Cat 1 emergency tiller options for wheel steer

[sailfish 0]

Hi all,

 

So we have to get cat 1 and for cat 1 it states you must have an emergency tiller setup. Our boat is a rear cockpit wheel steel and the mechanism to the wheel steer comes directly off the top of the rudder stock. We have an auto pilot arm also which I installed and drilled to massive holes in the end for a future self steering gear pulley hook up. The problem I have is there is no way overhead (cockpit floor) or where the autopilot tiller is (without utilising pulleys) and no room at the back without cutting through the stern to mount any sort of emergency tiller.

 

Does anybody have any recommendations on what we could do?

[wheels 543]

You don't have to steer from the cockpit. A tiller that can be bolted to those two bolt holes on the quadrant should be OK. It does mean that someone would have to steer from down there. Stupid idea, but that is all the rule requires.

I am concerned though by the seeminlgy little holding that stearing box. Theres a lot of load going to be seen on that.

[sailfish 0]

are you talking about the black bit at the top as in automotive styled steering box?

[wheels 543]

Was thinking about the blue piece of box bolted to the stearing box to stop it front turning I assume. Hard to see exactly, but is it just a bolt each end holding it??

[sailfish 0]

two bolts on the steering box end and one pivot arrangement on the other. Not sure why it was set up like that. I guess it acts like a lever and the pivot stops it. Seems to work and held together threw kaori rip (dam that was freaky) but yeah next time we are in heavy seas ill pop below and have a nosy.

 

cheers for the tiller advice, was getting a little worried I'd have to butcher the transom or something

[wheels 543]

There are a few boats with similar ideas on that theme. But just remember, when the rudder goes, it will usualy be at the worst possible time and you have to remember that crawling into some little tight space to steer a boat when it is ruff is not a fun job. A thought though, can you fit and extension that comes far enough forward to steer from what ever place is errr....in front. Instead of being down in under there. In some cases even, if you are able to keep the Rudder midships, you can do a lot of stearing with sail trim or towing a drogue if the conditions are reasonable.

[sailfish 0]

Ok Think I have it sussed now. See the open window that goes into the cockpit. so a nice big rod (tiller extension) comes through that window and sits in the hand of someone sitting in the cockpit, nice and comfortable and good angle (slopes down through and up above the seat on the other side). Where it comes through the window it joins onto emergency tiller which extends almost all the way back to the auto pilot motor (below the yellow inverter). I'll weld a big plate under that motor that extends towards the camera. On this plate i'll put a pivot bolt which goes through about 300mm from the end of the emergency tiller. then at the end of the tiller, a link rod onto the autopilot tiller where the holes are. Should give me an emergency linkage through to the cockpit, going through the window. Will there be an issue with it going through the window you think?

[PaulR 3]

I would review how the old sailing ships were steered. They used chains and tackles on each side of the rudder or tiller which were then led up from below to another vertical pivoting arm on deck, to cleats. This then developed into a wooden drum operated by a tiller "until the introduction of the steering wheel in the late 17th century" to turn the drum. (see Oxford Companion to Ships and The Sea. P870 Tiller)

 

The blue "tiller" with 2 holes looks too short to attach the tackles directly to, as you won't develop enough power to steer.

 

I would have a heavy box section steel extension arm that slots around the small arm with two drop in bolts. The length to be as long as possible but there will be a bulkhead etc to limits the extensions length.

 

The front of this extension will have a swivelling (for alignment) plate with a single big bolt into the extension, perhaps even an over sized box section with a top plate, so it will slip over the extension, but still can swivel.

 

Can you build in some plates / mounts attached to hull at the outside edges of the bulkhead or floors

 

Then a series of blocks making tackles, perhaps cascading blocks rather than blocks with falls to avoid tangles.

 

The loose ends can be led up onto the deck.

 

Two choices:

1).Lead tackle to winches and steer by pulling in on the tackle. Generally only one rope will be under load, and you won't be planning on surfing down the waves for maximum speed. Rather just trying to have a steady sail to the nearest port.

 

Should be easy to winch in, and then generally steer by easing the main down the track so that it is starting to luff. This will reduce loading on the rudder, allowing the headsail to power the boat and fall off the wind to leeward a few degrees until the main fills and pushes the bow up into the wind.

 

Balancing the sails, possibly a reef in the main, will then give you a nice gentle sail, under control with constant luffing a bit followed by falling off a bit. Depending upon the wave and sea state, you should be able to sail within 20 degrees, perhaps even within 10 degrees or with lots of practice, hold a course within 5 degress. Admittedly you may be sailing with an apparent wind of 50 to 60 degrees, but you will be sailing on a relatively straight AVERAGE course at a reasonable speed, and in comfort. Put the kettle on now and a chook in the oven.

 

2). You mentioned self steering. Perhaps even buying the drum that fits on the steering wheel is enough. Then lead the tackles to that drum, winding on enough turns so you can steer normally. EASY PEASY.

 

The tackles can be lead through a pipe glassed in or bored through timber, and a simple cork will keep water out, or a large bolt head in silicon if you want more weight onboard.

 

3). Practice. Let the tiller go and see how well over an hour or two you can sail by easing the headsail and playing with the main.

 

4). Last week, in the olden days, boats were built with a hole through the top of the rudder which was then calked and painted. In an emergency, the ship's boy was lowered over the side, dough out the calking and attached a shackle fom which chains and tackles wer lead onto the deck as above.

