Smart charger not as smart as I thought.

[rossd 16]

I have had my batteries in the garage for 18 months (probably more if truth be known) I have had them on the 3 stage smart charger every now and then for day or week whatever so I thought I was doing the right thing. Then I decided it might be good to give the Ultra 125amphr deep cycle some work so hooked up a 100 watt spotlight. IT WENT OUT AFTER 20 MINUTES. This freaked me out as I paid $350 for this battery 5 years ago. Out with hydrometer, flat ass, even though charger been going to float. Dug out the old fashion charger and after 3 days managed to get it into a proper charged state. I figure 100 watt is 8 amp so I have had the light on for 3 hours no problem and charged again. Might do it a couple more times for 3 or 4 hours which would take 25% of battery capacity. So my advice, don't trust a smart charger when batteries in storage.

[Clipper 343]

brand?

[Guest]

Go to Repco and buy a 7 stage charger. the Swedish designed brand, (can't remember brand name CTek I think)

 

They are not cheap, about 3 hundy, but they are amazing. They do everything.

 

You will not be dissapointed.

[rossd 16]

Clipper, its a Power Saver, Switch Mode Multicharger 15 amp

Model BC-012-15AP. Paid quite a bit for it at Burnsco and has been good on the boat when berthed.

[wheels 543]

[/quotThen I decided it might be good to give the Ultra 125amphr deep cycle some work so hooked up a 100 watt spotlight. IT WENT OUT AFTER 20 MINUTES. This freaked me out as I paid $350 for this battery 5 years ago. Out with hydrometer, flat ass, even though charger been going to float.e]

You could have two possible causes for that happening. The first and most likely One is called Stratification. The Acid being denser than water, settles out to the bottom of the battery and the Water sits at the top. This requires a Charge called Equalisation Charging. It should be done at least once a month. You do need a charger that can do that of course.

The other possible is called Surface Charge. The Plate has lost it's charge deep in the plates. The Voltage is high enough to tell the Charger to remain in float, but there is not real substance of charge in the plates. Normally that kind of thing does not happen, because we use the batteries enough to ensure they get a cycle.But for a Battery that has just sat doing nothing, that kind of issue can happen. For backup battery banks where they don't get cycled often, just remain in a possible backup situation, they use a charger that once every so many weeks, stops charging and actually starts to discharge the battery to a level and then goes back to charging again.

CTek chargers I have never been a Fan of. They probably work OK, but any manufacturer that advertises things like 5 or 7 stage charger, in my opinion, full of crap and trying to baffle the Audience with BS. The other point is that they try advertising their chargers power in mA. Like 2000mA. For the un electrically educated, that looks an awesome number, but it is just 2A and 2A won't do didly squat for any Deep cycle Battery. Even 10A is hardly enough. A decent current to bulk charge a battery also stirs the Electrolyte up and gets a good solid depth of charge into it.

rossd, the best thing in your situation is to put a load on the battery once a month, take the charge down a bit and then charge the battery again to ensure it is getting a cycle and a stir up.

[Guest]

Got a 4 amp jobbie and love it.

http://www.ctek.com/au/en/chargers/MXS%203.8

 

The local auto electrician put me on to it.

 

Award winning and very smart. Read the specs.

[rossd 16]

Thanks for that wheels. Something strange was happening as battery was reading about 13.5v but with hydrometer, "no balls float".

Not keen on buying another charger.

Found this on the Trojan site and probably a burst with a normal charger would do the same?

Step-By-Step Equalizing

1.Verify the battery(s) are flooded type.

2.Remove all loads from the batteries.

3.Connect battery charger.

4.Set charger for the equalizing voltage (See Table 2 in the Charging section). If your charger doesn’t have an equalization mode, you can unplug the charger and re-plug it back in. This also will conduct the equalization charge.

5.Start charging batteries.

6.Batteries will begin gassing and bubbling vigorously.

7.Take specific gravity readings every hour.

8.Equalization is complete when specific gravity values no longer rise during the gassing stage

[rossd 16]

Sailorx 4 amp is small when I brought mine I studied up on it and figured a 125 amp hour battery should have around 15 amp

[Guest]

Sailorx 4 amp is small when I brought mine I studied up on it and figured a 125 amp hour battery should have around 15 amp

 

Oops yes. Got my wires crossed ' for what I run 4 amps is good.

[idlerboat 116]

I have found that battery and battery charger claims (and counter claims) are a bit like the stuff you here about a boats cruising speed........

Sure its possible, but usually very much the exception.

There is simply so many factors that affect both things.

Wheels has summarised that.

Multiple charging systems like mine , each with their own regulators make it even more "interesting"

(Solar, wind, and mains)

I run all AGMs except the engine start battery.

