Life Jackets

[Guest]

More than happy to assist. But not in this thread any more. I was on Page 1?

Maybe we have a Crew night after work. Beers on me and we walk through the options. Probably before White Island.

Thanks for the positive comments in the last week.

[Guest]

Too many beers and it will be Stagger through the options.

[Guest]

Hi KM I thought ais on jackets was so the boat they belong to can find them .

[Guest]

Hi KM I thought ais on jackets was so the boat they belong to can find them .

 

 

This may help from their web site. 18 can also have a map explanation page showing how the signal can be transmitted over land / headland providing there is a land base aerial receiver - transmitter - also can be relayed ship to ship within range and also via satelite.

 

 

http://www.bairdmaritime.com/index.php? ... &Itemid=75

 

 

Digital Yacht has introduced a new class B AIS transponder called the AIT2000. Despite being 50 percent smaller than Digital Yacht’s previous AIT1000 model, it manages to cram in more functionality and is one of the world’s smallest class B devices.

 

A class B transponder sends and receives AIS data to other vessels equipped with either class A or class B AIS systems allowing an on-board chart plotter or radar to display these targets on an electronic chart. The closest point of approach (CPA) and time to closest point of approach (TCPA) of a target can easily be displayed which helps with anti collision calculations. The identity (name, call sign and MMSI number) of other targets can be established by clicking on a target, so it’s a great aid to navigation and communication as well as enhancing safety. All commercial ships over 300 tonnes have to carry a class A AIS transponder and class B transponders, like the AIT2000, have been designed for fitting on non-mandatory vessels such as yachts and fishing boats.

 

Interfacing AIS data to a chart plotter is very important and the new AIT2000 features dual NMEA 0183 input and output capability (with data multiplexing) to allow for just about every possible installation. Digital Yacht has also added their new proprietary N2NETTM interface which is a certified NMEA 2000 system allowing connection to NMEA 2000 networks. For PC users, there’s also a USB connection. It will interface with most leading brands of chart plotter including Standard Horizon, Raymarine, Garmin, Simrad, Lowrance and Furuno to mention a few.

 

The AIT2000 allows connection to either 12V or 24V systems, consumes around 5W (so ideal for use on sailing vessels) and the unit ships with PC programming software as well as SmarterTrack Lite, which is a powerful viewing program for PCs that allows the display of AIS targets and information.

 

Digital Yacht also promise a few optional accessories for the future. With the improved interfacing capabilities of the AIT2000, they will be producing an optional external alarm which activates when an AIS SART or Man Overboard SART message is received. Companies like Kannad and McMurdo are now producing small, life jacket operated AIS SARTs, which will automatically generate an AIS target when a crew member falls overboard and the life jacket inflates. The new AIT2000 will de-code these signals and provide an audio and visual alarm with this additional accessory. There’s also an optional WiFi interface if you want to use an iPad or iPhone to display AIS data.

 

For further information contact:

 

Digital Yacht, New Zealand

 

Web: http://www.digitalyacht.co.nz

 

 

 

[rigger 47]

This may help from their web site. 18 can also have a map explanation page showing how the signal can be transmitted over land / headland providing there is a land base aerial receiver - transmitter - also can be relayed ship to ship within range and also via satelite.

 

Web: http://www.digitalyacht.co.nz

 

As far as I know there may only be 3 active base stations in NZ so far - they were not cheap when I was pricing them - some $40k installed.

For the ship based gear to relay a transmission / message there has to be input from a human operator.

 

The web link above is not working right now - will try again later.

[Guest]

This may help from their web site. 18 can also have a map explanation page showing how the signal can be transmitted over land / headland providing there is a land base aerial receiver - transmitter - also can be relayed ship to ship within range and also via satelite.

 

Web: http://www.digitalyacht.co.nz

 

As far as I know there may only be 3 active base stations in NZ so far - they were not cheap when I was pricing them - some $40k installed.

For the ship based gear to relay a transmission / message there has to be input from a human operator.

 

The web link above is not working right now - will try again later.

 

[For the ship based gear to relay a transmission / message there has to be input from a human operator. ] Only in set down, not down now, then I think you will find it auto.

 

 

 

Are you interested in being a base station ?

 

 

Are you Commercial? Are you in a busy shipping lane area or near a busy shipping lane.

[Guest]

I am also interested i seeing this device. I have never heard of any small AIS transmitting device to wear on a PFD before. A personal EPIRB would be the go for me if I wanted something on the PFD.

I also wonder how reliable the Mustang HIT PFD would be. If it activates at only 4" of water, that is not a lot and surely when on the Bow, a good bit of water up around the waste would set it off. For this reason, we have both the dissolving disc and standard manual that we interchange between us depending on what we are doing.

 

 

 

Hi, It works on water pressure lbs per square inch on the arming kit instalation mechanism................................................................

