Guest Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farmi ... 766354.htm are these all they're cracked up to be?, seem a hell of a price Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 The word I'm hearing is Yes and they last damn well. But they do cost. As a FYI, I've been looking at the same thing, having a supposed death trap that some seen to think sails upside down all the time, and was told to suss a crowd who knows this stuff well and does sharp pricing. Just so happens I have their price list. Their price for the same thing is NZ$740 (@ todays FX rate) ..... but don't get too excited that's before shipping and GST. They are in the US and they don't fly batteries. So that price isn't that bad really I'd say. Still a fair whack for a 100amps of storage though. Weight is 17.5kg according to the list I have. I'm also told it is highly recommended you don't use any old charger so the impression I get is you'd need to buy one of those at the same time. Another couple of hundy gone there. If the cost was a bit lower I'd be in like a rocket. The price will drop over time hopefully. Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I'm also told it is highly recommended you don't use any old charger so the impression I get is you'd need to buy one of those at the same time. Another couple of hundy gone there. Please define "any old charger". Link to post Share on other sites
w44vi 17 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I'm also told it is highly recommended you don't use any old charger so the impression I get is you'd need to buy one of those at the same time. Another couple of hundy gone there. Please define "any old charger". Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 The entire story is not being told with that Trademe add. I really would like to know what his warranty reads. While there are some really cool pluses with these batteries, there are some pretty major limitations as well. They have been on the market for around 2yrs now and his price is quite high, if he is buying trade. I would asume he is buying from a retailer because of limited numbers of sales one would expect in NZ. First off, they are not 13V. They are actually 17V. So an Alternator that is able to produce 13.8V or with a special charge reg poking in 14.4V, you are achieving only a 70 to 75% ful charge. The other problem is that they are not good at getting the power out of them. The higher the current draw, the shorter period of time it can safely provide that current for. A 100A batt can produce 50A for 2hrs, 100A for 60 minutes. That would suit most house situations, but in an engine start situation, 1000A can be pulled for only 5sec. Or put more simply, they can not supply the CCA that an FLA battery can. And the heavier the current, the less life they have. High curent discharging can result in a life of only 300 cycles. The correct charger is specialised and ruffly the same price as the Battery. The big pluses are weight savings, and fast charge times. As for non spill, you can also get Gell and AGM batteries that are totaly sealed and safe in that respect. Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Probably... ...but a reality check.... first unless you are a full time live aboard you are not going to cycle your batteries that much. A good quality battery charger connected by shore power will keep most batteries in reasonable condition up till what I call "the shelf life"...that is the inevidable deteriation of the battery over time. Let me give a real life cost example... $120 Oz for a bit over 300 Ah of AGM batteries. (one was new, the others secondhand).. They have been running for three years now. Regardless ..even if they all fall over tmmrw...you can do the maths. AGMs can be mounted in any position and meet all marine specks. Given that I use these for house batteries, there is little risk of danger due to a loss of power. (you do have LED nav lights ?) : ) For the engine battery, if you are not going Cat spec, then a "traction battery" (light truck) in a well sealed battery box will get you by..(so called low maintanence batteries have less chance of spill, but VRLA batteries are better).. This perspective is from a low budget boat owner. If I had a zillion dollars there would be many things that I would buy. I still dont compromise on my safety, and even though my boat isnt Cat 1 certified (I dont race)..it meets most of the standards. To be blunt, I find it $#%^ amazing to see boats with expensive batteries that are held in place by string !! Sure acid in the bilge would be bad...but a battery meeting your head or a window /porthole...some sensitive electronics could well do the rule of threes when things go wrong. As a final point..by far the worst battery instalations in terms of strength are on glass boats.....serious killos tied into pissy pieces of meranti or similar cross floors. Straps that are screwed into 10mm glass ...on 15 plus year old boats. Go the good battery, but make sure is stays where it should be. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Funnily enough I had a very indepth discussion with a battery specialist 2 days ago regarding a potentially large solar/battery installation on a boat (4000+ watt solar array etc,) This dude stood to gain commission on a sale yet he talked me out of lithium due to it being in its formative stages of development, high cost, specialised charging (non standard alternator, regulator etc). Biggest advantages are slightly lower weight but ability to draw down much more power compared with standard lead acid. I trust a guy who will talk you out of a sale that would give him nearly 10X the profit on the batteries. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 It's probably important to understand in this particular situation, that KM (I don't know about L4's needs) is looking at a rather out of left field set of requirements. Small boat, long race, weight saving and safety is a major consideration. So normal arguements of battery differences is not the same in this situation. I can add one more plus and at the same time, negative with Li-ion. The voltage drop due to discharge is not the same as lead-acid. Li batts will maintain a much higher V/I current output till they reach their near flat level, in which they then drop rapidly. The advantage is that you can operate say a radio in an emergency, at full output power till the battery suddenly dies....without warning. A Lead-acid will slowly drop away, allowing you to operate a radio in an increasingly poor capacity, but operating none the less. Link to post Share on other sites
ballystick 72 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 The batteries advertised look to be LiFeYPO4 batteries not the normal Li batteries which I understood were better especially in electric cars when compared to Li batteries and maybe they were used by Waikato Uni for their car(s) I think - I went to a seminar/presentation regarding them by Waikato and there is an even better battery coming that will change the electrical storage scene when developed, but I can't remember it's name. Link to post Share on other sites
ballystick 72 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Well my memory was wrong, these batteries powered their electric car at that time but are not as good as Li Ion batteries, which are sligtly better. I tried to load a graphical comparison of several batteries but is is too large. The best being LiS at that time Link to post Share on other sites
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