Guest Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Over the top of the ply nail some mesh , i guess 8 layers or so should be plenty then put sand and cement over and scree it off then cure it. 20mm thickness should be plenty. Do check this with an engineer first though as I've not any credentials in regards to ferro. Should be fine though and you should end up with a good waterproof job that will last and look clean too. You could tile it if needed. Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 if you were still thinking of hanging roofing below the deck you should consider alsynite a nz made fibreglass sheet roofing or other non metallic roofing sheets like laserlite etc, as they would be out of the sun they should last a long time. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I do a bit of cad work ( moonlighting ) for a reclad company, and are very familiar with E2, B1, nz3604 ...... The big thing with the council is accountability ( being able to pass the buck ) So without a suppliers product details, installation manual, approved installer ( trained, or self approval from supplier ) and warranty they will likely say No! From a boat builders point of view I wouldn't use any less than 450g csm, and you will need to allow for 60% minimum resin content. ( just think nocks and dings, heels etc. The council won't now, let you just do it. I would be calling Sika and talking to Gavin Norrington, or trying FGI Nuplex They supply to the building trade and may well have a "system" matching your plans For a membrane system Skellerup or Gerard Don't forget the minimum 1.5degrees of fall, and state it on the plans, and you will need guttering if the run off is anywhere near an access way or communal area Link to post Share on other sites
cam 0 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Over the top of the ply nail some mesh , i guess 8 layers or so should be plenty then put sand and cement over and scree it off then cure it. 20mm thickness should be plenty. Do check this with an engineer first though as I've not any credentials in regards to ferro. Should be fine though and you should end up with a good waterproof job that will last and look clean too. You could tile it if needed. Ferro is interesting actually, and I see there is a whole sub-culture of people making amazing creations with it (generally on rebar and mesh). Some very cool shapes/structures can be made and looks like cool stuff to get creative with. but think I will persevere with fiberglass on plywood of some kind at this stage, as it will be a lighter structure and should attach to a flexible wooden deck in a way I understand. I just don't know enough about ferro and a bit worried about having issues with movement, weight and repairing it. Should be easy enough to repair fg on ply. Also a bit wary in case a future builders report on the house, has the same issues about assessing build quality, that I understand ferro boats can have, which might scare future buyer off. Anything non-standard has this issue (ie even my own glass layup), but I reckon I can accept the risk with fg on ply as it seems quite low. Link to post Share on other sites
cam 0 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 if you were still thinking of hanging roofing below the deck you should consider alsynite a nz made fibreglass sheet roofing or other non metallic roofing sheets like laserlite etc, as they would be out of the sun they should last a long time. yep agreed, fiberglass or polycarb would be a good way to go for this solution. may yet do this. cheers. Link to post Share on other sites
cam 0 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 I do a bit of cad work ( moonlighting ) for a reclad company, and are very familiar with E2, B1, nz3604 ...... The big thing with the council is accountability ( being able to pass the buck ) So without a suppliers product details, installation manual, approved installer ( trained, or self approval from supplier ) and warranty they will likely say No! From a boat builders point of view I wouldn't use any less than 450g csm, and you will need to allow for 60% minimum resin content. ( just think nocks and dings, heels etc. The council won't now, let you just do it. I would be calling Sika and talking to Gavin Norrington, or trying FGI Nuplex They supply to the building trade and may well have a "system" matching your plans For a membrane system Skellerup or Gerard Don't forget the minimum 1.5degrees of fall, and state it on the plans, and you will need guttering if the run off is anywhere near an access way or communal area Excellent thanks for that fng, hey do you think 1.5l per sq meter is a realistic coverage rate for a primer coat, 450g cloth, and 2 top coats? Council are ok at this stage about using resin/epoxy as it is purely an external deck which avoids the need to E2 compliance on the membrane (so they have said so far now, on 2 occassions). I have looked at Nuplex, Trafficgard, Dexx etc... and they all seem to use a water based epoxy and 300g cloth, and all cost a fair whack. so that is where I started looking for alternatives. Link to post Share on other sites
w44vi 17 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Are epoxy's UV stable ? or would it need to be painted/over coated Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Cam, if you were doing it on a bench with a squeege and a glass roller I would say yes that's enough resin, but I would expect you to be using a broom handle and a paint roller, so I will say no. more like 1.8 - 2.0 Epoxy isn't uv stable long term so you will need to paint it or tread grip it. Sika do a 2step system that is tinted and has a few extras in it that's pretty good for floors ( fork lift proof ) I gather that it wont be attached to the house cladding in any way ? and is totally stand alone ? And how will you access it ? Link to post Share on other sites
