rigger 47 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 As stand on vessel timing is down to you, as far as I am concerned as soon as I feel I need to do something I do. You could be accused of causing a problem but you can accuse the giveway vessel of not acting early enough. If you think you need to take action - do. If you delay you may end up in a bad situation The rules say you can do what is needed to avoid a collision. (2) In interpreting and complying with these rules, due regard must be given to all dangers of navigation, collision, and any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, that may make a departure from the rules of this Part necessary to avoid immediate danger. Sadly the MSA placed this part of the rules - "Responsibility" near the end just before the appendix, where as on the international version it is Rule No2 Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Wash has been done. Aside from that my biggest bugbear is clear intentions. I'm sailing along at 6kts and a planing hull is heading towards me at 25kts. The guy steerring the launch might have seen me and know what he is going to do but I don't know that - sometimes until I get sufficiently worried to take evasive action - which I probably shouldn't do as stand on vessel. So make your intended course change early and clear - to save everyone's nerves. Totally agree there AC, and it's knot only fizzies big or small even if 90% are. It's freaky wondering when that 30tonnes of tupperware baring down on you at over 25kts is going to something/anything. You maybe in the right but you still have zero idea if the tupperware - - know that - even knows the rules - has even seen you - is planning on doing anything and if so when. Life would be so much nicer if they made a clear course change to signal their intentions one way or the other. Doesn't matter if they are 'in the right' or knot as over the years I've learnt most have no idea and I can live with that... as long as I get some idea what their intentions maybe or if they even have any at all. I've many time made a clear course change to indicate my intentions, even if I didn't have to according to the Regs, yet are still left wondering 'will that bugger suddenly look up and make some crazy Ivan manoeuvre?', sadly more then one or 2 have. If many drive there cars like they do their boats they would be dead by now. Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 This is a good thread with potential for some constructive progress if Powerboattraining really is in a position to influence thinking and habits. One suggestion (based on an exercise that worked well in the UK a few years ago) is to arrange for powerboat owners to do a daysail with a yachtie and then reciprocate by taking the sailor for a spin on the launch. This exercise increases awareness for the other person's position a lot. Things you might not have thought of on both sides. I remember one revelation to the powerboaters was how "awful" the visibility is from a yacht. They couldn't get over how restricted the view can be especially closed hauled with a genoa blocking half the view. Compared to the panoramic 360' view from a flybridge the powerboaters realised they needed to factor in the possibility of not even being seen by the yacht, which then makes an unexpected (and unhelpful) tack for instance. And for the yachties they didn't realise how quickly a series of 'targets' appears in close proximity when doing speeds 4-5 x what yachts do. And how hard it can be to please everyone all of the time by keeping clear and ideally passing behind every yacht - but it isn't always possible. I for one would be happy to take a launch driver for a sail although around GH the problem probably isn't as pressing as sharing the more restricted Waitemamta. Worth looking into - could even start a 'boat swap' forum here... Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I rank Powerboaters using Auto Pilots and not keeping a Lookout as the Number 1 issue out there at the moment. The Number of times going through Motohie Channel I've seen quite big launches with no one really paying attention to other harbour users is shocking. you don't just have to worry about your course direction from A to B but also what is in the way in between ! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 one other really annoying thing that's often coming from powerboaters is the f**king spotlight in your eyes as you're entering an anchorage at night , often wish I had a loudhailer and let them know just wank behaviour it is Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 one other really annoying thing that's often coming from powerboaters is the f**king spotlight in your eyes as you're entering an anchorage at night , often wish I had a loudhailer and let them know just wank behaviour it is It's not a spotlight - just a 1,000,000 candlepower anchor light. Link to post Share on other sites