(I highly recommend them by the way...having cracked the case of my anchor winch battery, a flooded battery would have been a disaster.)

I am a live aboard so they get a major work out.

In theory you could get up to 10 years, but I am happy with anything over 5.

A flooded battery perhaps 3 years.

For a boat well used I would suggest 20 amps is the least you need in a charger.

I run a Xantrex 20 amp version.

I am not a great fan of massive amp output chargers or for that matter huge amp output alternators.

The cost benefit is little.

Perhaps the greatest device is a battery monitor.

One that displays numbers.

Now before the whole debate about accuracy starts.....

I dont care !

Even the cheap Chinese $35 dollar versions show enough to make your inputs and outputs REAL.

I have a MKOVE MK70, Oz designed and made unit.

Over discharging your battery is the best way to shorten its life.

To put this in real world perspective, I have replaced two batteries in now 5 years.

The cracked case as above and another.

One was the "truck" battery on the engine, the other the cracked case.

I still have three in the system that I bought as ex- telco back up batteries.

On a charge/disscharge rated test, they are now not so good. But they got me cruising.

_______________________________________________

In summary, I for both cost and safety dont recommend wet batteries. (You cant use them for racing either)

By virtue of what wheels has said, a battery that sits in a shed for an extended period of time (unless connected to a charger costing many times the battery), will lose its charge capabilities.

Unless you have a monitor, you may well have pulled the battery below its "happy" charge state. (you dont sit in a car with the stereo running for hours on end and expect the motor to start...unfortunately marine rescue finds this a common problem on boats)

 

Sorry edit and disclosure, I am a member of a marine rescue organisation and one of the standard operating procedures is to put in the jump start pak before the boat hits the water )

[wheels 543]

If your charger doesn’t have an equalization mode, you can unplug the charger and re-plug it back in. This also will conduct the equalization charge.

Not really sure how that would work. It is possible it may slip back into a Bulk charge mode. Most 3 stage chargers will start up in standard Bulk charge mode as they do a quick test of Current/Voltage and then slip into what ever mode the Battery standing Voltage Battery is at. In some cases (but not all) the Bulk charge may be enough to "break" the surface charge and allow the Charger to stay in Bulk charge mode. The Bulk charging then stirs up the electrolyte, but only is the Charger can provide a good current and that is why a charger with decent output is important. The target is around 20% of Battery size, or 20A of charge current for every 100Ahrs of battery. You can put in higher than that, but the 20% is a good rule of thumb and a good current to ensure the best from your Batteries.

Equalisation Charging is a much higher Voltage than any charger that does not have that mode, can provide. It can be up to 17V's, but it limits the Current. This causes Gassing of the battery (not to be confused with overcharge boiling) and that gassing stirs up the electrolyte. Bulk charging also causes gassing in a different way, but also stirs up the electrolyte.

The main issue that determines the life span of a Battery is the gap between the bottom of the Plates and the base of the Casing. As the battery ages, Lead Phosphate will slowly drop from the plates and settle to the bottom. The speed of this varies from design to design, but once that gunk reaches the Plates, it will short out Cells and cause them to fail.

[rossd 16]

Idlerboat: If my wet batteries only lasted three years I would be pretty grumpy.

Wheels: So what is the difference between "gassing freely" and "overcharge boiling".

If either of these batteries look like failing they might get a dose of "Recharge" or I see Jaycar have some Inox stuff.

Have never had a battery monitor but might look at that.

[wheels 543]

The actual process is similar, but the Gas is produced for two different reasons. Boiling is just that, the Electrolyte has become far too hot and is releasing Gas due to heat of the Electrolyte. As an Acid is heated, any reaction increases, so the Gas is produced in relation to the activity.

Gassing is different in that it is the voltage that is creating the activity releasing the gas, rather than heat. Heat is very bad and will cause the battery to lose it's electrolyte and wreck the plates.

Although Equalisation will cause loss of Electrolyte also and levels need to be monitored and maintained. Dry plates will sulphate quickly and cause major damage to them. An no, there is no ability of any Charger to ever remove sulphation from plates once it has formed, even though many of these "flashy" smart chargers with 5 to 7 steps say they can. The process is called Pulse charging and uses a pulse of high current and voltage to "shock" sulphation off plate surfaces. But the Sulphation is what the crud is that settles to the bottom of the Battery and can lead to cell shorts. Very early simple soft Sulphation can be reversed back into the original materials, but that is not a Sulphation that causes damage anyway.

[waikiore 400]

Running one lead-acid on my boat to power everything including Waeco fridge, and only an outboard to recharge at sea (5 amps) when on a marina I always plug in the Ctek and has worked for six years but it is a larger model not the 3 amp, I do the reco cycle once a year. Working so far....However next year will invest in a solar panel to help keep up whilst cruising in the bay (wired through an MPPT system)