Emergency steering - what works??

[col j 0]

hope that wheel pivot has a locking device. imagine trying to steer out of a skid and gybing the wheel instead. woops. sudden panic and you start turning the other way and it just gets worse.

[TimB 7]

oh yes, a spring loaded pin with a string loop on it.

[col j 0]

anyone tried dragging a spinnaker pole in the water for steering? have one end on a short bridle off the back and trim the distant end with sheets to the kite blocks?

 

just a thought. no idea if it works or not.

[Guest]

Cruisers with money, outfitting a yacht ,should consider installing a vane gear that is touted to work as an emegency rudder.Both Sailomat and Hydrovane claim this.And neither of them have to be installed on centre if there is something else there.Monitor sell an emergency rudder.

[Guest]

I sweep (steer) dragonboats each summer, and to call it steering is a bit of an overstatement.

When a gust of wind hits if you don't catch it early and stop it from turning, it is very difficult to keep in a lane. If you lose it completely, the only way to get it going in the correct direction is to stop.

If you look at the oar while fighting a gust ( not advisable), it will be bent probably 400 mm out of straight.

Try doing that with a dinghy oar which is the same construction but shorter and a bit thinner.

So, thinking you can steer a yacht by this method in my opinion is pure daydreams. The only thing that may help you is that a yacht rotates on it's keel, while a dragonboat wants to go in straight lines so is hard to deviate from it's path.

Standing on the gunnel has more effect in strong winds.

Being higher above the water makes it harder for the paddlers on the inside of the turn you are trying to make, so the outside paddlers drive it around.

In more experienced crews, I think the front few paddlers are looking and do some steering as well.

[cam 0]

A cable swage failed on my rudder control lines on my foiling trimaran a few years ago. I steered by facing astern, lying face down, almost prone, gripping the trailing edge of the rudder for all I was worth (my immediate motivation was avoiding the cliffs on the lee shore 100m away; the hard looking ones below the titahi bay radio masts at plimmerton). This worked but not recomended as also requires gripping to the boat via the cockpit edge by my ankles. This particular boat is hard to slow down/control from this position. And would take off at 20+knots when I veered slightly off from hard on the wind almost flicking me out of the boat as it took off over the waves. This unusal sailing position got me home tho, feeling fairly dizzy (with a wrenched neck and spine). Must have looked amusing to any casual observer. 'look at where that bloke sits to sail his boat, must be plugged in, backwards, by the ankles'

 

Have never experenced a loss of steering on bigger boats sailing offshore tho (and hope I never do of course).

 

Did wonder tho if the rudder is still there it might be possible to get a g-camp on the trailing edge and rig up some control lines to p/s. Possibly going through a snatch block on the toe rail to provide a useful angle.

 

On stern hung rudders this will often be quite accessible. Bottom hung rudders might be more tricky, without risking a crewman in the water. Not likely to be doable in the conditions that tend to break rudders.

 

On bottom hung rudders, it might be possible to get a grip on the trailing edge of the rudder using blocks of some kind (bit of 100*50 or similar) threaded on a line and tied off with stopper knots. One from each side 'might' get you some control.

 

Something like this 'might' also help get a rudder free'ed up that is jammed hard over as in JT's recent case.

[Guest]

Yeah they are supposed to hence the inspectors do insist on seeing it demonstrated. One boat I sailed on, Jaffa,

 

Timb

 

Spoke to Terry, the owner of Jaffa, the other day. Apparently she's for sale. 300k oz will pick it up.

What did you think of the boat Tim? Besides the nifty steering wheel, had one on my boat and got rid of it. From what I gather she's not as quick as expected.

[ab1974 1]

We lost the rudder on a MaxFun 35 in the middle of the English Channel during a race to France a few years back. MaxFun is a big wet 'sports' boat. We were carrying the big asym doing 20 knots when we had a very unexpected massive round up. No steering and a rudder blade floating away behind us. Fortunately I has just put the owner back on the helm so couldn't have been my fault....

 

We rigged an emergency rudder using the spinnaker pole and floor board technique. It worked for us, but was far from ideal. It really worked as an aid to going in the vague direction we wanted, with the boat having to really be 'sailed' / balanced rather than steered - good practice, just like the old days learning to sail a dinghy!

 

The way we rigged the emergency rudder took a number of goes to get something that was useful. We strapped the floor board to the outboard end of the pole. The board had a hole at the top and bottom side - a rope was led from top hole to the starboard winch and bottom hole to port winch (via the aft mooring cleats) and both sides were winched tight to stop the board rolling onto its side. When we wanted to turn it was a team effort to ease one winch and take up the tension on the other. The inboard end was also strapped up to the backstay to help keen the outboard end down in the water.

 

We sailed all the way back to Brighton (about 40 miles - took 12 hours) and got a tow in with the coastguard to a mooring. Two of us caught the train back to Southampton and sailed back on a Jeanneau 37 to meet the Maxfun as they sailed, still with emergency rudder, back toward the Solent. We met them outside the Eastern entrance to the Solent and took them under tow. Adventure over - not quite. We left the marina on the Jeanneau at about midnight and met the Maxfun on just before dawn and then motored back. The owner was 50/50 on whether we had enough fuel - we had motored longer then expected. Sure enough it died heading back up Southampton water. We ended up towing them under sail, tacking back up Southampton water on an outgoing tide, having to yell each time we were going to tack so the Maxfun could adjust the rudder. Managed to sail them onto the fuel berth and then tie up ourselves. I was buggered.