Powerboat Training 0 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Very interesting comments and in fact one or two I hadn't thought of. By far the vast bulk of our training is for the smaller recreational trailer boats. We are working hard to get more awareness with launch owners and operators, which is happening but it is taking time to grow recommendation base. While the 5kt rule is covered on conventional boating courses, I believe the emphasis on wash is not pushed hard. This is an area we do cover, when a student asks me if they are doing 5kts (boat without log), my answer is to look over their shoulder and look at the size of their wash. I also point out people in tenders working on the side of their boats in marinas etc as areas where less then 5kts may be required. An area where a lot of our students have indicated worries and fears are trying to get around racing yachts. For example departing Westhaven on race-night can be quite stressful for those unfamiliar with how sailboats handle, all they can see is a mass of zig-zagging yachts and when they try to stay clear another yacht tacks and stress levels increase even more, this is where the temptation to power up arises as they just want to be past and clear asap. Sometimes powerboaters try to do the correct thing but due to lack of sail awareness, it doesn't always turn out to be the best decision. Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 An area where a lot of our students have indicated worries and fears are trying to get around racing yachts. For example departing Westhaven on race-night can be quite stressful for those unfamiliar with how sailboats handle, all they can see is a mass of zig-zagging yachts and when they try to stay clear another yacht tacks and stress levels increase even more, this is where the temptation to power up arises as they just want to be past and clear asap. Sometimes powerboaters try to do the correct thing but due to lack of sail awareness, it doesn't always turn out to be the best decision. And I can understand that entirely. Even for a yachtie with a reasonable understanding of what a racing boat might do next, negotiating a fleet of pumped up racers can be an tense few minutes. I seriously reckon we need to get a few launch drivers into some yacht cockpits and vice-versa. The difference is that due to the speed, size, wash and general noisyness of powerboats, they draw more attention to themselves than yachts and hence when something does go wrong, the stakes are usually higher and more spectacular/entertaining to watch. I remember driving a mate's 52ft planing launch a couple of years back. I'd spent the 30 mins journey to our destination driving long sweeping S-bends at 25kts trying to go around the stern of every yacht in sight which felt like a slow motion version of that arcade game where you have to get the frog to cross the road without a collision. Then we headed up a narrow river to stop for lunch. It was full of yachts who were watching me like hawks as I did my best to drive a planing hull at sub 5kts up the river - it wouldn't even go that slow in idle with both engines it did about 7 kts - so I was constantly slipping from slow ahead back to neutral. We managed the berthing manoeuvre without incident (and yes I avoided a bowthruster blitz) but it felt like being in a goldfish bowl and I could almost feel the yachties were willing for me to cock up the manouevre. Link to post Share on other sites
Powerboat Training 0 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Lol, good analogy there, I remember the frog crossing the road.... Wasn't very good at that! I hear you with the stares of doom. A lot of launches with 2 engines have trouble doing 5 kts and a common solution is to pop it in and out of gear, an easier solution I have found and I advise our students is to just come ahead on one engine, stb for example, then a slight helm input to stb keeps the launch in a nice slow straight line. Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I hear you with the stares of doom. A lot of launches with 2 engines have trouble doing 5 kts and a common solution is to pop it in and out of gear, an easier solution I have found and I advise our students is to just come ahead on one engine, stb for example, then a slight helm input to stb keeps the launch in a nice slow straight line. Yeah, agreed, the only thing you need to remember is to centre the rudder again when you pop the single engine back into neutral for the final glide to avoid an unplanned turn! Link to post Share on other sites
Powerboat Training 0 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 With regards to stares a funny story for me was my trip with wife and in-laws to Greece. My father in-law was having great difficulty getting the yacht alongside a wind off dock. I obviously knew better than to intervene and incur his wrath. However the berth was just below a yacht club balcony and everyone started shouting advice down to him as to what he should be doing. It was getting a bit ridiculous when finally I told him to just ignore everyone, calm down and he'd be fine. Well... he finally got it alongside and by the time myself and the wife had the lines secured we looked around and couldn't see father in-law. Next thing we hear his voice shouting from the balcony above offering pearls of wisdom like a seasoned pro to the next yacht which was struggling with the tricky wind off berth... I was forever trying to remember the name of those Muppets on the balcony of sesamy street so I could poke fun at him. Link to post Share on other sites
Bogan 8 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 If we could pass one thing on to powerboaters...... ....VD (all my favourite serious points have been made - they need to know what 5 knots actually is) Link to post Share on other sites
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