cam 0 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Are epoxy's UV stable ? or would it need to be painted/over coated yes I understand that epoxy does need protection from UV in general and I was planning on painting. Apart from the fact that unpainted (or untinted) fibreglass would look fairly unattractive, it is also where I will put some non skid material if the surface seems to slippy. I think you can tint the top coat of epoxy itself for some UV protection, but it doesn't offer the level of UV protection of a exterior paint from what I have read when looking into this a few years ago. I built a cedar strip kayak back then, and the UV protection was important to avoid the yellowing of the clear epoxy. but UV also degrades epoxy strength wise and breaks down the epoxy itself I believe. Link to post Share on other sites
cam 0 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Cam, if you were doing it on a bench with a squeege and a glass roller I would say yes that's enough resin, but I would expect you to be using a broom handle and a paint roller, so I will say no. more like 1.8 - 2.0Epoxy isn't uv stable long term so you will need to paint it or tread grip it. Sika do a 2step system that is tinted and has a few extras in it that's pretty good for floors ( fork lift proof ) I gather that it wont be attached to the house cladding in any way ? and is totally stand alone ? And how will you access it ? Thanks for that Sika product will check it out. Good point the roller application (that was the intention) will use a fair bit more resin than a squeegee in a workshop applied job. Cheers will factor this in when considering. The deck is attached to the house structurally, ie the joists attach to a trimmer plate bolted to the house, on 12mm packers (with EPDM washers for weatherproofing the bolt thru the cladding) and I am planning on keeping the plywood deck surface itself 12mm off the house cladding. This is why the council consider I am still outside the building envelope and it is just an external deck. albeit a solid surface deck made of properly treated ext ply, and with rainfall catchment built in. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Cam the ferro is used a lot to cover timber floors in bathrooms, simply one layer of birdwire then 20mm sand and cement mixed at 3:1 then tile. Less likely to have problems with ferro than with any other method if done properly and engineered. Its simple tech and low cost. Your structure should be able to handle the weight as it is spread evenly and has to be up to building specs so should not be a problem. At 20mm thick its not overly heavy. Link to post Share on other sites
cam 0 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yes I can see ferro has some nice old school advantages in many ways actually. and would be the toughest surface compared to alternatives. Altho the joists in this situation span 3.4m over much of this large deck. I imagine there will be more flex there than in a bathroom install, and not sure what flex it could take. As you suggest an engineer would be the best place to find out. Finding one who has experience in this stuff might be a bit tricky. This was that cedar strip kayak I mentioned, my last fibreglassing project. different beast altogether than a residential deck! http://picasaweb.google.com/116011123002831194282/Kayak#5569535121312523442 Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 This was that cedar strip kayak I mentioned, my last fibreglassing project. different beast altogether than a residential deck!http://picasaweb.google.com/116011123002831194282/Kayak#5569535123732965506 Now that is nice! And you say you had to paint over it? Sinful. Link to post Share on other sites
cam 0 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thanks megwyn. Oh no I didnt paint over it actually, I used varnish to give it the UV protection in this case. Quite a few coats of varnish actually. http://picasaweb.google.com/116011123002831194282/Kayak#5569560205229247602 Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 That is a work of art! Did you use red and yellow cedar? M Link to post Share on other sites
cam 0 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Cheers M. Actually it is all Western Red Cedar. I found some dark and light lengths in the stack (of roughsawn 200*50 WRC) with nice color to make the contrasting strips. It meant moving aLOT of timber to find the bits I wanted! The guys at city timber thorndon must be used to boat nuts, as they didnt mind a bit while I made a huge mess of their neat wood stack Link to post Share on other sites
cam 0 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 re water based epoxy it gets curiouser and curiouser... the enquiries I have made to suppliers of water based epoxy (not the deck memrane folks, but those epoxy people who will sell WBE to me as a product) claim they dont recommend them for wood (esp exterior wood) as it does not penetrate into timber as well as solvent based epoxies. Yet all the membrane deck suppliers I looked into use water based epoxy. interesting. I suspect there may be a large range of products in this category with various characteristics, and it may be too hard to generalise without knowing what products contain and what they are designed for. Either that or these deck membrane people are using WBE purely chosen for cost and convenience of application. I know not. interesting tho. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Ferro is very flexible, will not crack if proper procedures are used. You may even get away with a thinner application. Don't even need galvanised wire! I doubt civil engineer would have any problems with ferro cement as it is used extensively for water tanks. Another advantage is there need not be any joins. Link to post Share on other sites
cam 0 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yes the lack of joins and hard wearing nature of the surface is a big plus for sure. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I understand people have reservations regarding ferro cement in yachts but in house construction? No. Link to post Share on other sites
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