ballystick 66 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I am considering replacing my fin keel with a bulb keel on my Young 1034, anyone got good ideas on how to attach it to the hull and strut design? There must be several 930 owners who have done it, I think my boat doesn't require hull reinforcing as I want to use the existing keel mounting holes/bracing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TimB 7 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Hi, On Redline (Ross 930) we had the flat outside plate with bolts for the original keel and for the new one I was not happy with the idea of hanging 900kg of lead off a 2.4m long fin with a flat plate to not much inside. So There is a stub that sticks up inside about 150mm and we poured epoxy resin around it between some new solid timber floors. I convinced Stu to go this way and it is solid!! think about holding a broom handle horizontal by somehow clinging to the very last 5mm compared to a whole fist full. Stu might chime in with more but he is in Russia at the moment. First photo is original Second is the new floors laid out Third is finished job Fourth is the bulb fitted to the alloy steel fin in the workshop Fifth is my drawing of the concept. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TimB 7 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I hate the way photos spill all over the screen so you have to scroll sideways and down to see it, it sucks. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ballystick 66 Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 This method looks good as far as transferring the load more to the hull structure, thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TimB 7 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Hi KM..m, I don't know. Probably not because she was and is outboard powered in the well. Might have been a water tank perhaps? I didn't have much to do with her BKM (before keel mod). Note that the new fin is made of high strength steel (bisplate 80) .... not mild steel. Tb Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,174 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I hate the way photos spill all over the screen so you have to scroll sideways and down to see it, it sucks. TimB, that depends on the size of the pic, and the resolution of the screen you are using to see it. Your pics fit fine on my screen, at 1366x768, usinf Chrome. What screen resolution and which browser are you using that gives you issues? Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TimB 7 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Matt, 1366x768 and IE 11 I have only had this since the new format of crew.org was implemented Tb Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TimB 7 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Your are correct KM...m. For Redline we added those massive timber floors to spread the loads out and along the hull AND strengthened the chain plates and tied them down into the keel area. Very important because we increased the righting moment significantly. Tb Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,174 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 You guys want to send me a screen shot of the display problem? Works fine for me on Chrome, but I can pass on any issues to Karl... Thx Oh, and on this Keel issue. IMO the standard mounts are only safe for the standard keel, unless a real naval architect tells you otherwise. As mentioned above, a deeper and/or heavier keel puts more stress on EVERYTHING not just the Keel mounts - as it increases the righting moment, and makes the boat more powerful. After all, that is the point of the new keel, right? The boats whole structure needs to be considered.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ballystick 66 Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 I was looking at not increasing the righting moment to reduce structural changes that may have been required, thinking that the ballast would be less to give lower overall displacement and the foil profile change would improve all around sailing performance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Matt - its a firefox vs chrome issue. Chrome automatically resizes the image to suite the site width but firefox does not. There's probably a default setting to change. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ballystick 66 Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Thanks KM, I have been talking to a marine foil specialist and he thinks the same. I am organising an inspection for him to assess the shape etc. Looking more likely after seeing what's involved with a keel upgrade. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ballystick 66 Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 There are so many variables, alright, I thought with the number of 930's that have had keel mods, the different designs etc. may have brought out some good ideas. Apparently some 930's with standard keels still outperform the "upgraded" ones, so it is hard to decipher what the answer is, some original 930 keels aren't too bad though making for variations in comparisons. A 1034 keel is a basic fin keel and around 26 yrs old. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ptown 9 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I did the keel of The Entertainer recently and it made a huge difference (given my sailing hasn't really improved). Do not underestimate what it will cost. I didn't cut corners (I didn't do any of the work myself) and put in completely new floors which tie into a partial ring frame which has also made it possible to carry alot more rig tension. I just used a top plate (recessed flush with the hull) on the can bolted through to big washers in the floors and there is absolutely no movement. Mike Rees (Rees Castings) helped heaps and did a great job on the bulb and can, talk to Mike if you want a straight-up opinion. PM me if you want pics, drawings and idea on costs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ballystick 66 Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 Ptown, I think your inbox is full as I can't send you a PM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ballystick 66 Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 Keel photos that show current keel design and profile. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PeteG 13 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Ballystick, really interested in your photo of the keel. It looks an identical fin to our Young 99 except ours has 1140kg hanging on the bottom. If I can figure the technology will try and put a picture up for you soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PeteG 13 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Our keel on Young 99 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ballystick 66 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Thanks Pete, the keel looks to be similar but with an added bulb to the existing keel. So there are no problems or any mods with this extra force of this bulb on the keel/hull structure? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PeteG 13 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Our keel and bulb is the original (except it has had the original winglets removed). Looking at photos of other 1034's on the web (Flying Colours and Oliver Sudden) - both have small bulbs. Are you sure yours has not fallen off!! Good luck with whatever mods you end up doing - they are certainly fun boats to sail aren't they? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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