Handicapping

[Guest]

From SA

 

Is this a solution to our non - functional system?

 

 

stepping up

 

Bitching about handicaps and rating systems has unfortunately become a major part of handicap racing, but most are content to continue bitching as participation continues to drop. BYC member and perennial handicap race winner Frank Kern (J/120 'Carinthia') explains what a group of owners are doing to buck the trend with the new ORROA (ORR Owners Association) racing series.

 

At the end of last year, after talking to a number of fellow owners, the frustration with the many different rules in place was becoming apparent, with some owners so unhappy with the rules they were stuck with that they began skipping races. PHRF is nearly universal, but it's application by local officials can lead to some strange results, and often it is hard for committees to fairly rate new or one-off designs. Other international rules unfairly penalize sportboats and many 10-20 year old offshore designs while sportboats and many 10-20 year old offshore designs have ratings that are carries the inevitable drawbacks that brings, while Our brainstorming session came up with an idea to give sailors a reason to participate in more races - create a series for them to compete under a rating rule that they consider fair.

 

Our idea for an alternatively rated series is not a new one, and series racing has been proven to lead to better entry lists - the rebirth of SORC is a good example of that. So we formed the Offshore Racing Rule Owners Association (ORROA) to promote and encourage offshore racing under the Offshore Racing Rule (ORR) by providing a velocity prediction, research-based handicapping system. Many of the inaccuracies that were inherent in the old IMS rule have been corrected in the current rule, and by providing a fair and accurate handicapping system, the organization will encourage participation from a broad group of boat owners, inviting them to become active participants in this new association and championship racing series.

 

ORROA will be providing information on the rule, measurement and procedures to its members and prospective members, and through its website www.orroa.org and the ORROA Facebook page, will chronicle ORR race results and other pertinent information concerning the rule. It will be a regular resource for boat owners and help them understand the rule, obtain ORR certificates and establish geographic regatta series in different areas of the country. As updates are made to the rule, the association will keep the owners up to date on changes made.

 

Using the 2010 Great Lakes series as a model, ORROA will help establish similar championships in other parts of the country for 2011. The GL ORROA series will require no entry fee - all that owners need to do is go to the site and register their boat. We'll take results from the Chicago Race to Mackinac, Bayview Mackinac, Queen’s Cup, International 100 (Port Huron), and Annual Little Traverse Regatta, and for the events that don't use ORR, we'll apply an ORR rule overlay to the event results to compute ORR finishing positions. It will not be necessary to sail all the regattas to qualify.

 

There has been a lot of controversy over the different rules, and maybe that's just how it always will be. But we'd like to try something different, and by encouraging the usage of ORR in a positive manner, we hope to persuade owners that have been turned off by recent ratings developments to get on the water again.

04/15/10

[SloopJohnB 322]

Another FPSA.

 

 

predict for growth

Bracket Racing Handicap System

 

We have all seen the same phenomenon and heard the same stories of dwindling fleets at most, if not all levels of handicap racing. Here in South Florida, the effects of this are glaring, with fleet numbers down almost everywhere. Our club in Ft. Lauderdale has repeatedly had to cancel races due to lack of interest. I have asked a number of people with boats that are ready to go racing, why they are not participating. One issue that comes up again and again is ratings. Our club uses a PHRF-type system, with more credits given than are allowed in PHRF, with adjustments that are more forgiving. This came to pass after the true PHRF class within the club died off.

 

I found myself working on an NOR for another race, and wondering whether anyone would show up, and what we could change about ratings to help spur local participation. My first thought was whether or not I was the problem, as the club handicapper. I looked at the numbers for another local area where I had worked on ratings, and the fleet numbers are falling precipitously there too, so I ruled myself out as the problem. Eventually, I figured that it boils down to either people never being happy with their rating, (except the guy whose boat is winning everything, and he doesn’t want a new rating assigned in an Assigned Rating System), or another factor, like the economy.

 

Back at square one, I picked up a copy of Hemmings Motor News, conveniently located within arms-length of the “captain’s chair” in our “special thinking room,” to look at some classic old cars that I could never afford. I flipped to a page with a picture of a local Friday night bracket race at a drag strip, and had an epiphany. Generally, I am thinking of a type of handicap racing similar in concept to bracket racing with drag race cars. With brackets, the competitor picks the dial-in number (the time estimated to complete the quarter-mile track) and the winner is (usually) the car that gets closest to their dial in, without going below the number. Those completing the quarter mile quicker than their dial-in "break-out" and are on the trailer for the night.

 

In my scenario, each competitor picks the rating for their boat. The winner is the boat that sails closest to its handicap for a given race, with those sailing below their handicap being tossed, or otherwise penalized. In other words, while corrected times would still be needed, they alone would not decide the race. They would be used in race analysis, to determine each boat's sailed-to rating for that race, and the winner would be the boat that sailed closest to its rating, without going under it. Competitors who give themselves fat ratings would get pinched when they sailed below their number. Good consistent teams that know themselves and their equipment and have good teamwork would excel.

