Mothership 6 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 it's tough out there. Who else got the email from Squadron saying the flags are concerned about 33kn winds gusting to 46 on Saturday, and they're considering pulling the Te Kouma race? If it's a reach in those conditions, no one would see which way we went Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 They better not cancel it - we've been wanting to finally get a chance to use the storm chute! Link to post Share on other sites
Mothership 6 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 The race start has been moved to 1pm. In the forecast conditions, we would have likely been on our way back by then Link to post Share on other sites
B00B00 310 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Good call I think. Sending a fleet out in forecasts of 60kts would be plain dumb. Better to let everyone make something of the morning.... Link to post Share on other sites
Mothership 6 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 The forecast at the time of the call was 30-32 knots gusting 45 knots. Is that really that unsailable for the average race boat? Link to post Share on other sites
B00B00 310 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sending a fleet on with even a 45kt forecast is asking for trouble....... Let's not get into this old debate again. 45kts is a lot of wind and people can get into trouble real quick. Is it a cat 3 race? If its cat 3 then that one thing but cat 4 is a different story. Link to post Share on other sites
Mothership 6 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 True. Not to mention, it is only a forecast as well. How clubs expect crew and boats to get prepared for anything these days is a mystery, though. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The forecast at the time of the call was 30-32 knots gusting 45 knots. Is that really that unsailable for the average race boat? Your boat can handle that sort of wind, when the average boat will struggle in it. Ive manage to damage boats in 25 knots just because the owners havnt looked after the boat or someone has done a cheap job on something. No way will you see me out in that weather unless I know that the skipper and boat can handle it. Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The question has to be asked though Stephen - how does a skipper know if they can handle it if they have never tested themselves? We do need to be out there in 'marginal' conditions, to test ourselves, and to learn just how seaworthy our boats are. We have been out in 30 gusting 35 in the tender Elliott 7.8. Yes it was hard yaccca, and nail biting stuff, but the boat handled it (by reducing sail+++) and so did we. Even more important, we learned that we didn't have to be freaked out by a bad forecast - we could always get home. In the same boat, we were caught at the Barrier for Wilma. Were very thankful of the new anchor we had bought - which held. So we knew it would hold in nearly anything. Just have to get the same close understanding and relationship with the Offender, so I know her as well as I did the Elliott. . . Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Yes but people are we forgetting we can do this testing in a controlled manner that doesnt include a race? If you want to test the strength and integrity of a boat go sailing when its forecast for 45 knots. but we dont need to actively encourage boats that perhaps may not have done that yet, to rush out there in a race environment. Take for example the RNZ two handed. Well run and all the boats before they could set off were required to sail a qualifier not in a race environment to prove suitability. Our races in Auckland dont require that and nor should they, But because of that we dont know what boats are up to what level so cant send racers on a Cat 4 race out in that surely? I agree with the decision. Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Yes - agree MM - a race is not the best time to push your boundaries. I always felt more comfortable when pushing boundaries on the Elliott if there was another Trailer Sailor out there too. Especially if they did not have the 400kg of lead under them that we had, yet they were handling it. Gave us some level of confidence that the boat could handle it, so therefore so could we. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Even though we were dead eager to sail on Saturday, I have to say it was the right call to can the race. Given the nature of the race and boats involved, the possibility of something going tits up big time was pretty high. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The question has to be asked though Stephen - how does a skipper know if they can handle it if they have never tested themselves? We do need to be out there in 'marginal' conditions, to test ourselves, and to learn just how seaworthy our boats are. We have been out in 30 gusting 35 in the tender Elliott 7.8. Yes it was hard yaccca, and nail biting stuff, but the boat handled it (by reducing sail+++) and so did we. Even more important, we learned that we didn't have to be freaked out by a bad forecast - we could always get home. In the same boat, we were caught at the Barrier for Wilma. Were very thankful of the new anchor we had bought - which held. So we knew it would hold in nearly anything. Just have to get the same close understanding and relationship with the Offender, so I know her as well as I did the Elliott. . . I was referring to mothership as crew and boat have been tested in rough conditions and have handled it well. Theres a reason he would have been a little unhappy if it had of been cancelled as systems thunder flys on a reach in anything over 30 knots and can not be beaten by another mono hull in Auckland. As for a average race boat, winds of 33 knots and gusts of up to 45 knots should be fine as long as they have done what marshey suggested and have sailed in that sort of weather before. Its asking for trouble if you havnt seen 40 knots before and dont no what to do in it and how to keep everyone safe. Link to post Share on other sites
