Mast wiring

[Guest]

I have to rewire my mast, from scratch, so what's best to use?

 

The targeted to go up there somewhere gear list -

Masthead light is a new Optolamp, LED Tri-colour with anchor light and strobe built in.

Adding a steaming light as I don't have one.

Adding a VHF as I don't have one

Adding windgear as I don't have any.

 

Also anything to watch out for in the way of good, bad, conflicting or interference issues? Run from masthead to the battery is 16mts. Run from masthead to intended primary switch panel location is around 14mts. Primary panel will be approx 1500mm above the battery which is about 1mt from the mast base, as a wire runs.

[Kiteroa 8]

If you've got any mates in the aircraft service industry (Air NZ) etc, get some of the 7-core shielded aviation cable. It's silver cored, stainless steel braided cover with slipery teflon sheathing. Very light also. I had a pile of it out of a 767 loom, but slowly my mates and I have used it up. Trick is to run a common negative between as many lights as you can. Then you save yourself 1/2 the cable.

[Island Time 1,235]

sent you a pm

[Guest]

One does wonder why you're sending me John Key.

I bet he's pissed off if you have jambed him in a E40 courier bag

 

I know people who fiddle with aircraft. Onto them Thanks WT. Then IT can make sure I glue it all together so when I flick the switch I get coffee knot tea.

[Island Time 1,235]

km, in your situation you cannot share the negative with the masthead light, as there is no negative. that lamp swaps polarity to provide the anchor/tri-color functions. you'll need at least 3 wires for that light, 4 if you want the "fast" strobe function. also remember you cannot test it in the daylight - it won't turn on in the light. put a cloth over it, and wait at least 10 secs for it to switch on...

let me know if you need a hand.

[idlerboat 116]

Doing one right now with same gear as yours.

IT is spot on with multi function LED mast head lights.

As a starting point though, check your conduit.

With that kind of cable load you will probably need at least 2 x 32 mm light ally runs. One to the mast head and one to the lower spreaders. Keep the lower one the same size just in case you want to add Radar as well.

There is all sorts of tricks for putting them in and then pulling them up to rivet. If your mast is not annodised, and you have it down, it may be worth stripping and painting, or anodising.

All so much easier than when its standing up.

Double check your deck glands, and allow enough run for VHF, TV , Radar, to run an uncut length straight to the device.

Check your sheaves for wear, and your halyards also.

If you are adding new gear, then use Durolac, or a similer product on all surfaces that are stainless...all highload rivets (SS), and definately all stainless bolt threads.

This advice may be completely redundant if you have a carbon mast !!

The usualy tinned wire for lights etc...wind instruments come with their own cables. VHF coax should be the best low loss that you can find (It does make a big differance).

We use stage set fiberglass rods to pull wires. These are 1.5 M sections of glass rods with bronze threads.

Not that expensive and saves a sh*t load of trouble.

With a re run like you have said, dont even bother doing it standing.

Finaly have had no reports with VHF problems with optolamp, Nasa, and a few others but do be very carefull.

Not LEDs themselves but the circuits that in some applications are used, kill VHF and HF and TV to a very disturbing degree !

I have one (not a nav light) that wipes all of the above....

[Guest]

You wouldn't say 'All so much easier than when its standing up' if you saw how small it is at the top. In my case down is far easier. No radar or any of that crap. I know how to put them in and all that stuff, I did my time as a sparmaker (old school, knot back stuff) so it's sort of nice playing again.

 

32mm cable?? That's the stuff we use on anchor winches, the big ones. What the hell have you got up your mast that needs that much grunt?

[Guest]

Spoke to mate and he's said he's can hook me up with some 7 core shielded wire stuff. Each core is good for 1 amp and is 0.2 mm. He said it's screened, whatever that means. Sounds OK but also sounds tiny but then I'm using LED's so don't need big. I did like the 6mm OD.

 

That sound like the go?

[Island Time 1,235]

km, 0.2mm cross sectional area or dia? either way, in my opinion, that's way to small. its not the current, but the voltage drop in the cable that's the issue. the run length is 32m (16 each way). which will give you quite a v drop if the cable is too small. sounds like that cable is data cable.

 

I'd like to see a cable of about 3mm square, or around 2mm dia would be best. that is calc at a 1a load, so gives some reserve. it allows for a 3% voltage drop in the cable, and is calc for copper cable.

 

shield is good, (its a mesh screen or foil surrounding the conductors, and helping to avoid interference) but not essential for this application.

[Guest]

A cross sectional area of 0.22mm, he tells me.

 

One of the lads said why knot trailer wire. 6 at 1mm square and one at 2mm square all in one wire.

[Island Time 1,235]

Cause trailer wire is not tinned (normally), so corrodes faster, and does not meet ABS standards... That is also a bit too small for a 32m run, and will result in much more voltage drop, and that leads to failure of the nav lights before the batt is actually flat.

 

A proper, tinned, marine cable is what you want. about 2mm sq area....

[idlerboat 116]

:lol: You wouldn't say 'All so much easier than when its standing up' if you saw how small it is at the top. In my case down is far easier.

Thats what I said, much easier down than up.

(but it may suprise you what can be safely climbed...if you think of the loads that the top of a mast (even in a smaller boat and tapered section, then 100 kg static load straight down is not a lot)

 

 

No radar or any of that crap. I know how to put them in and all that stuff, I did my time as a sparmaker (old school, knot back stuff) so it's sort of nice playing again.

 

32mm cable?? That's the stuff we use on anchor winches, the big ones. What the hell have you got up your mast that needs that much grunt?

 

Not cable !! CONDUIT.....the tuibe that you run your electrical cables through.......keeps your in mast running rigging from wearing through your electrics...

That is 32 mm dia,TUBE ///

NOT 32 squared as in copper wire. (The stuff you use for anchor winches, electric sheet winches and bow thrusters...)

You will find that 32 mm Dia tube is about the right size for a full set of mast head wires. any less and the draw through can become difficult.

 

Ok no Radar, then 22 mm conduit for lights only at the lower spreders. (Deck lights and steaming).

 

And as IT said about mast head nav light cable.

Trailer cable is very light on the copper side. If you are going the cheaper option, even 240 V three core flex is better. But without tinning, unless you seal the ends very well it will wick. That is corrosion will run down the outer surface of the copper.

Just my 1 cent worth, for what it is worth.

[Guest]

Opps, sorry Idler I thought you meant 32mm wire, which happens to be one of only 3 odd I know, the others being 25mm and 16mm square, all common winch wiring sizes. Hence my WTF are you running comment.

 

The mast has a 20, maybe 25mm, alloy conduit in it. I'm guessing by the sticker that was faded as when I sanded it all last week, it was Matrix made. Having seen lots all alloys close up and made a fair few I can say the team who made my mast did a damn nice job.

 

I'll suss what I pulled out, that powered the last 25W bulb powered MH light that caused low level radiation burns it was that bloody bright. It was so grunty it even took the hair off the top of Ottos head

[Guest]

Here's what came out next to std household or in these wires cases, my man cave, 3 core 1.5 and 2.5mm.

 

I reckon with my knot overly calibrated eye the actual guts of the one I removed is close as dammit the same as the 1.5mm. Maybe a smidgen less say 1.2mm ??? It's also a 'lot of tiny strands in each wire' (knot getting to technical there I hope ) model rather than bigger course ones that is in the 2 larger sizes. There is a lot more insulation on the 2 bigger ones.

 

No sign of it being tinned but it wasn't removed gentle so they may have done the ends real well. I understand it's been powering the old MH light since 95.

[Island Time 1,235]

OK, looks like house cable. cheap, but heavy. strip a bit of the end, and see if the outside of the copper is black. if it is, chuck it out. lots of little strands is called stranded. one wire is called solid. solid has no place on a boat, it can fracture with vibration/movement. unfortunately stranded cables wick water into them more than solid, so it will be surprising if its clean. if it is it shows a good install, with drip loops etc. back then the marine cable was really expensive and relatively rare. it was not unusual to see boats wired with domestic or automotive cable.