 

Keep in mind, I cannot see this working above the local level, if there. I am struggling with solving the race analysis issue, which would have to happen for every race, to determine a rating-sailed-to number. With race analysis, a base boat has to be chosen, so the winner would necessarily be the boat chosen as the base boat. There would have to be a better, or more equitable way to perform race analysis to develop the sailed-to ratings.

 

The other problem would be sand-bagging, because a tuned-in team could give itself a ridiculously high rating, and then sail slowly around the course and not sail below it. At some point, there has to be some shame involved...at any level. Even in regular PHRF racing there are people who sail with old rags until they get their handicap adjusted. This way, the shame would be much more immediate and public. Sand-bagging could be avoided by not publicizing the ratings before the race.

 

I ask the Intelligentsia of Sailing Anarchy for your thoughts. Might this be worth pursuing, perhaps as an alternate scoring of a regular race? How does one solve the race analysis issue in a logical and equitable fashion? How does one prevent sand bagging? Please check in here with your thoughts.

 

07/13/10

[Guest]

I think the huge number of replies says it all Squid. The exact thing is happening here as over there.

 

No one here seems to care and the few who have tried to tweak the system so it'll work better are just labelled as wingers, often by people who don't actually sail under PHRF and complain about shrinking fleets, go figure.

[Guest Dry Reach]

I think the huge number of replies says it all Squid. The exact thing is happening here as over there.

 

No one here seems to care and the few who have tried to tweak the system so it'll work better are just labelled as wingers, often by people who don't actually sail under PHRF and complain about shrinking fleets, go figure.

 

... really? ....

 

 

 

all i will say is... ONE DESIGN!

 

oh and also this system...

 

 

the three rule system..

 

1. Max Length

 

2. Line honours only

 

3. do what you want

[Guest]

One Design is the best racing, but we just don't have the numbers to support it beyond the dinghy classes.

 

I don't think the three rule will work either, though I can appreciate the thinking behind it, historically whenever the rulemakers have tried to pin down one or more measurements the results have been really horrible boats.

 

I think KM may have hit the nail on the head. We have an inadequate system, more by historical accident than by design, but collectively not enough energy to do anything about it.

[Guest Dry Reach]

One Design is the best racing, but we just don't have the numbers to support it beyond the dinghy classes.

 

I don't think the three rule will work either, though I can appreciate the thinking behind it, historically whenever the rulemakers have tried to pin down one or more measurements the results have been really horrible boats.

 

I think KM may have hit the nail on the head. We have an inadequate system, more by historical accident than by design, but collectively not enough energy to do anything about it.

 

 

Yip plus people just want to be different.

 

Also most of the upgrades / mod's of class boats is because...

they can't afford the new machines,

 

we don't make new race boats here,

 

they can't sell their existing boats

 

and its the only way to keep up with the newer faster boats (and the other guys who update their boats )

 

Our market is full of sailors buying second hand race boats too. so the same old boats are recirculating.

 

also The costs of owning, maintaining and racing boats have ruined participation!

[Guest Rocket]

11 MRXs sitting in Westhaven... Was initially great one design racing - then the (younger)Owners started only playing matchracing - that killed it for me. But the fleet is still there and all still equal.

 

I think people have generally moved on from traditional keel boats and want to stick prods on and reach hither and thither at great pace. I also think we have a bunch of keel boat sailors that actually hate the thought of having their skills tested in a one design class. My response is to get into lasers - and test myself that way. Keelboat wise accept the reality and just have fun and don't pretend to be doing any more than that.

 

Do the odd keel boat regatta or series, and the odd coastal and ocean race but accept that it is more for the camaraderie than anything and focus on good seamanship, testing manouevres etc. but don't expect boat on boat stuff...

[Variant 2]

I think most people are not too fussed about handicapping, one design racing is the thing to do if you want to prove your ability but it does not suit everyone. A lot of people enjoy racing different boats against eachother as they try to work their boats strong points eg heavy boat gets passed down wind then claws it back upwind. Similar to motor racing where people enjoy different types of car on the track at the same time. Remember how good bathurst used to be when they had Skylines and BMW's? It is pretty lame now with only Falcons and Commodores.

 

If someone races their boat and perhaps manages to pass a boat which they know in theory is faster then that is where most of the fun is for a lot of people, not necessarily winning on handicap. So I would suspect shrinking fleets is more to do with peoples spare time and money.

[Guest]

One design is all well and good but the reality is we just don't have it in NZ, in keelboats at least. Sure there are the 88's but that's about it and even then it's often marginal.

