idlerboat 116 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Hi all, it has come to my attention that there has been a dangerously large number of fails of bilge pump switches. I would like to open this subject up to anyone who has had problems. I am not directly blaiming a product as such, but have now found both stuck on and stuck off... Both wih a crapy end result. Even more bizare a switch that has reversed... ...I tested it and after fidling it stopped all together. It was not my place to bust it open to see what was going on... My trust factor with these switches long term is now zero. It may well be improper current draw or bad instalation...but regardless, in the circumstances that I have seen and the current draw, it should have not happened... My opinion (so knock me down)...are most of the commercial float switches are crapy..under rated junk.... They dont have the quality contacts that are needed... They are in fact mostly a cheap mockery of a most essential component of a boat... Crap plastic toys !! Expensive crap plastic toys.... Serious ! have a look at what is keeping your boat afloat.. A water tank system or a dunny float is better engerneered than that little piece of plastic... Go : ) Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 A never ending issue for me as well IB. I have tried every kind available here, that I know of anyway and all have some issue. However, it seems the one I have the best run out of is the "Surebail". Although I have had issues with those as well, so they are not perfect. One issue is that Murcury is now no longer allowed to be used in several countries, so that leaves three choices. Ball bearing switch, micro switch or full electronic. The earlier full electronic ones had a problem of melting. It seems they have upgraded the internal swiching trany, but I have not used them enough yet to see if the problem has been fully resolved. The ball bearing type has a problem in that eventually it arcs to the contacts and sticks there. The microswitch has the problem of not handling the current for long term cycling. Which does lead me to say one thing. