TimW 1 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 So it appears compulsory after every light airs race that some 8.5 guys are going to moan about the length of the course and needing their own division Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 So it appears compulsory after every light airs race that some 8.5 guys are going to moan about the length of the course and needing their own division only if the course is so long (time wise) that they/we can't finish in the time limit. I understand Putiki Express just sneaked in under the time limit, yet scored 3rd on handicap. Thats a pretty rediculous situation. Tim, do you think it is reasonable to have all the multis doing the same length course? If not - got a solution? And no, sailing faster isn't a reaonsable answer. Link to post Share on other sites
wal 27 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 If I can chime in I suspect the lack of breeze threw the Club somewhat. Way below forecast, I never saw it coming and I'm not entirely stupid with weather. We did the first beat with a #2 on, which starts working from 7kts tws, cos it took me a long time to realize there was not going to be more than that and it appeared talking to others afterward I wasn't the only one. Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 So it appears compulsory after every light airs race that some 8.5 guys are going to moan about the length of the course and needing their own division The solution I can see would be have a seperate Multi 8.5 d ivision... we have the numbers... but that would impact more on you, TWU and Exodus etc than anyone else, so I suggest we look for a better solution. How about no cut off time, or maybe a %age of the 1st boat's time. All i know is if I had been knocked out like Akarana Express, that would be the last time I would be racing with RNZYS, or rather... last time I would be paying to race. I would be a pirate entry. It was a long enough race as it was, then to finish and not get recordedwould really piss me off If you guys want slower boats to join, you're gonna have to sort this. Lucky the guys on AE are not new to multi Sailing. Not only that, but for once I wasn't LAST... till the results came out....... Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 So it appears compulsory after every light airs race that some 8.5 guys are going to moan about the length of the course and needing their own division Not a well thought out argument Tim and only encourages the split. Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 .... so I suggest we look for a better solution. How about no cut off time, or maybe a %age of the 1st boat's time. The cut off time was extended from 30 to 60 mins due to VF. If she had been out a few more would not have finished. There is a problem here so lets find a solution. Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 If I can chime in I suspect the lack of breeze threw the Club somewhat. Agreed.... I have no issue with long races it's not being able to finish due to the time limit that could do with changing. It's something we, NZMHYC need to get amended in the rule book. Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I Agree that the two fleet thing would be awesome, but realistically we probably dont have enough boats. Looking at the results the handicaps seem to be working pretty well to average a race with that many variables in it with Charleston being so far ahead and the other multi's (Hyper and Putiki) still getting 2nd and 3rd on handicap which means that side is working ok. There are going to be days where the back runners are going to be left behind, just like there are days where they are very close to us and clean it out on handicap... Get used to it and welcome to fleet racing. In all honesty i think the time limit is fine. Do you really want to finish races after 5pm? When we read that course out we said oh thats a nice long one, Unfortunately the breeze did what it wasnt forecast to do and it dropped out. These things happen and if the breeze doing that means a few boats dont make the time limit, and that is enough to make you stop racing John then you are out there for the wrong reasons in my mind. It was a great day on the water, and no-one picked that would happen, and its not like this is happening every second week so i dont see the problem? Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 In all honesty i think the time limit is fine. Do you really want to finish races after 5pm? Yes I do if it means we get to finish... Saturday was a good example, I would have been disappointed if we had not finished on on Hyper we only just made it. If VF had been racing we would not have. Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 15. TIME LIMITS & TARGET TIMES15.1 Harbour Courses The time limit for the Harbour Courses expires for divisions A, B & M 3.5 hours from the time of the start for that Division. For all other divisions the time limit shall be 3 hours from the start of that division. Should any one boat in a division, except division M, finish within that time limit, the time limit for that division is extended by 30 minutes. The time limit for division M shall be extended for 60 minutes. Any boat not finishing within this extended time limit shall be scored Did Not Finish. This changes RRS 35 & RRS A4.1. Not its regardless of when the first boat finishes. Its 3.5 hours from the start time. From what I understand the first boat has to finish before 4.30 and if he does the time limit is bumped out to 5.30pm? But if he finishes at say 2pm the time stays at 4.30? Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Not its regardless of when the first boat finishes. Its 3.5 hours from the start time. From what I understand the first boat has to finish before 4.30 and if he does the time limit is bumped out to 5.30pm? But if he finishes at say 2pm the time stays at 4.30? Yes you are right, my mistake. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 The only issue I see was the course that was chosen given the conditions. Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 All good, i thought it was an hour too at first but when i read that i guess the time limit kind of makes sense, and you need to make the call at some point? We didnt get back to the mooring til 5 so it was late enough as it was. Guess you say that 99% of the fleet scraped in on time, one didnt but that was just unfortunate and to do with the conditions not playing ball. Same reason when it blows 30 knots some of us choose not to go and break the boats? Hard to blame squadron when uncle Huey doesnt play ball. Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Yeah so the Time Limit if the first boat finishes within 3.5 hours, is 4.5 hours from the start. So that is, Charleston finished in 2 hours, other boats have 4.5 hours. It is not the RNZYS fault that the wind conked out. There aren't enough boats for two divisions, and as you state the closest racing is in the bottom of the so called open, and the Top of the 8.5's. it always has been that way too. In the last 3 Winter series (or wednesday series) an 8.5 has won 2 out of 3 on line (Once Attitude, Once Deeds). And talking about being positive about a situation, who is resorting to I'll take my toys and go home? My understanding also is that Akarana Express never actually entered? Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 MM, I don't understand what you mean that I'm sailing for the wrong reason I'm sailing to win the series on handicap, and if I get knocked out of only one race, cos RNZYS made the course too long, and that mean't that I didn't win the series cos I was maybe two or three points too high because of the DNF, I have wasted my time and money. It's ok for the faster boats, cos it won't ever be an issue but for me it's a critical point. What's wrong with a %age rather than a fixed time. Double the time of the 1st boat (considering my handicap gives me twice as long as TVS) Link to post Share on other sites
Murky 1 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 'm sailing to win the series on handicap, and if I get knocked out of only one race, cos RNZYS made the course too long, and that mean't that I didn't win the series cos I was maybe two or three points too high because of the DNF, I have wasted my time and money. Think you've probably made Marshy's point for him, John. Everyone is out to win their series. Since only one boat in each fleet ever will, it pays to have a backup reason (or two) for being out there e.g. enjoyment of the day, teamwork, camaraderie, getting the best out of your boat. Link to post Share on other sites
wal 27 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Everyone is out to win their series. Have you asked the handicappers who's supposed to win? They're the ones in the loop Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Some comments, 1. Saturday's course was chosen having regard to the wind direction NNW and the forecast which suggested building breeze. 2.There was a spot of gentle persuastion to get the RO to shorten the course at Orakei as the windward leeward course maxed out at about 10 knots and it was clear that there was less wind up the ditch. 3 Pembles only just beat 888 to the orakei bouy! We couldn't help as we were doing the W/Ls. 4. Given the splits in the m division the race officers would love to separate the division into 2 sections. Whether or not that happens is up to the multihull sailors and not the RNZYS. 5. Stratocaster sailed a blinder in her division. Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Then if the time can't be altered, we should look at dividing the multis. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Firstly, why does TVS come into this discussion- they are not racing with us, they aren't entered and they aren't even in the country. Secondly, looking at the handicap results. Take out Timberwolf cos even he admits he had a bad day. Take out the first three to finish on line as they got away from the rest on the wind shift to the North around North head. The rest of the results are then very predictible based on light airs and tri v's cat. The top three are the trimarans and all the rest are the cats. Seems we should ban tri's in light airs as they have an unfair advantage --- just joking... Link to post Share on other sites
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