 

If PHRF worked better more boats would race, maybe knot 100's but at least a number more, that is a fact.

 

So DR in response to your 'what more do you want' question I think the answer would be - 5 million dollars to build a couple of good true OD fleets. Shall I send a courier or would you like to post it?

[SloopJohnB 322]

One Design is the best racing, but we just don't have the numbers to support it beyond the dinghy classes.

 

Like in any class, there are people who like to bastardize the boat they sail to try to make it go faster thus making it a arms race instead of a class race.

 

Yes there is a shortage of good PT's at moment, I know of a bunch of guys who to trade in lazers for a decant boat. So I am on the warpath for butchers.

[SloopJohnB 322]

Another good example of bastardization is the Ross 930, SR26 do I need to go on.

 

Some of my best racing has been in Sunburs'ts and PT's, oops I forgot the IOR in the mid 70"s.

[Battleship 100]

I think most people are not too fussed about handicapping, one design racing is the thing to do if you want to prove your ability but it does not suit everyone. A lot of people enjoy racing different boats against eachother as they try to work their boats strong points eg heavy boat gets passed down wind then claws it back upwind. Similar to motor racing where people enjoy different types of car on the track at the same time. Remember how good bathurst used to be when they had Skylines and BMW's? It is pretty lame now with only Falcons and Commodores.

 

If someone races their boat and perhaps manages to pass a boat which they know in theory is faster then that is where most of the fun is for a lot of people, not necessarily winning on handicap. So I would suspect shrinking fleets is more to do with peoples spare time and money.

 

Couldn't agree more Variant, the different characteristics of vessels in differing weather conditions and points of sail is part of the fun.

I think expecting PHRF to accurately handicap so many different boats for all manner of races and conditions is asking for the impossible. I do think though, YNZ have been making a real effort in the last couple of years.

 

The main thing is you have a good race to get a handicap win is just a bonus.

 

ps might be time to change your name to something more Jolly

[Guest]

I think expecting PHRF to accurately handicap so many different boats for all manner of races and conditions is asking for the impossible. I do think though, YNZ have been making a real effort in the last couple of years.

 

Ah but my dear Willow, many clubs do run accurate h/c systems. Agree, YNZ have lifted their game and that's all good but there is a long ways to go IMO.

 

If PHRF moved more than once a year it would become a lot more accurate. It is getting the input and more of it. All that has to happen is that button is pushed more than once a year. The only real problem it has it is too slow to move.

[Battleship 100]

Agreed but the club handicaps are part of the problem in that most boats only race PHRF once or twice a year and clubs don't usually submit results to YNZ for various reasons, maybe there needs to be a better way to enable clubs to do this.

 

Definately if results were in more often and PHRF was adjusted a little more often it would be more accurate, but I still think a handicap win is more often good luck rather than good management especially in coastal races.

[Guest]

Agree to your agree but up you a - there is a lot of results going into the system now, sure more would be good but there is enough now to make it far better if it was reviewed more often.

 

Maybe people think a h/c win is only good luck purely as the system has trained you to think that way?

[markm 30]

KM, you may not have noticed that around 20 certificates were reissued yesterday.

[Guest]

But in response to what?

[Guest Dry Reach]

One design is all well and good but the reality is we just don't have it in NZ, in keelboats at least. Sure there are the 88's but that's about it and even then it's often marginal.

 

If PHRF worked better more boats would race, maybe knot 100's but at least a number more, that is a fact.

 

So DR in response to your 'what more do you want' question I think the answer would be - 5 million dollars to build a couple of good true OD fleets. Shall I send a courier or would you like to post it?

 

?.... the remark was "do what you want"... but if the question was what do you want?... then my answer would be...

 

wait for it...

 

 

yes i know you have heard it before...

 

 

but...

 

 

"i would want YNZ to take a more active leadership role in the sport they "govern"... and look at these issues and meet with the "people " to decide how to resolve the issues that hold the (thier) (our) sport back.

 

After all they take our money, accept SPARC funding... and then sit back and watch the yachting stagnate (or not evolve)!

 

and before you say it... sure the sailors and clubs need to put more effort in! ...i say...but these issues need firm leadership from the top!

 

If the people sailing want a better system or a change then YNZ need to listen and ACT!

 

or... it ends up being a discombobulated "bottom up" effect where people do their own thing, classes are lost and we all sail mavericks on a dumb handicap system.

 

 

YNZ are the glue that should work with the people and seek a good solution to sailors who want to race non one design!... and they have been Missing in inaction"

 

 

If it don't work either accept it or fix it.

[Guest Dry Reach]

Also... (rant continues)

 

... nah! forget it!... nothing will change! and YNZ keep taking the big money

[Guest]

I think putting rum on your breakfast is making your posts somewhat rambling like DR.