LED approval

[DrWatson 381]

OK, so there are not many LEDs approved.

 

But, and I apologize if I'm going back into the dark ages here, there are boats around, in NZ, which use exclusively kerosine lamps for nav lamps. Some of these boats have completed many many ocean miles. My question is are these actually still compliant or more, approved, for use in an international and hence MSA/ NZ Cat1 or Cat0 sense?

 

If they take issue with un-approved LEDs then they probably take issue with a flame.

[Guest]

I doubt it Dr W.

 

I've been summons to explain comments I use a fair bit along the lines of 'MNZ still use a book to specify gear, that was written by a James Cook on his way to NZ a few years back', 'Maybe if we could drag MNZ into the 20th century, asking for the 21st is still too big an ask' and other assorted comments like that.

 

So I'd say flame was still acceptable and probably preferred over that new fandangled lectrickery stuff

[DrWatson 381]

LOL

 

I did see a bright flame coming into Izzy Bay a few years back, as the flame got closer I heard some nice Jazz wafting along the water, eventually I saw some Nav lights, and a little while later Pindaric anchored up close by.

 

They had a citronella candle burning on the pushpit. Could be seen for friggin miles. I was actually quite impressed, and also a little jealous as I took another swig of warm beer (rum was gone) while watching them sip red wine and relax in the cockpit under the flickering light.

[Guest]

I think the Regs state 'visible from XXnm' so I suppose you could use anything that gets that distance.

 

I'm going LED masthead and once that's swapped I'll be a 100% LED boat.

[wheels 543]

Well I tell ya what, anything, even a flamin glow worm, would have to be better than those stupid Garden Lights people keep putting up the masts. I darn near ran straight into another yacht out at the Mercs. That makes the second yacht I have nearly run into. The only thing that saved him was that a small boat had their anchor light on and this yacht's light that I had thought was a house way in the distance on the hill behind, actually moved infront of the small boats brighter anchor light. I thought flamin heck, I have a boat right in front of me. They simply cannot bve seen from any distance and I am talking getting as close as 50m or closer. They look like any of the stars in the sky. Dim and bluish in colour. They fit right in. The only hope you have of seeing that it isn't a star is if it moves against the background.

[DrWatson 381]

I always hate the weak masthead anchor light.

 

Can't be seen when close up in a dark bay - Short of blinding everyone with a spotlight on entering to see them. I always ran a riding light off the pushpit or rigged under the boom. A little LED on a 6V battery. The electrics through most of the boat were shot and were next on the list of fix-mes until I shifted hemisphere, so the masthead had got lost years before I bought the boat and all the wiring as well.

With the little White LED The cabin top was illuminated and the mainsail flaked on the boom reflected a bit of light also. that way and people could see it. Wasn't so bright as to keep everyone awake, but you were damn sure it couldn't be confused for a star or a house on the hillside.

[PaulR 3]

OK, so there are not many LEDs approved.

 

But, and I apologize if I'm going back into the dark ages here, there are boats around, in NZ, which use exclusively kerosine lamps for nav lamps. Some of these boats have completed many many ocean miles. My question is are these actually still compliant or more, approved, for use in an international and hence MSA/ NZ Cat1 or Cat0 sense?

 

If they take issue with un-approved LEDs then they probably take issue with a flame.

 

I'ts a problem getting NCEA Certified Lantern Wick Trimmers these days, especially the youth who simply can't be bothered.

 

How much per hour are you paying

[idlerboat 116]

Hi all...I have posted about this a few times before.

 

refer back somewhere...

 

Col regs stipulate distance and colour. They also allow for Kerosine lanterns. I looked into this 15 years ago when I first started instaling my own LEDs. (couldnt buy commercial ones then) Got private advice from (offered free) from a very senior marine lawyer.

 

There are two very important differances.

 

One ..meeting colregs.

Two...other legal incumberances that your situation may have.

 

They are not the same.

 

If you are in a situation that requires that you only install "third party" certified equipment on your boat, that is your lot.

For everyone else , the colregs are (and meeting them by your insurance company) the requirements.

