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Sunmissions on Akl Lifejacket bylaw


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Your previous post hit the spot ScottiE - I went along on Fri 30th to do my duty and say something about the the whole crazy process - it just does my head in watching the whole groaning process whereby we have regional safety standards (oxymoron). Image the uproar from the road transport lobby group if the govt proposed regional road safety laws, or the aviation industry if regional variations were proposed. But here we have laws which significantly vary between Northland, Auckland, and the Waikato, and we're all supposed to think that makes sense. There was even a submission from the Waikato Council, supporting the Auckland proposal as it was then, even though the proposal was different to the Waikato laws! We really have reached a point where the boating public are just a plaything for the bureaucrats.

 

It just makes ya want to run away to a remote island to see the whole (expensive) charade of well paid professionals earnestly discussing the best way to create complex, inconsistent, subtly different laws that maximise the oportunity for confusing the boating public. Never mind, at least the whole process gets included in measures of GDP, so I guess the accountants see it as a positive!

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I quite like the look of the ammended rules in Auckland, not too restrictive and a lot more practical than the initial draft, can't see too many down sides. It seems that some people will never be happy with anything.....!!

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I made submissions at the Public Hearing on the 30th.

Fortunately I was early on the list so I was able to escape early in the piece with my sanity intact.

I can't see why the navigation safety rules are not simply adopted, without repeating them ad nausem in the bylaw and said that.

My feeling about the committee hearing the submissions was that they think the Waitemata is nice to look at but go out on it, well that could be dangerous.

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Unfortunately local body government attracts an even lower standard of politician than at national government level. The article below gives a pretty good background of how this came about. As best as I can see it was emotive lobby pressure on a couple of south Auckland councillors. Sadly, they missed the point completely. Perhaps Maritime NZ should have driven the point home with a sledge hammer by prosecuting the skipper in the situation below - oh wait - he'd suffered enough. FFS

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=11165938

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Alf Philipina was one of the hearing committee.

I would have thought that an advocate for the proposed rule would have stepped down from the committee because of a conflict of interest.

anyway i am pleased that some form of sanity has prevailed.

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Yes we do enforce it. We, like Auckland, have Enforcement Officers on duty around the regions coast and waterways. Where they see someone not wearing a lifejacket when they should be, they stop and talk to the person. The reports back to me via our Recreational Boating Officer are that there is an extremely high compliance rate, with only a few breaches.

 

We, like many Councils, have been undertaking a survey (for ACC) which looks at lifejacket carriage and wearing. The times I have stood on the ramps here (and in Tauranga) this summer I have seen excellent compliance with both carriage and wearing.

 

I can feel some people on the forum are getting upset by the Auckland proposal. My suggestion is to think of the times you have been boating this summer and which of those times you would have had to do something different. Once you have identified those times ask yourself honestly if that change of your behaviour will make you safer or not?

 

On a personal note, we carry lifejackets in our dinghy when heading off from the yacht. We don't always wear them (allowed by our bylaw). When we have a heightened risk (coming back from the pub or a neighbour, strong wind, lots of gear to carry) we put them on. If we head off in the RIB we always wear a lifejacket or have our Dive wet suits on for diving. The lifejacket has saved my life once already, no ifs no buts. Yes we do a lot more boating than most people so get more exposure.

 

In the perfect world you would not need any rules because people would be sensible, nice and have respect for themselves and other's. Ok maybe one rule; no muppets can drive or be in charge of a boat. But people do silly things like waterski amongst swimmers close to the beach, so maybe we need some rules

 

No matter what a bylaw or rule says only you can make yourself wear a life jacket, but it's not only you that suffers when it goes wrong if you don't. :(

 

Good stuff Elenya.

 

Remind people re the Whakatane incident.

 

Two kids on board both wearing life jackets - not inflatable types and did not have crotch straps.

Skipper gave them the jackets age 10- 12 to put them on themselves and went about organising the launching. like most I supposed he glanced and saw they where on. Boat capsized. One child survived the other did not. Jacket found floating - slipped from child.

 

Result police charged.

 

Judge ruled MSA ruling re Skippers responsible. Read Skippers responsibility

 

Every boat, no matter how big or small, must have a skipper. The skipper is legally responsible for the safety of the boat and all the people on board, and is also responsible for complying with all the relevant rules and regulations.

 

Even though no licence is required to operate a pleasure boat in New Zealand, ignorance of any maritime rules or regional bylaws is not accepted as an excuse. Failure to comply can lead to fines or prosecution.

 

Before you undertake any form of boating activity, we recommend you undertake some form of boating education and understand the “rules of the road on the water”.

 

http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/Recreatio ... lities.asp

 

Judge ruled he failed his responsibility that he assumed the child would be safe and did not check to see if the jacket was secure and could not be pulled over his head.

 

2 years jail.

 

A crotch would have saved that child.

 

Personally I would not be inconvenienced by wearing a inflatable with crotch strap, have a cell phone and a vhf.

 

Most people these days have a cell phone. So you are only talking about a water proof container or wallet.

 

How do you know if your inflatable rib with motor, should it flip the propeller is going to avoid causing injury to you and you have under estimated the tidal rip or some other unforeseen circumstance.

 

Really most boaties / yachties when going ashore have a back pack and a inflatable pfd and VHF once ashore should be no real hassle.

 

Talk about a storm in tea cup.

 

However I agree they should be all standardised nation wide and perhaps MSA regulated.

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O/C - not sure what point you are trying to argue - I'm not even sure you know what point you are trying to make. The point is that a bylaw by councils is simply the wrong forum to be imposing anything if this nature. Your example clearly shows that. There is no arguement that life jackets should be worn in situations that warrant - the argument that a local council can legislate to protect us from ourselves shows how crazy these entities have become.

And here's another life jacket example

- in the Waikato - where the bylaw's pointlessness is borne out. It is now for both MNZ and WDC to prosecute - guess who won't!

 

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article ... d=11273759

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O/C - not sure what point you are trying to argue - I'm not even sure you know what point you are trying to make. The point is that a bylaw by councils is simply the wrong forum to be imposing anything if this nature. Your example clearly shows that. There is no arguement that life jackets should be worn in situations that warrant - the argument that a local council can legislate to protect us from ourselves shows how crazy these entities have become.

And here's another life jacket example

- in the Waikato - where the bylaw's pointlessness is borne out. It is now for both MNZ and WDC to prosecute - guess who won't!

 

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article ... d=11273759

 

The point is obvious.

 

If a person had of drowned the skipper would have been charged with an offence.

They are lucky charges have not been laid. It is a bylaw and not a police issue until either the council request charges to be laid or a citizen lodges a complaint.

 

Complete wastes of tax payers money, resources, endangering and inconveniencing innocent third parties who tried to rescue them.

 

Many more issues like this expect alcohol breathe testing, similar to motor vehicle alcohol laws on the water on skippers.

 

They are just waiting for the opportunity to enact liquor laws on the water [ harbour ] users.

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I must admit that I hate too see regulations put in place when common sense should prevail. Often on the roads and on the water we are seeing more regulations imposed on the boating public just because of the actions of a few idiots. It is a great pity that more emphasis couldn't be placed on targeting the idiot element with reasonable punishments and leaving the rest of the boating public to enjoy their time on the water. Eventually I am sure this is going to lead to registration or calls for registration of all vessels where education and deterrents for the fringe element are really what is required. God forbid that someday our harbor is regulated as high as some of the American harbours are.

As a recreational fisherman for 50 years and a professional mariner for over 25 years I think I have the common sense to work out where and when I should put a life Jacket on and don't really need some pencil pusher telling when I should do it.

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I must admit that I hate too see regulations put in place when common sense should prevail. Often on the roads and on the water we are seeing more regulations imposed on the boating public just because of the actions of a few idiots. It is a great pity that more emphasis couldn't be placed on targeting the idiot element with reasonable punishments and leaving the rest of the boating public to enjoy their time on the water. Eventually I am sure this is going to lead to registration or calls for registration of all vessels where education and deterrents for the fringe element are really what is required. God forbid that someday our harbor is regulated as high as some of the American harbours are.

As a recreational fisherman for 50 years and a professional mariner for over 25 years I think I have the common sense to work out where and when I should put a life Jacket on and don't really need some pencil pusher telling when I should do it.

 

+1. Nicely said. There's plenty of laws in place that cover negligence, duty of care etc etc already, no need for more.

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Well said Dusty.

