wheels 543 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Now this is just what the man from Hella told me OK. But apparently, there is no LED cluster Bulb that is approved as a replacement for the Bulb in a Masthead Tricolour for boats over 12m requiring a viewing distance of 2Nm. Even though I have been told by a Chandlery selling them that they are. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 "Approved" by who? Surely there is a visability requirement that is either achieved or not. It doesn't seem right that a tricolour should be standards "pre-approved" Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 You can buy US CG Approved ones for 5nms, maybe others I don't know. As far as I know no one in NZ has them but they are in Aussie. I don't know if MNZ would recognise a US CG Approval either. I suppose it's better than having a Joe Random for your own peace of mind. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 Just to be clear KM, are we talking the just the replacable bulb?? Because 5Nm is a hell of a long way for an LED cluster Bulb. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Yeap just the bulb. http://www.ledshoponline.com/BA_15_D_LED_masthead_bulb.htm Correction I read it wrong - They 'comply' with the US CG 5nm regs. It doesn't say they are 'Approved by'. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 They 'comply' with the US CG 5nm regs. It doesn't say they are 'Approved by'. Yeah....that was my point...... I would have thought that compliance with the rule performance specification would be all that was required. Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Part of the problem, especially for TRICOLOUR masthead lights is that the GREEN plastic lens does different things when different LED bulbs are used. The different manufacturers use both different numbers and qualities of LEDs and different PCBs chips etc which combined with different plastics (and glass occasionally) can generate anything from blue to purple through all the greens and at worst into browns. The RED goes Yellow to Orange. The Int Collision Prevention Regs have a specified colour range in an appendix. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 I'm wondering how the truckies get on with LED tail lights. My trucks all have the older style bulb tail lights......so does anyone know haw the guys with LED tail lights get on? They must have the same issue with colour and visibility perameters to comply with.....and also with LED/Lens compatability? Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'm wondering how the truckies get on with LED tail lights. My trucks all have the older style bulb tail lights......so does anyone know haw the guys with LED tail lights get on? They must have the same issue with colour and visibility perameters to comply with.....and also with LED/Lens compatability? RED is RED but I don't know if they have spectrum requirements, and generally don't have a lot of salt water / environmental issues. Further the trucks lights are washed almost once a year for most, if knot more often by most. Yes they do; but they generally have more than one light in EVERY direction and they are knot at the top of their radio aerials also their range is only about 100m or something relatively short, knot 1nm or 2nm and single bulb our lives depend upon. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Well it all came about because I was taking a look at what Hella had to offer. Having seen some of their pricing in the past, it was more a glance at what they had rather than interest in buying. Anyway, the guy started talking to me and he mentioned that prices had dropped dramaticaly with LED's from a few years back. So I thought, hmmm, OK maybe he has my attention, lets see. I had explained to the guy that I was slowly upgrading my lights to LED to reduce power consumption and we went through a few ceiling lights. At $50 a pop, I though hmmm, well I can't really see much of an inprovment price wise there, but I just replied, Oh OK and moved on to the next lights. He had their mast head running on display and wandered toward it and commented and I asked how muchy. With the reply of a bit over $600, the comment from me was why was their Mast head tri so damn expensive. And the guys explanation was due to the expense of getting approvals. So I said, well I think I might just replace the bulb in my Tri with the LED cluster bulb and one in my anchor light. He replied with, well no they don't have approval. "Are you sure???" I asked, "Because I specificaly asked the guy at Burnsco that especially. Is this light approved for this use in this size vessel yada yada. He said absolutely. The Hella guy replied, well that guy was wrong because no one has yet met approval for the cluster type replacement bulb and the reason was because of the problem with Red and Green. Apparently the White is OK, but the narrow bandwidth of light through the Red and Green lenses ends up giving a poor colour and brightness. With one big issue that the Green often looks more like Blue. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 OK. Let me get this right. So the $600 jobbie has an approval for the lens? Or is it the lens in conjunction with a specific LED cluster bulb? But that same LED cluster bulb is not approved as a replacement bulb with another lens? Approved by who? And do the regs require an "approved" light to be fitted? Link to post Share on other sites