 

So the emergency rudder did work, but we were in moderate seas prob 1.5-2m and about 15-20 knots of breeze. Would have been a real struggle in much more or if we were 400 odd nm from land.

 

The Maxfun (Hooligan V) lost its keel the following year and capsized losing one crew - RIP.

[Guest]

Standing on the gunnel has more effect in strong winds.

Being higher above the water makes it harder for the paddlers on the inside of the turn you are trying to make, so the outside paddlers drive it around.

In more experienced crews, I think the front few paddlers are looking and do some steering as well.

 

I think the phenomenon you are talking about could have more to do with hull shape than the paddlers being higher up...

We use this technique of heeling the boat in dinghys, especially in light air as it reduces rudder movement, thereby reducing drag. We even teach it to kids and have them sailing around without rudders which is quite fun.

 

Perhaps if you can steer a dragon boat like this, you would go faster without the steering stick as you would have less drag through the water?

[shanson 0]

 

Did wonder tho if the rudder is still there it might be possible to get a g-camp on the trailing edge and rig up some control lines to p/s. Possibly going through a snatch block on the toe rail to provide a useful angle.

 

On stern hung rudders this will often be quite accessible. Bottom hung rudders might be more tricky, without risking a crewman in the water. Not likely to be doable in the conditions that tend to break rudders.

 

On bottom hung rudders, it might be possible to get a grip on the trailing edge of the rudder using blocks of some kind (bit of 100*50 or similar) threaded on a line and tied off with stopper knots. One from each side 'might' get you some control.

 

Something like this 'might' help get a rudder free'ed up that is jammed hard over as in JT's recent case.

 

I have read about offshore boats with a groove cut in the training edge of the rudder, so that in the case of a tiller failure you drop a rope with two knots in it (either side of the rudder) and run them to winches to steer.

 

What about using wind gear? couldn't that help with considerably reduce sail area?

 

SHANE

[cam 0]

I have not heard of that one myself Shane, I like it... a notch cut in the trailing edge sounds like a very useful and practical idea actually. Would help with loss of steering cables/tiller scenario. And very easy to do at little cost. I was wondering how much stran the trailing edge would take on some rudders, but at least it buys some time to come up with alternatives (or find calmer conditions to implement some) that take more strain.

 

Just have to overcome the natural resistance to cut a notch in a perfectly good rudder,

Although once you are into a more defensive mode of thinking it is probably not hard when you consider the alternatives.

[Guest]

Perhaps if it was jammed hard over (and you were about to abandon ship) you could get a danforth over the transom, rope to both sides and take it forward to pull the rudder blade across, worth a crack.

[cam 0]

Yeah a danforth would be a useful shape to get a grip on the trailing edge I reckon.....

 

This approach in general also let's you identify the stupid thing is jammed hard over. otherwise I am not sure how you would realise that (without someone going over to look). It would be critical to know about asap as obviously it is going to stuff up all your efforts to self steer by other means.

 

I wonder if this is a common problem? have not heard of it before myself. Once a boat is drifting in rough conditions tho, I expect a backwards surge could force a rudder beyond it's usual arc and jam it (on the hull or perhaps just on the stock)

 

I've always thought a tiny acrylic window (50mm) epoxied into the hull above both foils would be useful for several reasons. Mostly to see if you have picked up some weed or if something is fouling the prop etc... but also useful in this case. I have heard of this on A/C boats, not sure how common it is otherwise.

[wheels 543]

It is very important to realise that there are as many possible scenarios of damage as there are boat designs. And thus, there are as many differing ways to approach a repair. Not all efforts of emergency steering are going to be able to be used across the board of every mergency situation. Then add into the mix, the sea state and the Wind. On top of that, add in state of the crew. Sea Sickness and anxiety can be very dibiltating in both physical and mental ability.

Just try getting an anchor under the boat and to a Rudder in even calm conditions doing just 3kts. Even a line on it's own is difficult and in some Boats, impossible.

My boat had a square at the top of the Rudder Stock shaft and is for an emergency hand tiller. The Rudder is 7ft deep, 4ft across and a Foil shape. I would like to see the lad that is going to steer that with a Tiller arm.

If that rudder was jammed hard over and I could trail something in the ater to counteract it, then I won't be going anywhere. It would be the huge brake underwater.

However, these flat bottom hulls are a nightmare. As I said in another thread (I think) they are impossible to steer. Go to the local Town Gardens large Pond and drop a block of cork on the water. Watch the breeze take it across the pond. Now take it back to the beginning and tie a line to one corner. It will turn to a slight angle and scoot along the top of the pond in the exact same direction. That is because the Rudder on these things need decent water speed to "get a grip" and get the boat heading in a decent direction. The Hull just scoots over the top of the sea. A big Keel boat has a very big plus in this situation. All you have to do is get the nose in the general direction you want to go.