Running costs contributions from Crew

[tennisraindelay 1]

What should crew pay? Is there a generally accepted standard for what crew should stump up to help the boat owners battered bank account?

I hear widely varying differences, from crew contributing zero, and at the other end of the scale I hear of crew paying thousands per series for a spot on the top boats.

I guess for a one off race/cruise an individual is expected to bring not much more than something to drink (& inc skipper) and snacks, but the rules are surely different for a permanent crew member and on destination races where diesel bills etc. escalate.

Do some skippers take maintenance time contributions from crew in lieu of cash? Or a mix of the two?

A family member used to charge overnighting crew on a destination race like a hotel – because it’s a night away from home, say like $50.

I think booze & food is a no brainer – contribute at least an equal amount as everyone else for the trip. Expect to drink only as much booze as you bought with you (make sure the skipper doesn’t run out of rum)

Thanks in advance for any insights!

[Bimini Babe 0]

Was just talking about this while racing last night funnily enough. I think it's wholly unacceptable for owners to charge crew for the pleasure of crewing on their vessel. Boat ownership is a choice made by the owner, as is the decision to race. Crew should make no contribution whatsoever beyond perhaps food/fuel contributions on longer trips.

[Megwyn 2]

I concur with BB.

 

Without your crew, can you race?

If they are willing to come out and crew for you, and not charge you for their time, then why would you want to charge them for the pleasure of working on your boat?

[Bimini Babe 0]

Egg zachary. Actually one of my crew last night suggested that perhaps any crew who do pay to be on board need to exert their right to take part of the boat with them when they leave! "Oh, so I have to pay $10 a week for new sails do I? Well I think the clew on that new genoa belongs to me then!"

[B00B00 310]

I agree bb.

In fact I think the oposite, a good crew should be paid.

Everywhere else in the world an owner pays good money to keep a good crew, he enjoys it more and gets results.

Obviously skill level has a lot to do with it and a learner can not expect to get paid and in some cases will help contribute to costs but I know any good sailor would/should either get a free ride or paid.

Even when we had the jagged edge for bay week, we didn't pay anyone but paid all expenses including accomodation for everyone as I wanted the crew that I had and any one of them could have got an all expenses paid regatta on another boat. End result we won the regatta and had a good time- that's what it costs. I don't have much money but that investment was well worth it for the regatta we had.

Maybe people are happy to not do as well but split their costs but thats their choice.

So I think its an owners choice if they request a contribution but the problem there is that the good crew will go to another boat and the gap will get wider between the well sailed and poorly sailed boats. The gap is already wide enough.

I can tell you that in any of the big races overseas any half decent crew will be taking home money.

[tennisraindelay 1]

Fair point, you shouldn’t enter the world of boat ownership, factoring in crew revenue to the budget (if there is one!)

But it can’t be all one way traffic? It seems to me the scales are tipped in favour of crewing over ownership – they get all the enjoyment of sailing and benefit of experience & none of the downsides (I’m not a boat owner by the way). I’ve met quite a few boat owners who family & land based friends never go out so it’s all to the benefit of him/herself & the crew.

So the yarns about crew paying 000's for a series is a myth?

Does anyones crew put in a weekend on the hard sanding etc?

[Bimini Babe 0]

No way does crewing come anywhere close to boat ownership in terms of benefits. Can a crew take the owner's boat out anytime when and where they want? Can a crew choose any position on the boat, including helm or simply just lounging around on deck, if they want? Can a crew really, truly learn how to sail, by making mistakes (because that's in essence what it takes to learn), without fear of reprisal, if it isn't their boat?

 

Sure, perpetual crewing works for some people, and good on 'em. Personally, I couldn't wait to move up from mere crew-member to boat-owner. It's been a long, hard, expensive and often intensely frustrating, at times depressing road, but I wouldn't change it for the world.

[PaulR 3]

Once upon a time . . . . all good stories start this way . . .

 

On the J classes, crew were paid threepence a race and a shilling if you won. Most of the fleet were similar.

 

Aye, those were the days.

 

Now there is PAYE, ACC levies, Court fines, child maintenance deductions, kiwi saver deductions and they now want 40% of gross for rent and 18% savings. I'ts just knot fair

[tennisraindelay 1]

Haha child maintenance & family lawyer fees!

no doubt that in terms of learning, the only way to become a proper skipper is either a lot of chartering or boat ownership. You’ve got to make the big calls & live with the outcome/fallout.

I'm currently in the university of life sailing school i.e crewing, with a view to boat ownership in a couple of years. I guess i’ll be my turn to repay the favour when I take on crew. A bottle of Appletons here or there wouldn’t go astray

[Guest]

Just curious - if you are being paid, are you then an employee or a contractor, should you declare that income and pay tax, can you claim operating exppenses. More interesting, who pays if there is an accident, who covers medical insurance if you leave NZ, is the owner subjec tto the same laws covering crew on commercial vessels, lots of fun questions here.

[Megwyn 2]

I'm currently in the university of life sailing school i.e crewing, with a view to boat ownership in a couple of years.

 

Saving up for your own boat, and spending hard earned cash on paying a skipper for the privilege for working on his boat? Hmmm

Me thinks you will get your own boat quicker if you save it all . . .

[NevP 0]

I should probably keep these thoughts to myself but I'm always amazed at the generosity of boat owners.