grant 40 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 from what i understand the guys that designed the Hella nav lights also make proper navigation aids, (lighthouse stuff) and if they say their light meats sec you can be sure that it will. and that would be a light source matched with a lens. the difference in size shape etc between lamps and LEDS means that the old lenses are unlikely to work as designed with a different light source, IMHO a bloke in a boat shop that tells you his LED cluster bulb will meet any requirements without matching it to a specific lens is trying to make a sale without having a clue what he's on about. It may well be good enough, but is unlikely to be the best fit. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 So the $600 jobbie has an approval for the lens? The Hella Mast head Tri is a sealed unit with apparently special electronics and special LED's and special lens colours. Which I can believe. One thing for sure about Hella is that you really are getting the best. But it is just so darn expensive. I have no idea about any other manufacturers Sealed Tri. I also don't know if it is a case if for a non commercial boat, Close is good enough and a commercial must have the apptroved or if all boats are at risk of no insurance by having a Close enough unit fitted. Both Cluster bulb or dedicated unit. Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Probem occurs when it looks so easy to replace existing 25W bulb with one of the "new" LED bulbs now available, and there were many at the show, from many manufacturers. No problems below other than the similar fluoresent "white" tubes that ranged through "ICE" white, "COLD" white, normal "WHITE", "WARM" white, "BUTCHERS" white to "HOT" white. With Nav lights, yes they will work BUT in court if the colours are not within spectrum limits, then why were you knowingly operating such a defective yacht with so many faults . . . = GUILTY and watch the Insurance company disappear. Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 So the $600 jobbie has an approval for the lens? The Hella Mast head Tri is a sealed unit with apparently special electronics and special LED's and special lens colours. Which I can believe. One thing for sure about Hella is that you really are getting the best. But it is just so darn expensive. I have no idea about any other manufacturers Sealed Tri. I also don't know if it is a case if for a non commercial boat, Close is good enough and a commercial must have the apptroved or if all boats are at risk of no insurance by having a Close enough unit fitted. Both Cluster bulb or dedicated unit. Agree. It is really about matching the LED bulb characteristics with the Lens. Also therefore having the correct spares that also comply. Perhaps not so bad in NZ where 30nm visibility is the normal (except for 2/3rds of SIMRAD starts this year). Overseas in mist, fog sandstorms, & industrial smog, the light colours can be distorted badly. So the warning is if you are spending $$$, make sure that what you do is correct in this critical area. Avoid any future hassle factors for 5% more $ = KISS principle. I think Practical Boat Owner Mag had an article a few years ago and the spectrum graphs were most interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 The LOPOLIGHTS are also expensive, especially when first on the market, but they were all approved by the Danish or German Llyods equivalents IIRC and for commercial use. E.G. certificate. First on a list of several. http://www.lopolight.com/download/qq-med-15-09-01r%20lopolight%20med%20certificate%20(up%20to%2012%20meters).pdf Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Apparently the White is OK, but the narrow bandwidth of light through the Red and Green lenses ends up giving a poor colour and brightness..[/quote Had the same situation today at the IBS. One display had a set of nice looking nav lights and I asked about LEDs and she said no they are incandescent but you can replace thre globes with LEDs. I know this not to be true! LEDs have a narrower colour/temp range and will not filter through a coloured lens the right hue. OK, like some others came across Hella's stand and some nice BRIGHT port/starbd lights that were well priced BUT were totally sealed units so if any of the leds failed then buy another. They had COLOURED lenses so the LEDs had to be white??? Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Apparently the White is OK, but the narrow bandwidth of light through the Red and Green lenses ends up giving a poor colour and brightness..[/quote Had the same situation today at the IBS. One display had a set of nice looking nav lights and I asked about LEDs and she said no they are incandescent but you can replace thre globes with LEDs. I know this not to be true! LEDs have a narrower colour/temp range and will not filter through a coloured lens the right hue. OK, like some others came across Hella's stand and some nice BRIGHT port/starbd lights that were well priced BUT were totally sealed units so if any of the leds failed then buy another. They had COLOURED lenses so the LEDs had to be white??? See my earlier comments on types of white. Some LEDs could have different specs for the LED used for different sectors. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 BUT were totally sealed units so if any of the leds failed then buy another. Now that is where the difference between the expensive and the cheap is supposed to come in. The expoensive electronics are what are supposed to be able to create the high brightness level and yet allow a long life. You should be able to get 50,000hrs or better from the expensive ones. Me thinks there maybe a few other issues with the unit before you are worried about the actual LED's failing. In theory anyway. I never asked what the warranty time is and if that covers an LED failure within that time. Link to post Share on other sites
Battleship 100 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I bought one of the Hella tricoluor plus anchor units last year, the price was eyewateringly expensive but the rig was out anyway so I figured may as well do it properly, now I'm glad I did, after years of going up the rig to fix bad connections or replace bulbs it's something I no longer have to worry about. I would expect the unit to last a long time so will be interesting to see how long it lasts. Link to post Share on other sites
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