 

 

 

 

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Google it AIS. http://www.oceansafety.com/what-is-ais.html

[RushMan 31]

One of the crew on Fineline had their life jacket inflate after a large wave tried to wash him off the deck during the Coastal. I think he said it was the disc variety.

 

Luckily we had a spare one handy for the rest of the trip.

[rigger 47]

[For the ship based gear to relay a transmission / message there has to be input from a human operator. ] Only in set down, not down now, then I think you will find it auto.

 

Are you interested in being a base station ?

 

Are you Commercial? Are you in a busy shipping lane area or near a busy shipping lane.

 

As part of a previous job I investigated the uses of Base Stations as an aid to improving safety of navigation in an area where the company operated.

 

Not near/in what I would term a busy shipping lane anymore, but have in the past.

 

Can you define what you mean by

Only in set down, not down now

I have not seen this term and after checking the various manuals etc I have access to there is no mention.

[Guest]

One of the crew on Fineline had their life jacket inflate after a large wave tried to wash him off the deck during the Coastal. I think he said it was the disc variety.

The VERY reason I say no to auto jackets on smaller or wet boats. The chances of a auto banging off are way way higher than getting bonked on the scone and going over the side.

 

OC, did you note in your earlier post that the AIT2000 units your referenced are knot for use with life jackets as they are hard wired and require a lot of extra equipment to work properly? Probably best you do in this thread.

 

Hi KM I thought ais on jackets was so the boat they belong to can find them .

Yes BBay you are right, I was hoping that would come out earlier but it didn't so..........

 

The units you mean and OC is trying to refer to are called AIS-SART units, which are different from normal AIS units. On reflection I do think this is the unit OC meant but it just didn't come out right or he, like many didn't quite understand the semi-subtle differences. You can get mini AIS units but as I mentioned early why bother as they are sh*t unless you are on top of someone. The unit you do want, if you are on a crewed boat where there is at least 2 people on watch all the time or have a fancy boat end unit, is a AIS-SART.

 

Standard AIS - For us recreational is Class B. Class B is intentionally down powered and transmits at 2W only. Class A does it at 12w so is significantly more powerful. If a Class B and Class A unit are in conflict the Class A will win, hands down no questions asked as the system is designed that way. Class B has a nominal range of 8nm max on a very good day with a very good set-up. A Class A can get out to 70nm but generally is more like 35. The reason why Class B is down powered is there is a set number of transmission spots per minute in the AIS system so if there are lots of units around, don't forget buoys, lighthouses, nets and many other things have AIS now and if they are commercial they will most likely be Class A, the Class A units get preference and Class B are told to piss off. So that is why Class B don't see that far and at times can look like they are transmitting away happily yet no one can see them. Class B is nearly a why would ya and as time goes on and the number of Class A units increase it'll be even more harder for a Class B to get space. We'll be fine down here for a while but there are already reports of Class B units just knot getting in up around the busy waters of the English Channel for example. Class A also transmit a lot more info than a Class B.

 

A AIS-SART. For a start it's a Class A unit so it'll pop up on the screen no matter what and won't be over ridden like it could be if it's a Class B unit, like a lot of the real small units can be. These SART versions have a GPS built in so transmit the location without the need to be hooked to something else. But they are low power and have bugger all range, around 4nm nominal range so in ruff weather it could be down to 100's of meters, maybe less. So they are really only a MOB assistance device rather than anything long range or term.

 

If you are wearing one and fall over mid Tasman unless you can see another boat with your eyes you may as well be wearing a box of Strawberry Donuts. But if you have someone alert aboard that boat who see's you go over then all going well they can use the unit to come back for you. But then if no one see's you or doesn't notice for an hour or so we are back to the Strawberry Donuts again. For a solo sailor they would be less use than our Strawberry Donuts bar maybe for body recovery?? And that would have to be quick as the operating life span of the units isn't good... so far. So you can see why I make the 'false sense of security' comments.

 

A AIS-SART would be worth a suss on something like a Volvo, and I'm pretty sure they did actually have them or something like them, or maybe during a series like the SIMRAD where there are lots of boats around you.

 

But AIS, in general, does have some large limitations and even when at full speed still limited as you have no idea if the AIS info you are seeing on your screen is actually correct. If the sending unit was setup wrong, any unit attached to it is set-up wrong or you had a simple power cut which reset a GPS for example, it could easily be sending out the wrong information, including the location.

 

As for signals going around corners and the like, Yeap they can assuming there is yet more equipment in the mix.... and you know it's there, like a repeater of which there aren't many (any??) in the deep blue. So rather than being a sound reliable multipurpose low limitation lifesaving device it's very much a case of 'Feeling lucky punk.... well are you? Personally, and as pointed out earlier...... No I'm knot so I'm knot going to get one and give myself a false sense of security even though I know most of the limitations, as opposed to someone on OC's boat maybe??? A total guess there obviously.