 

If I was the sensitive type I could almost be offended by this attitude towards crew. We're not just there for your benefit, we're out there enjoying the sailing right along side you. Sure we only get a fraction of the benefits of boat ownership but a nominal contribution is only a fraction of what it must cost you as owners.

 

On the boats I sail (race) on, as crew I consider myself part of a team and as such we all contribute to making the boat/team perform. The owners/skippers always have the final call but we all have input. As part of that we pay a nominal amount into a crew fund each time we sail competitively. That fund usually goes towards making the boat perform. We'll get that new sail a little sooner or get an extra quick-slip & bum scrub to keep things slick, etc.

 

I don't view it as paying the owner for the privilege I just see it as paying a contribution towards the costs for the day. Happy to pay my bit but I'd jump ship if I thought they were taking the p***.

 

OK, I should probably shut-up now before I get lynched by all the crew out there who's skippers/owners are happy pay for their recreation.

 

TRD, the owner charging hotel rates for sleeping on-board sounds a bit off tho.

[PaulR 3]

In the 2 handed races, I've often shared the entry costs and therefore equally shared the prizes, and reckon I'm up or at worst even. No rum left but SIMRAD ATL SSANZ T shirts etc are still being worn after several years with knowledge of that achievement and the expectation of new T shirts soon

[PaulR 3]

Another though. The boat owner needs reliable and dependable crew. It's a partnership and team effort, whether for just a single day or many months.

 

In some respects the professional crews on charter boats and the major ocean races (Volvo etc) are spoiling or confusing the situation for all of us. Perhaps there needs to be a swing of the pendulum back towards what a true amature really is, especially for Olympic games.

 

Granted the full time training athlete needs help or sponsorship for living costs etc, but will Adidas get a gold medal if their support has helped the person win

 

Watching the Volvo videos and seeing the amount of water spray hitting the cockpit continously makes me wonder what pay rate is needed to wear a hot sweaty drysuit for so long, day in day out.

[Bimini Babe 0]

Watching the Volvo videos and seeing the amount of water spray hitting the cockpit continously makes me wonder what pay rate is needed to wear a hot sweaty drysuit for so long, day in day out.

I'd do it for nothing. But probably only for one leg!

[Megwyn 2]

Watching the Volvo videos and seeing the amount of water spray hitting the cockpit continously makes me wonder what pay rate is needed to wear a hot sweaty drysuit for so long, day in day out.

 

Well, it is just as body punishing as boxing - and yet sooo much more drawn out. There has to be some recompense for 20 days without a hot shower, and only freeze dried food!

 

LOL - so in all truth, probably not enough.

I guess the real payout is what they learn about themselves, and the strong connections they make with fellow crew members.

 

LOL BB - One leg would be enough all right lol. This ol' body wouldn't take much more without requiring large doses of strong painkillers

 

I am always happy to pay my way - contribute to food etc. I think most people would be. Every time you go out you learn something. But I baulk at someone subsidising their experience with my contribution. That just leaves a nasty taste in my mouth that no amount of Rum can get rid of.

[tennisraindelay 1]

Watching the Volvo videos and seeing the amount of water spray hitting the cockpit continously makes me wonder what pay rate is needed to wear a hot sweaty drysuit for so long, day in day out.

 

You too can experience the VOR, sweating your (insert relevant body part)s off in a dry suit for 6 months by joining the Clipper round the world race. Payment? Crew pay £40,000! ouch

[PaulR 3]

Originally I paid GBP400 per leg,

first leg was 42 days without seeing land, but we did have showers in the rain through the doldrums.

 

Now I reckon I should be paid that per day!!

[NevP 0]

I am always happy to pay my way - contribute to food etc. I think most people would be. Every time you go out you learn something. But I baulk at someone subsidising their experience with my contribution.

I think we're pretty much on the same page on this. Just depends on your perspective. Could also be seen as the boat owner subsidising the crew's experience and I don't like being a free loader. All depends on the circumstances really and comes down to each owner/crew deciding where the line lies.

 

As for the Volvo crews. A few hours would be a blast but days on end? Maybe not so much.

 

I wonder if the pay is more a compensation/bribe to the partners/familys of the crew. Dunno about the rest of you but I wouldn't expect the reception to be too warm if I went home and told the better half I was chucking my job for the next 12-18 mths or more to go sailing (without her).

[B00B00 310]

Yes i would say a lot of crew help with boat maintenance. Before any regatta you will often see boats up on the hard getting a wetsand. I think this type of thing is essential for team bonding and also the mindgame of knowing that you have done everything possible to win. I always like to get involved.

Its also not uncommon for owners to have working bees on the boat and in most cases a good turnout is had as everyone wants the boat to be in good condition so they dont get let down on the race course.

I always like to get people to look after their respective areas and keep them maintained or at least know what item is going to be the next to be replaced, simple things like checking split pins, shackles, rope chafe, tight bolts... can all be difference between winning and loosing, major gear breakage or even injury. If you keep them involved then they become part of it and the boat always is well prepared and maintained.

You will find a good team has a really good idea of every part of the boat and what is letting you don on the race track. But unfortunately you will struggle to find a good team of guys like this that will pay to go racing.

 

Remember too, its the owners name on the trophy or results page, not the crews. Also remember that on a racing boat, results and race history add value. a racing boat without results is not worth much.