 

I don't think it's a reaction to 'idiots' as such more than it is to people who just don't have the required knowledge due to assorted reasons, some (many??) being geographical and historical. If that's the case then laws won't change bugger all and the only thing that will is education.

 

I have the odd thing to do in the aftermaths (there are quite intense investigations and reenactments) and and most of the victims aren't dumbarses more than they are in the wrong place at the wrong time but they just didn't have the knowledge to see that.

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Just a thought for everyone, I am just wondering with all of these regulations being so localised and differing from area to area, that perhaps it is time to look seriously at the way our harbours and bylaws are created and administered. It seems that for standardisation of the rules around the country that it might be better if the Harbourmasters and bylaw making came under the direction of Maritime NZ or a similar national body instead of regional and city Councils.

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I must admit that I hate too see regulations put in place when common sense should prevail. Often on the roads and on the water we are seeing more regulations imposed on the boating public just because of the actions of a few idiots. It is a great pity that more emphasis couldn't be placed on targeting the idiot element with reasonable punishments and leaving the rest of the boating public to enjoy their time on the water. Eventually I am sure this is going to lead to registration or calls for registration of all vessels where education and deterrents for the fringe element are really what is required. God forbid that someday our harbor is regulated as high as some of the American harbours are.

As a recreational fisherman for 50 years and a professional mariner for over 25 years I think I have the common sense to work out where and when I should put a life Jacket on and don't really need some pencil pusher telling when I should do it.

Dusty and KM care to comment what went wrong with these situations which are being posted monthly.

 

http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/News/

 

http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/news/media-releases-2014/20140110a.asp

 

Matt, might I respectfully suggest that you place a hyperlinked heading on the board index forum bar LATEST MNZ NEWS.

So members can see how frequently these so called idiot happenings are happening and not by idiots alone.

They are over confident, laziness issues, can't be bothered attitudes and under estimating the unexpected situations.

 

http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/News/Medi ... s-2014.asp

 

 

Not boat registration but alcohol testing by the harbour masters with wardens. I have previously stated that MNZ should dictate the regulations with the loop hole wordings tightened so the harbour masters and warden can issue instant fines plus every boat skipper must have min qualifications,l boat masts C and a Restricted radio licence C. This will surely avoid boat registration.

 

On land even a motor scooter rider is required to have a licence / certification.

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Dusty and KM care to comment what went wrong with these situations which are being posted monthly.
As drownings off the boats we use is a LOT lower than almost every other cause, at only 2%, No I don't care to help you make a mountain out of a molehill. If you want to go on a crusade get hold of Land Transport and lobby then to make wearing life jackets in cars compulsory as you are a LOT more likely to drown in a motor vehicle accident than you are off a yacht in NZ waters.

 

Not boat registration but alcohol testing by the harbour masters with wardens. I have previously stated that MNZ should dictate the regulations with the loop hole wordings tightened so the harbour masters and warden can issue instant fines plus every boat skipper must have min qualifications,l boat masts C and a Restricted radio licence C. This will surely avoid boat registration.
Unworkable, way to much cost to set up, cause too many fights, unenforceable and all to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
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Dusty and KM care to comment what went wrong with these situations which are being posted monthly.
As drownings off the boats we use is a LOT lower than almost every other cause, at only 2%, No I don't care to help you make a mountain out of a molehill. If you want to go on a crusade get hold of Land Transport and lobby then to make wearing life jackets in cars compulsory as you are a LOT more likely to drown in a motor vehicle accident than you are off a yacht in NZ waters.

 

Not boat registration but alcohol testing by the harbour masters with wardens. I have previously stated that MNZ should dictate the regulations with the loop hole wordings tightened so the harbour masters and warden can issue instant fines plus every boat skipper must have min qualifications,l boat masts C and a Restricted radio licence C. This will surely avoid boat registration.
Unworkable, way to much cost to set up, cause too many fights, unenforceable and all to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

 

Respectfully disagree.

 

KM " If you want to go on a crusade get hold of Land Transport and lobby then to make wearing life jackets in cars compulsory as you are a LOT more likely to drown in a motor vehicle accident than you are off a yacht in NZ waters. "

 

the above a ridiculous answer.

 

 

I will be lobby for compulsory all Boats registration.

 

SH

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If you'd like a real informed discussion Sailinghigh then please go away and inform yourself then come back and we'll try again. Until you do that there isn't any point.

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