 

Oh and all the smaller AIS-SART units are manual activation so unless you jiggery pockery one into your auto life jacket some how you won't see OC or JP wearing one anyway

[rigger 47]

User manuals for

 

- McMurdo AIS-SART

http://www.mcmurdo.co.uk/images/documen ... ue%204.pdf

 

- Kannad AIS-SART

http://www.kannadmarine.com/documents/R10_manual.PDF

 

Interesting that with the McMurdo unit it seems to say you must hold it above the water and that your body forms part of the antenna

 

Another tool that many people will fail to understand the limitations of....

 

 

BTW the AIS system is required to be able to have 2000 time slots by the IMO and the ITU standards require 4500 time slots..... that is a good number of targets...

[Guest]

Ok but I would have thought the receiving antennae, being at the top of the mast, would have a good chance at picking up signals from someone in the water fairly close by. I mean if I lost someone over the side I'd like every possible chance at getting them back. Sure its technology and it breaks but the accidents already happened and if it helps its a lifesaver. I don't think we have the same problems they have in the english channel either, probably never will have that much traffic.

[Guest]

One of the crew on Fineline had their life jacket inflate after a large wave tried to wash him off the deck during the Coastal. I think he said it was the disc variety.

 

Luckily we had a spare one handy for the rest of the trip.

 

 

Should have a couple on rearming kits in the spares locker - they are cheap enough.

[rigger 47]

There have been many instances of a person going overboard and not being missed for an hour or more. This may be where an AIS-Sart may save a life by alerting the crew onboard that someone has gone overboard.

 

but... with a range of 4nm it would only take half an hour for a vessel doing 8kn to be technically on the limit of detection. Imagine if the person that went overboard was unconcious for a short time and they struggled to activate the unit. Then again without one you would have next to no chance of retrieving them.

 

So.... if you are at sea and enjoying some music as you sail along is your AIS / plotter hooked up to mute the music if an alert comes through?

 

Not against using the gear but I like to know the limitations / restrictions of the gear.

[Guest]

Ok but I would have thought the receiving antennae, being at the top of the mast, would have a good chance at picking up signals from someone in the water fairly close by. I mean if I lost someone over the side I'd like every possible chance at getting them back. Sure its technology and it breaks but the accidents already happened and if it helps its a lifesaver. I don't think we have the same problems they have in the english channel either, probably never will have that much traffic.

 

 

All commercial ships into and out on NZ. auto have them by law that are over 300 tons and all commercial ferries irrespect on their size. Accordingly fullers ferries the lager will have receivers as well and can / are interface on their chart plotters and radar screens. And once one vessel has received it - the signal - all commercial vessals will have your exact position on their equipement as well. Overseas coastguards have the receivers.

 

[Guest]

OC, did you note in your earlier post that the AIT2000 units your referenced are knot for use with life jackets as they are hard wired and require a lot of extra equipment to work properly?

 

[quote="bbay

 

Oh and all the smaller AIS-SART units are manual activation so unless you jiggery pockery one into your auto life jacket some how you won't see OC or JP wearing one anyway http://www.oceansafety.com/what-is-ais.html

 

 

http://www.oceansafety.com/leisure/prod ... s-srs.html

 

 

 

The 2nd statement I regard as a threat Knot you.

[Guest]

Yeh right, Korean crew will all have their iporns on with headphones as well if they are not asleep at their post. I agree with KM, these would be fairly useless for anyone but the vessel that lost the crew.

[Guest]

Yeh right, Korean crew will all have their iporns on with headphones as well if they are not asleep at their post. I agree with KM, these would be fairly useless for anyone but the vessel that lost the crew.

 

 

 

 

Wrong again.

[Guest]

Thats an opinion, still is my opinion.

[rigger 47]

All commercial ships into and out on NZ. auto have them by law that are over 300 tons. Accordingly fullers ferries the lager will have receivers as well and can / are interface on their chart plotters and radar screens. And once one vessel has received it - the signal - all commercial vessals will have your exact position on their equipement as well. Overseas coastguards have the receivers.

 

 

I believe you have this wrong

And once one vessel has received it - the signal - all commercial vessals will have your exact position on their equipement as well

I have worked with many different models of AIS units and none of them automatically forward alerts onward to other vessels - the older DSC systems had it as default but newer ones have it set manually as the auto forward / relay caused major issues - think positive feedback.

Automatc relay results in every vessel relaying the alert resulting in possibly hundreds if not thousands of vessels getting pointless alerts that they cannot respond to due to distance.

 

Then again things do change so I could be out of date, could you please quote (as well as weblink) to the resolution /regulation requiring automatic relay I would appreciate it.

 

BTW - akl rule

AUTOMATIC IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM (AIS)

The Auckland Regional Council Navigation Safety Bylaw 2008 requires certain vessels to carry AIS.

3.26 Automatic identification system

1. No person may operate a commercial fast vessel within the Auckland pilotage area when the Harbourmaster has declared the area affected by fog, or operating under a fog routine, unless it has onboard a fitted and operational Automatic Identification System approved by the Harbourmaster.