a small area and should never get water in there anyway. If it does ever get water in there, then the second bilge should cope with ease. To allow the second bilge pump to pump the greates volume of water, I decide to take the discharge forward to the anchor locker. That way it has very little head. The 3ft head the pump had, made the pump move the water very slowly. The Pump was an Attwood 900. I think I had a small Rule 500 down there orginally, but decided to upgrade and the Attwood was the only one I could get at the time. So what I thin found was the the new Attwood performed so poorly, the water entering the Chain locker overcame the pump and filled the second AND the thrid bilge. Yeup!, the thrid bilge also had a new Attwood fitted. But this pump fried while pumping. Something had jammed it and the pump fried. I have since replaced several Attwoods, with none of them performing very well at all. I had recently tried a Whale and I expected the what to be awesome, but it lasted 3min. Maybe I just had a Dud. Whale are supposedly good Pumps, but this one diod not give me confidence. I have had a lot of issues with the Rule Float swithes, although I must say, the rule Punps have performed well for me over the years. But in more recent time, I have had very poor life from the ITT Jabsco macerator pumps and frshwater pumps. I was going to go and buy some rule pumps, but decided to read up on the net about who says what about pumps. Interestingly I found may good comments about the cheap TMC pumps. So I have just bought two TMC 1000 pumps and fitted them yesterday. WOW!!!! on preformance for a start. Absolutely kicked the but of the Attwood for head and volume of moving the water and level it sucked down to. I have changed plumbing around and the anchor locker can not drain into the boat now. All Bilges discharge over the side well above waterline. I rewired all terminations and coated with a special electrical connection sealant. So hopefull we have that issue now sorted. The big problem with Bilge pumps is that they can sit for years not doing anything and then get asked to do some hard work. Even then, they often don;t get to clock up huge hrs. So who has had what experience with what pumps and I would like to also through in Float switches. Anyone found anything different to me? anyone found a pump that has worked well for year?? Any other comment about pumps?????? Link to post Share on other sites
rigger 47 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Rule pump with seperate float switch - cannot remember rating but it kept up with the leaks when we put the boat in the water and onto a marina berth after 7years dry - I was loaned a larger mains powered pump to pump her out but never needed it - the guy that loaned me the pump seemed surprised that the rule pump coped. Had to shift the float switch several times until I got a position where it would not cycle all the time as the boat took up. I fitted a non return valve (Hansen) - yes they reduce pumping rates but they prevent back flooding and the length of hose that I had to run to get to the O/B discharge meant the narrow bilge would part fill with the water in the line draining back meaning more cycling of the pump. I had another manual bilge pump that could shift more water than the electric bilge pump. Also had a bucket. On the rule float switches - 2 little tugs I work on have them - they get tested often and only one has had to be replaced - and it might have been damaged during testing. Also one gets immersed in hydrauic oil on a regular basis and survives. I tried for straight line runs with the least hard turns and matched hose diameter to pump rating as per spec. Maintenance for my boat pumps included checking bilges for debris, cleaning strainer about pump, checking all valves were working, overhauling / cleaning non-return valve, running bilge pump by running water into bilge well and checking all connections / hose clips were secure and no weeping / cracking hoses - It did not take long - small boat and a simple system. Link to post Share on other sites
too_tall 15 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Regarding check valves, there are 2 types which are non restricting ( but not cheap either ) One is the "flap" type. Have to be mounted correctly otherwise they will "flap" open, these open to 100% flow. The other type is a captive ball which the water pushes to the side and opens to 100% also. While I am not specifically recommending this one, this gives you a good idea of what a flap type is http://www.jtmproducts.co.nz/pdfs/check.pdf And the ball type I refer to is this concept http://www.pumpsystems.co.nz/products/p ... ochure.pdf The ball type will generally seal even if there is a bit of grit against the sealing face as its a moderately soft rubber compound. As for pumps.... I always have a backup installed. And in the jetboat, being that I regularly get a shitload of water in it, I have 2 backups. They would get more use than one in a yacht should, and I find that the Rule and TMC have both performed well. Of course, a venturi on the jet unit works well too... Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 I have found the Electronic Bilge switches to not be so good in the Engine room. With a Perkins engine, we get the odd drop of oil of course and although I have never had an issue with it not turning on, I have often founf the pump running dry and has been doing so for quite sometime. Yes the non-return valves are great. Mine are the flap type. Some, but not huge restriction. Well worth the slight restriction rather than get all the pipe full back in the bilge again. Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Whale do NON RETURN VALVES, inline glass filled plastic units and the internal flapper is a 3 sided piece that looks like a "mercedes car" logo when closed. I have fitted 2 in each discharge line, one just after in the bilge just after the electric pumps to stop recycling and one at the highest point just BEFORE the transom oulet to stop any nasty waves that may break over the transom. We have two electric pumps, on each side of the raised keel timber. One Rule has a separate Rule float switch and the other is an Attwood with the float switch combined as one unit. Both are wired through Rule AUTO - OFF - MANUAL ON switches and we have had no issues. We often run them manually to remove any water let in when the log / plug are exchanged. We get a couple of cupfuls only. http://www.whalepumps.com/marine/product_list/9/59/ Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Some of it my own fault . . . the Chain locker never had a drain to outside at the bottom . . . So in my Wisdom (haha) I decided a through hull drain was a far better idea. Since, what I have never known, is that under Sail and a bit of speed, the chain locker must fill with water and too a very alarmingly high level. Did you make sure the drain hole was square to the topsides. "Of course" I hear you say. Mistake #1. The holes should be aimed DOWN and AFT so that water flowing past is NOT forced into the anchor well. Further the water flowing past can create a small suction from the Venturi effect. If you look on some boats they have a small triangular vent cover over the drain hole to encourage this venturi effect and reduce the back filling effect. You will need to be nice to Dawn to get her to use the kitchen mixer to make a nice plaster mix so you can add some plaster cover / bump / deflection material over you anchor well drains. Put some plastic hose in first as it is easy to drill out later with a . . . wait for it . . . . . . steady on there . . . . . . quiet in the ranks . . . spade bit. Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I have my anchor locker running into my front bilge... TMC 1000 / manual bilge pump. This when full flows into my second bilge. Big electric pump (cant remember what it is) and manual pump. The float switches for both are home made. They have a large float inside a piece of pvc pipe. This has a pushrod that goes up to a "sea saw" with a sealed magnet and reed switch. It means that the electrics are never in the water, even though they are water proof. The float is contained inside the pvc pipe so debri large enough to effect it, cant get in. The float is large enough to be very consistant. Not having check valves can make a big differance. When the pump turns off , the water in the hose "back flushes" the filter screen in the bilge pump. Having a small amount of water in your bilge the rest of the time is a small price to pay for this ability. I also have a large cockpit mounted "last man standing" manual pump. This pump takes about 20 seconds from locker to instaled, as I have made a slide and click mount with industrial vacuum hose connections. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 "Of course" I hear you say. Ummmmmmm........ But yes, the after thought was to put the little Triangle piece over the outlet. So last weekend it was off to Burnsco's and we bought a lovely SST one. Yesterday I went to fit it and I was stretching out from the dock.....little bit further.....just a little bit fur........plonk. I dropped it. Dawn and I watched it slip from site and then she smartly turned to me and said "hmmm and what did we pay for that again??? Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 "And that your honour is why she killed me". That is what the third silly little screw hole is for. Slip some waxen twine through tied to lashing / toerail / stanchion. Then fit 2 screws, remove twine, fit third screw. Simple really. But in your case, I suggested plaster. Plaster to a ferro hull is better than 3 screws letting in water in to rust your chicken mesh So how much was that SST thingy Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 There are pastic equivalents as well normally called "Cable Exit Covers", often found in electrical wholsalers though I know Sailors Corner sell them as well. These FLOAT, but test before you buy!! You may knot be the only person carrying a bucket of water into the shops as you are out hunting Makesure you keep up on your meds that morning Link to post Share on other sites
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