 

To give you some perspective. If you buy a known brand nav light with an incandesnt globe, and that globe blows....you go and buy another globe from somewhere...does that mean that that certification is still current or now void ? after all ..the most important thing is the globe.

Is a lens that is crazzed for what ever reason still legal...if it has a certification ? obviously not by the colregs.

 

The master of the vessel determins the sea worthiness of the vessel.

From my perspective, if you cant be seen to the limits of the colregs (regardless of all else) why ?

 

I have found no legal requirement on private vessels to instal commercialy certified lights. The requirements to meet colregs is (and should be) paromount.

 

......after all when your boat is on the bottom, it cant be tested....and you may not be able to take the witness stand.

As I have said before...if a bridge watch says in court that they couldnt see your lights, it really dosnt matter what lights you have. All they have to do is ask if you have either changed your globes...or trimmed your wicks....

There is the vague possibility of trying to bag LEDs as insuficent....but my legal guys said "bring it on" .."failure to keep a proper watch" will almost certanly negate that if it is used as a poor defense. .

As the master of your boat...meet the colregs...

 

and may I remind you all, that the ultimate colreg is that regardless of all else....it is the reponsibility of the master to avoid a collision....

 

enough said.

[Guest]

[Yeah....that was my point...... I would have thought that compliance with the rule performance specification would be all that was required.

 

I have found no legal requirement on private vessels to instal commercialy certified lights. The requirements to meet colregs is (and should be) paromount.

 

I thought that would be the case.........so the guys that are trying to sell $600 lights under the pretext of 'certification costs' are having a laugh at your expense the end of the day.

[PaulR 3]

Knot a laugh, more like passing on a small amount of their vast knowledge and experience. So it can be debated this is well undervalued.

 

As the consultant said "TAKE MY ADVICE, I'M NOT USING IT"

[wheels 543]

I have found no legal requirement on private vessels to instal commercialy certified lights. The requirements to meet colregs is (and should be) paromount.

Correct in regards to your Colregs comment. However, in regards to lights, their is no difference between commercial and Private. It is the same Colreg requirement for whatever length of vessel, no matter what else.

[Guest]

that does it.... I'm going to buy several 1kw LASERS and put them on a slow rotator.... if they can't see me then.... THEY CAN`T SEE ME... (the optomitrist said something about burnt out retaners ...)

[idlerboat 116]

Correct in regards to your Colregs comment. However, in regards to lights, their is no difference between commercial and Private. It is the same Colreg requirement for whatever length of vessel, no matter what else.

 

Sorry if you missunderstood. That is an important part of what I have said. The colregs obviously cover all vessels.

The differance that i was talking about is when a vessel may be bound by "other" legal stipulations.

ie...where a certain vessel may be doing work for hire and reward...that has a contract to a certain entity, that requires that all "things" may be certified by a third person".

 

My point is that for "small vessels" "not for hire or reward"..

Their requirement is to meet colregs....not a stipulation that every component on your boat has some kind of standards number.

...and even then,,,unless the vessel has a "complience schedule"...that covers "that" component, then the colregs still apply, and a nessesity to instal a local standards number certifyed component dosnt.

 

Let me put it another way...you can make your own life jackets...as long as they meet the standards. (not saying you should) but on a commercial vessel, the surveyor will want a third party to say that they meet those standards.

 

There could be a silly argument that lights and life jackets are the same...but they are not in all resonableness.

 

A standards met lens, that then has a boat owner put a LED globe in, no longer meets those paper standards...even if the outcome is brighter, and with a longer life.

 

ALL boats must meet colregs (as I have said before) but the mistaken idea that it is in some way "ilegal" for boats that are not governed by a commercial (or other legal entity) to have to instal "certified" parts is wrong.

 

It may happen one day....I trust that you all will be vocal enough to not let it.

[wheels 543]

I understood. What I was saying is that their is no difference between any private vessel (like yours and mine) and one for Hire and reward. Both reguire exactly the same under law. But the difference is that no one polices the private vessel, untill something goes wrong.