Simrad 50 Race Report

[Guest]

Must say I was suprised with the number of boats who chose to start on Port.

 

That is a little like starting a motor race facing the wrong way and hoping that you would do the first lap backwards before any traffic arrives?

 

Shows a lack of experience on alot of parts and had much potential for damage. Basicly just dumb, and if you think back to sailing 101 in the opti did they say to start on port or stbd, I'm pretty sure they said make sure the tiller is in your left hand?

 

The line should have been a bit longer for fleet size and conditions too I thought.

 

20/20 vision backwards eh.

 

WTF - were you actually out there?

 

It was a port tack reach from a heavily bias line. Starboard tack wasnt an option unless you enjoy sailing the wrong way!!

 

Yes sweety I was, and we started on sbd. Some times in sailing you sail the wrong way before you sail the right way.

 

 

There was always going to be someone come into the pin on sbd and gybe away, so if you started on any other board you were relying on either clearing ahead (there wasnt that much bias and certainly not from the pin) or just relying on the fact that everyone else would go around you.

 

In our division most of the smart money started on sbd and gybed asap into clear air. Only problem was we had to go around all the port tackers parked who wernt even aware of their obligation to give way.

 

WTF?

[Guest]

It is not written in law that you have to start on starboard. I have been invloved in a lot of glamour port tack starts! (Most of the time I have been watching the bugger on port tack cross the fleet...) And given the wind direction - port was the way to go.

 

We were in the small boat div (Farr 727), and like all previous starts there was always gona be a tossle for the odm of the start boat. We conceeded only one boat would win in that situation so went down the line, flicked over onto starboard and headed back towards the odm. with a minute to go (and not having called starboard or even gone remotley close to any port tackers) flicked over onto port about 50m from the odm and had a fantastic start!

 

We had a blast even though the wind didnt. Nice sailing upwind matching Young 11's and hotrodded 1050's!! After our great effort on the start we parked like everyone else but sadly watched as Crac-A-Jak and Mumbo Jumbo saile the wall of North Head into breeze. We jumped across to the rangi side of the channel and found a track upto rangi light. Still unsure as to how succesful this was. We came around rangi with 3 other 7's infront of us plus a few others from our small boat div. Did a few extra tacks to try and find our own breeze which payed. We gained height the whole time up to haystack nocking off a few of the trackers / reactors in the process.

 

Round Haystack we got the kite up and picked up even more boats including most of the cruising division. Unfortunately couldnt pass Revolution. Didnt even see him! Just another good farr boat I guess!

 

We got around the back of Motuhuie as we lost the light and headed up to a very dimly lit Issy bay red marker and then onto home. 2nd 727 on line - 3rd in the smallboat div (not tacking into account the cruising div) so we were very pleased!

 

Well done to everyone who stuck out there - especially the shorthaul guys...brutal! See you all race 2!

 

Overdraft out.

[Cameron 76]

WTF - were you actually out there?

 

It was a port tack reach from a heavily bias line. Starboard tack wasnt an option unless you enjoy sailing the wrong way!!

 

I personally wasn't out there at the start but have heard from a few people that most of the best starts came from the Wharf end. Apparently the advantage of being "uptide" more than countered any line bias. The other bonuses were less boats around and cleaner air.

[Guest]

WTF - were you actually out there?

 

It was a port tack reach from a heavily bias line. Starboard tack wasnt an option unless you enjoy sailing the wrong way!!

 

I personally wasn't out there at the start but have heard from a few people that most of the best starts came from the Wharf end. Apparently the advantage of being "uptide" more than countered any line bias. The other bonuses were less boats around and cleaner air.

 

This sounds very credible - I was there and the boat end was a sh*t-fight.

[Fish 0]

WTF - were you actually out there?

 

It was a port tack reach from a heavily bias line. Starboard tack wasnt an option unless you enjoy sailing the wrong way!!

 

I personally wasn't out there at the start but have heard from a few people that most of the best starts came from the Wharf end. Apparently the advantage of being "uptide" more than countered any line bias. The other bonuses were less boats around and cleaner air.

 

This sounds very credible - I was there and the boat end was a sh*t-fight.

We were at the wharf end - had one of my best starts ever up tide and clear air (what there was of it, so important for it to be clear)

And yes we started on port.

 

I think what Bull has failed to grasp is he actually started on port - but approached the line on starboard and gybed - either way you STILL STARTED ON PORT. Stop whinging, its all part of the race

[Guest]

WTF - were you actually out there?

 

It was a port tack reach from a heavily bias line. Starboard tack wasnt an option unless you enjoy sailing the wrong way!!

 

This sounds very credible - I was there and the boat end was a sh*t-fight.

We were at the wharf end - had one of my best starts ever up tide and clear air (what there was of it, so important for it to be clear)

And yes we started on port.

 

I think what Bull has failed to grasp is he actually started on port - but approached the line on starboard and gybed - either way you STILL STARTED ON PORT. Stop whinging, its all part of the race

 

No Fish I think we started all but flat off and gybed asap. The lodgic was that we had both rights going in and a slightly hotter angle to North Head for what it was worth.

 

It is not written in law that you have to start on starboard. I have been invloved in a lot of glamour port tack starts! (Most of the time I have been watching the bugger on port tack cross the fleet...) And given the wind direction - port was the way to go.

You miss the point OD there is a rule which says give way to the left! Or port/ Sbd and most were both oblivious and or unable to respond. Had there been 8knts of air it would have been an expensive issue. If people dont protest or tap em then you may as well not have the rules. To anyone who port tacks the fleet all ups, but if it goes bad it hurts.

[Guest Dry Reach]

[

We were at the wharf end - had one of my best starts ever up tide and clear air (what there was of it, so important for it to be clear)

And yes we started on port.

 

I think what Bull has failed to grasp is he actually started on port - but approached the line on starboard and gybed - either way you STILL STARTED ON PORT. Stop whinging, its all part of the race

 

No Fish I think we started all but flat off and gybed asap. The lodgic was that we had both rights going in and a slightly hotter angle to North Head for what it was worth.

 

It is not written in law that you have to start on starboard. I have been invloved in a lot of glamour port tack starts! (Most of the time I have been watching the bugger on port tack cross the fleet...) And given the wind direction - port was the way to go.

You miss the point OD there is a rule which says give way to the left! Or port/ Sbd and most were both oblivious and or unable to respond. Had there been 8knts of air it would have been an expensive issue. If people dont protest or tap em then you may as well not have the rules. To anyone who port tacks the fleet all ups, but if it goes bad it hurts.

 

So you're not a "hole in the Ass" as quoted above.

 

 

But left the arse's in the hole?

[Guest]

I miss the point??? Read it again buddy! Im not disputing the existance of rule 10 at all!!!

[Guest]

We started on the IDM on Port, mainly due to timing ... yes late again, we left AA's clock at home

 

We were a few boat lengths out and about to have to do a bail-out as the door suddenly slammed shut and then boats that had us by the knuts big time bailed off to gawd knows where leaving us in a very nice spot indeed. Thanks you guys

[Guest]

We started on the IDM on Port, mainly due to timing ... yes late again, we left AA's clock at home

 

We were a few boat lengths out and about to have to do a bail-out as the door suddenly slammed shut and then boats that had us by the knuts big time bailed off to gawd knows where leaving us in a very nice spot indeed. Thanks you guys

 

 

"I rest my case your Honour"

 

KM I dont know whether you were in our div or not but irrelivant, the point is, you shouldnt have been there on port. If anyone did that in any sort of reasonable competition you would have been protested out.

 

To even be there is just asking for trouble and it is just a matter of time until you cause damage.

 

In fact with the fleet sizes the line should be bigger and maybe the ability to have a short beat to make it safer, although I have had a gumby on port on a true windward start too.

[Clipper 343]

Bull, the line pretty much HAD to be crossed on port. yes, it is within your rights to 'start' on starboard, but to do that, when 2 handed, for the sake of being right seems unecessary. If everyone lined up to run down the line on starboard, the chaos would be the same. You may be right in a normal windard start, but in this case, it seems a lot of people disagree with you.

 

To say "you shouldn't have been there on port" is rediculous when the line had to be crossed on port.

 

To say "Shows a lack of experience on alot of parts and had much potential for damage. Basicly just dumb" is insulting to most of the fleet.

 

I was there, I started midway down the line on port. I was happy where I started, thuoght it safe, and i had clear air. we discussed a starboard approach and thought it had nothing to gain (and could have been wrong on that), and a lot to lose if we got in tangles with the boats starting 'normally' on port.

 

What would have changed if you had started where you wanted on the line on port? How would it have changed your start?

[Guest]

We started on the IDM on Port, mainly due to timing ... yes late again, we left AA's clock at home

 

We were a few boat lengths out and about to have to do a bail-out as the door suddenly slammed shut and then boats that had us by the knuts big time bailed off to gawd knows where leaving us in a very nice spot indeed. Thanks you guys

 

 

"I rest my case your Honour"

 

KM I dont know whether you were in our div or not but irrelivant, the point is, you shouldnt have been there on port. If anyone did that in any sort of reasonable competition you would have been protested out.

 

To even be there is just asking for trouble and it is just a matter of time until you cause damage.

 

In fact with the fleet sizes the line should be bigger and maybe the ability to have a short beat to make it safer, although I have had a gumby on port on a true windward start too.

 

Sportboats.

 

What on earth are you talking about? It was a clean start, once the door opened again and we were very well aware there were boats on stb and there was more than enough room to knot get in their way at any critical moment i.e. we had room to get out of Stb hand boats should the need arise.

 

It was a start that had us probably in the 1st 3 or 4 boats to Nth head i.e a goodie, especially for me Isn't getting to the front of the fleet the aim of yacht racing? If it is it would suggest our start was a goodie and yours was in a place you shouldn't have been. Good golly man what a bizarre post.

 

If the line was set different, if the weather was different, if the fleet was different, if the tide was different, if we had a different number of heart starters on the way to the line, if lots of things were different, it very well may have meant what we did was stupid but they weren't.

 

We don't go in to a start with the aim of having boat on boat contact, that's just silly and we do have a flash paintjob to look after you know

[Guest]

 

Sportboats.

 

What on earth are you talking about? It was a clean start, once the door opened again and we were very well aware there were boats on stb and there was more than enough room to knot get in their way at any critical moment i.e. we had room to get out of Stb hand boats should the need arise.

 

It was a start that had us probably in the 1st 3 or 4 boats to Nth head i.e a goodie, especially for me Isn't getting to the front of the fleet the aim of yacht racing? If it is it would suggest our start was a goodie and yours was in a place you shouldn't have been. Good golly man what a bizarre post.

 

If the line was set different, if the weather was different, if the fleet was different, if the tide was different, if we had a different number of heart starters on the way to the line, if lots of things were different, it very well may have meant what we did was stupid but they weren't.

 

We don't go in to a start with the aim of having boat on boat contact, that's just silly and we do have a flash paintjob to look after you know

 

 

Sorry I started this, its apears that my point is lost on you, never mind Ill just stay out of your way then, forget the rules, they are for other people.

[Fish 0]

 

Sportboats.

 

What on earth are you talking about? It was a clean start, once the door opened again and we were very well aware there were boats on stb and there was more than enough room to knot get in their way at any critical moment i.e. we had room to get out of Stb hand boats should the need arise.

 

It was a start that had us probably in the 1st 3 or 4 boats to Nth head i.e a goodie, especially for me Isn't getting to the front of the fleet the aim of yacht racing? If it is it would suggest our start was a goodie and yours was in a place you shouldn't have been. Good golly man what a bizarre post.

 

If the line was set different, if the weather was different, if the fleet was different, if the tide was different, if we had a different number of heart starters on the way to the line, if lots of things were different, it very well may have meant what we did was stupid but they weren't.

 

We don't go in to a start with the aim of having boat on boat contact, that's just silly and we do have a flash paintjob to look after you know

 

 

Sorry I started this, its apears that my point is lost on you, never mind Ill just stay out of your way then, forget the rules, they are for other people.

 

I think there is a good understanding of the rules - which is - If your on port your are required to give way.

There is NOT a rule which says you can't start on port

 

The flip side is, if you are on Starboard you are the "stand on" vessel and should not alter course until it is clear a collision is unavoidable - so technically Bull if you start on Starboard and then gybe in close proximity to port tack boats - you are breaking the rules.

 

But I think what you were trying to get at in the first place is, if a bunch of boats come in on port so they CAN'T keep clear, then yes they are arse's. That didn't happen on Saturday, although it has happened in past years. The key there is that if you come in on port, you must ensure you can keep clear. End of story.

[Guest]

Sorry I started this, its apears that my point is lost on you, never mind Ill just stay out of your way then, forget the rules, they are for other people.

 

Stop being a dick. I've started 1000's of races in a multitude of boats of a multitude of types in a multitude of weather in many countries. I am fully aware starting on Port is potentially a very dangerous move but I'm also aware there are no laws prohibiting it.

 

If I feel I can get away with a port tack start, which does include making sure I don't get nailed by any boats on Stb, I'll do it and be fully legal as I do, just as you, Peter, Paul or Mary would be also.

 

Saturday was, one of the very few I will admit, times I thought we could so we did and we did so without getting close or in the way of any boats on Stb. We were 2 seconds from bailing out 2 boat lengths back from the line due to congestion and the likely hood of being nailed but at that second a gap opened so we went for instead. We were fully aware we had zero rights. It was, in our opinion, the faster start. Being one of the 1st boats to hit then clear Nth Head we weren't far off in our estimation. Sadly after that things didn't go quite so good

 

Yes I'll fully agree there are bunnies who will start on port and turn the whole shebang into a huge clusterfuck. All we, and that includes you, can do is protest if required and/or later suggest to said bunny/s, over a beer, why we think what they did was brave verging on silly or in some case just totally stupid with a huge S.

 

Besides last Saturdays start was always going to be an interesting one due to the weather and number of boats so probably knot the best example to use.

 

We really do have to get together for a beer or 6 one day Bull. I think it would be quite a good chat and laugh. Also well worth the hangover we'd both go home with Maybe in Fiji next year after you sailed up on the 8mt boat Yes, just kidding, I heard it was more 9.3mts

[Guest]

Dont drink.

 

Point was in our division there were many parked on the line on port at the pin who had no intention of even looking under their sail for a sbd tacker.

 

Point was in a west/norwesterly there was always going to be sbd tackers arriving at the pin with the intention of gybing for clear air asap (yes not gybing in someones water)

 

Point was, I'm not talking about the 2 or three who sucessfully port tacked the fleet, but the 10-15 who didnt.

 

Point is lost on most here obviously

[Guest]

Point is not lost on me Bull.

 

I was there in shorthaul start and a similar shitfight ensued. Bloody dangerous starting on Port in a fleet of that size. That said we did it without infringing. But I still think its a recipie for disaster.

 

In terms of improving things - have considered the idea of a true line with a beat to windward, round a mark and head off into the gulf. But on balance think the beat would need to be too long to get adequate seperation in such a large fleet.

 

Best suggestion I have is to drop the wharf as part of the line and set a line using a pin end buoy square to the next corner on the course. Would also get rid of the congestion up by the breakwater when its pin biased - that doesnt go so well either when you can't re-round or get outside the pin/wharf if it all goes bad...anybody tried sailing around a wharf in a busy fleet? It doesn't work for some reason...

[Guest Dry Reach]

Point is not lost on me Bull.

 

I was there in shorthaul start and a similar shitfight ensued. Bloody dangerous starting on Port in a fleet of that size. That said we did it without infringing. But I still think its a recipie for disaster.

 

In terms of improving things - have considered the idea of a true line with a beat to windward, round a mark and head off into the gulf. But on balance think the beat would need to be too long to get adequate seperation in such a large fleet.

 

Best suggestion I have is to drop the wharf as part of the line and set a line using a pin end buoy square to the next corner on the course. Would also get rid of the congestion up by the breakwater when its pin biased - that doesnt go so well either when you can't re-round or get outside the pin/wharf if it all goes bad...anybody tried sailing around a wharf in a busy fleet? It doesn't work for some reason...

 

This guy sailed thru the wharf and with no "busy fleet issues"... and came out alright

 

 

 

bloody good skills... not!

 

this whole arguement is not about port or starboard tack starts but knowing your rights, not obstructing boats with right of way, and taking advantage of the startline (however you see it) without dissregard for other competitiors.

 

move on nothing to see here!

[Rental 1]

 

Best suggestion I have is to drop the wharf as part of the line and set a line using a pin end buoy square to the next corner on the course. Would also get rid of the congestion up by the breakwater when its pin biased - that doesnt go so well either when you can't re-round or get outside the pin/wharf if it all goes bad...anybody tried sailing around a wharf in a busy fleet? It doesn't work for some reason...

 

Half of me agrees with you, it would be nice to have a slighly truer line but that would take away some of the fun that is the SSANZ series. Call us chicken but we saw what was going to happen and nailed the start a 1/3 down the line in clear air going fast with no one around us and got a great start, there was no way that we were going to go anywhere near the boat end clusterf*ck.

 

To the Y11 that ran up the line calling everyone up and compressed everyone at the boat end nice work

[Guest]

this whole arguement is not about port or starboard tack starts but knowing your rights, not obstructing boats with right of way, and taking advantage of the startline (however you see it) without dissregard for other competitiors.!

 

Nicely said DR.

 

When do protests get heard?