Mothership 6 Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 B00B00's comment I think is salient in that there are different expectations for CAT3 and CAT4. However, at some point experience in winds greater than 25-30 knots would be of value to owners and crew. As mentioned, they'd be fine if boat and crew have experienced it before, but when are they to get this experience if races are never started in these kind of conditions? Without hopping on the soapbox too much, skippers should be given the latitude to decide whether they go out or not. Otherwise we may as well call the races off at 15 knots as there are boats out there that could get into trouble above that. The Coastal is the big CAT3 race, however how many shorter races are there to prepare crews for it? If winds come in half way through at 40 knots the skippers don't get the choice to be at home enjoying a nice rum; they've got to work it out on the water. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I can't help myself. We were due to do the race. RNZYS worked hard to ensure if at all possible it would happen. They consulted widely with crews early in the week. Then they announced an early postponement in order to see what the weather would be after the front went through. The finish boat even went over to Coromandel on Friday knowing the conditions. This race is run with a boat start in the middle of the harbour, and a boat finish - away from Auckland. It placed far more emphisis on the race committee being able to operate than say a start off a race tower / wharf. We got as far as having all crew on the boat when they abandoned. While we would have gone, the decision was ok by us. My crew and I know what the inner Gulf can be like. We did the last Simrad when it blew 2 years ago, and I was on a Gold Cup race that started in 30 and ended in 50kn with 1 mast broken and 1 boat wrecked. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Well MS those skippers that want to experience a bit more breeze should go out when it is windy. We took our little 1/4 tonner out on Auckland harbour when it was blowing 45 (on the harbour bridge) back in the day. Got it to go upwind, got a kite on downwind - even tried pulling the board up (which made it a lot more controllable). That way we knew what to do when we got to Channel Island at dusk during the QTC in about 40 knots with big breaking seas. We also knew it was going to be shite. We didn't have rescue boats or cell phones or EPIRBs, and not sure there was even Coast Guard nannies around either... But now it seems people want someone else to organise their fun (and no doubt share the responsibility when it goes wrong). So stop whinging get out there and do it! You will find it is very liberating. Link to post Share on other sites
Mothership 6 Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Jono; you raise a good point about the committee boats and what they're able to handle. Rocket; that's not the point - getting out there is one thing, racing is another. The idea of getting out and practicing is a good one though. In fact, the skippers/boats that aren't comfortable in breezes of 25-30 knots or more and expect everyone's racing to be pulled because of this, could get out more and practice so that everyone can enjoy racing in a wider variety of conditions, and everyone would win. More racing, and a better equipped and trained fleet able to sail in more conditions. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Trust me if it is blowing 40 and you get a kite up and down a few times, maybe pull off a gybe the racing bit is irrelevant. I know what you mean about sooner or later you will be caught out- but if you get out and do it you will know where your crew is at. Really there is a point where the racing thing is not the primary issue - keeping everyone on board and th erig in becomes a bit more important. Or find a like minded crew/owner and both go out? Thats what we do in dinghys Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Just to add (no edit button) one of the funnier comments made by a fellow jelly belly laser sailor to me went like this: We were off Tamaki both upside down in the middle of the channel sitting with one foot on the centerboard waiting for the squall to go through - it was blowing about 40.. (middle of winter and as grey as blowing from the SW). We were trying to get back to the ramp... He looks across and says - "Hey mate not all bad, at least we are out here doing it eh" Had to larf Link to post Share on other sites
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