 

Nothing new in boats, only new better, lighter, shinnier and more expensive things to handle the greater loads we now achieve in small boats.

 

These tackles are called "RELIEVING TACKLES being purchases rigged on either side of the tiller of a ship to ease the strain in heavy seas when the pressure on the rudder alone is to great for steering with the wheel alone. They were made unnecessary when steering engines were introduced, in which the movement of the steering wheel activates the engine, the tiller being thus put over by the engine and not by the wheel." (Oxford Companion P698)

 

These have worked well but a few years ago (28? IIRC), the container ship Mairangi Bay beached herself on Cheltnam Beach as she entered Auckland Harbour after here steering engine failed as she startered her turn to starboard to go round North Head. I think she was hard and fast for at least a week if not 2 or more.

 

We were waiting for our import cargo from Japan for at least that amount of time.

[PaulR 3]

Another way. on a 57ft ycht, we had a removable 100mm screw in cap/plate fitted directly over the rudder stock, in the helmsman's aft cockpit.

 

The emergency tiller was two tubes joined with a hinge arrangement, that when stowed simply lay side by side.

 

To use, one unscrewed the 100 mm cap, unfolded the two pipes into a right angle and drop the square end over the square top of the rudder head.

 

I had the rudder / autopilot ram jammed hard over and it took about 2 minutes to rig in the middle of Cowes UK very busy river between hovercraft, ferries and lots of yachts and launches. It was simple and easy and worked well.

 

The vertical pipe was long enough so that the horizontal pipe cleared the steering wheel and pedstal compass etc. I had enough leeverage to overcome the jammed rudder, but berthed using the tiller. Later we fitted a russer stop to avoid that happening again.

 

In your case can you slip a fork shaped / multi pronged metal piece over the top of the rudder bits & pieces, or over the short extension with the two holes in the end

[PaulR 3]

"Window with a rod through it"

 

In stormy weather and heavy rain, a lot of water will come below.

 

I would make a wooden storm shutter that can fit over / into the window void and have a backing strut / bar with 2 bolts with wing nuts.

 

Put a hole in the centre of the board, perhaps you could have an up stand so that you could hose clip on a rubber (car's) bellows. The smaller bellows end would go over the rod that goes through the window.

 

All can be pre-assembled and only assembled when required.

The open window will now effectively be blanked off, bar a very small dribble though the narrow part of the bellows. Perhaps consider this a "lubricating trickle"

 

Also the same part could be used in emergency to cover other similar sized windows.

[wheels 543]

Is that a freakin lathe on the left of the photo

[sailfish 0]

thanks for the tips guys, with all of that we'll get it sorted

 

yup its a lathe 500mm between centres. Not the best in the world (chinese) but better than not having one

[Guest]

is cat 1 just an emergency tiller/steering set up or do you have to be able to steer the boat when the rudder is completely gone?

[PaulR 3]

is cat 1 just an emergency tiller/steering set up or do you have to be able to steer the boat when the rudder is completely gone?

 

The emergency tiller is but one item on the list to cover steering wheel breakages, cable or other parts failing.

 

Losing the whole rudder is another and often harder thing to do and still harder is losing the rudder when still attached to the hull. Possibly you have more practical experience at these harder tasks than most of us.

 

Time to share any suggestions you have.

[PaulR 3]

thanks for the tips guys, with all of that we'll get it sorted

 

yup its a lathe 500mm between centres. Not the best in the world (chinese) but better than not having one

 

How disappointing. Wheels was really hoping it was the gyroscopic stabilisers for the compass and radar dome gimble motor hydraulic control valves.

 

He would be really impressed then

[wheels 543]

Or the valving for the torpedoe tubes

 

JH, yes as Paul answered, it is just one of many different alternative instances of steering. I think like many of us, the Cat1 rules tend to go slightly overboard while at the same time lacking. Such as the alternative tiller arrangment, but in many boats, the position is such that in a heavey sea, the ability to actually steer is damn near impossible as it will leave the crew member seriously seasick. Many modern boats have the rudder shaft/quadrant area terminate under an aft Bunk or something similar and it is clostraphobic and difficult to get to.

But then again, looking at it all from a different angle, the Cat 1 rule makes the skipper think hard about how he would solve such a problem which produces several results.

The skipper is brought to the realisation such a problem can occur.

The skipper is forced to understand his steering system.

The skipper is forced to learn how to find other ways to steer his boat.

[PaulR 3]

Have you knot considered the controls for a secret underwater diving chamber or have I been watching too much 007 action

 

Damm the Torpedoes, FULL SPEED AHEAD

[smithy09 50]

You could consider calling your autopilot an emergancy tiller, especially if you have a back up.. It IS in fact an real alternative to wheel steering and probably the one you would use if your wheel steering failed...

[Guest]

how far under the boat is the top of the rudder aft, and do you think you could get to it from the transom ?

some people have a hole put in there rudder near the top of the trailing edge that you can attach a rope or shackle ( depending on the rudders construction ).

Then you take the ropes around the hull or up the transom to your whinches or cleats to control the rudder.

[Chewing Gum 17]

Trying to figure out how that steering systm works ?

How does the autopilot ram push against the gearing in the steering box ?

I had a rotary autopilot motor with chain drive turning the steering shaft on a similar steering setup.

Current boat has quadrant and cable.Have used autopilot to steer approaching Fitzroy after steering failure until emergency tiller fitted to rudder shaft.