 

if it is not black, you can use it again, provided you accept that it is not marine cable, and will not deal with water ingress as well.

[smithy09 50]

KM, I have just done this on the Marshall. I made up my own wiring loom using 22 guage tinned wire bundled together. This is about 0.6mm csa. I did measure some volt drop, but nothing too significant. (Can't remember exact figure) I used 7 cores to power anchor light, windex light, deck light and motoring light, all LED. Motoring light and deck light used a common ground. Weight saving over the household rubbish in your photo was huge, and the lights are plenty bright. Got the wire from RS. Wasn't cheap at $153 for 100 metre reel... But all good.

Wrapped it all together using 40mm lengths of heat shrink at about 1 metre intervals. I was a bit worried about mechanical strength and abrasion resistance, but so far, no issues, and it's been pulled into 2 masts now!!

[idlerboat 116]

Hi KM, all good..

That looks like house 240 V cable.

But with nothing to scale it off, it is a bit hard to tell. (some lighter three core cabe has very similar layout and jacketing)

Only guessing but from the pics it looks to me like on the negative cable on the left hand pair in your pics there is wicking. That is the copper looks black. And in a few spots on the other cables to a lesser degree.

I agree with IT dont use single strand wiring in a mast, or anywhere else for that matter. It is to brittle to cope with boats, and its a total fail when it goes. (and very hard to find just where when it does). It is also to stiff to chase through.

After that, tinned or not ?

For me its down to money and circumstance.

If you have the coin, then why not ?

But that is a bit like everything in this world isnt it ?

Tinned cable is made for a limited market for extreme applications.

The cost is (not what its worth) but reflective of that market.

So now lets be totaly real.

I have found no boats that have had electrical failures due to untinned wire EXCEPT at the terminal points.

I have found a small amount of loss, over the run.

On heavy usage that may be a problem, but if you are going for LED or similar tech, with cable of this type you are so over the safe margins.

Wicking is only possible with unsealed ends. Carefull termination with hot glue impregnated heat shrink and neuatral cure scilcone is a hundred times more than the 30 year old boats lights that still work.

SO, go for tinned.......or buy an industrial 30 m extension cord......cut the ends off. Desgined for movement and tight jacket, and rough treatment ...and super cheap. (not house flex)

[idlerboat 116]

As, a further and quite important point...

I mentioned terminals.

With un tinned wire..

If you wish to solder, RE soldering cable that is tarnished/corroded/blackened...whatever.....is very difficult.

The solder only takes to clean metal. In multy stranded cable, you can imagine how hard it is to clean all sides of all of the strands.

There is chemical solutions, but better to not have too...

Make your terminatons perfect ..first time.

[Guest]

Thanks guys. All good info for the job and for the grey matter to store away, it likes doing that.

 

Final plan decided. Only the Optolamp will need wire to it at the very top so that's good. I'll try and run 4 but the diagram suggests I can get away with 3 if I don't want a fast strobe option..... but then that sounds cool so I want it, yes for no particular reason bar I have it.

 

I will add a steaming light but as that will be low I'll run a totally separate wire. It's also a bugger all amps sucking LED so that doesn't need to be too big either.

 

The VHF and wind gear will be what they will be so I'm stuck with that.

 

All will run down the mast and to a panel sitting between the mast base and the battery which is directly below that on top of the keel. So the run length will be minimum and the panel knot be in a place where it gets saturated in wet or with wet kites, as the current one has done a few times. I'll also be easily able to see what's on or knot from anywhere aft of the main bulkhead. A love it when a plan comes togeather.

[Island Time 1,235]

sounds good. I did not bother with the 4th wire for the masthead. the standard speed strobe works fine.... saves weight as well! but up to you of course!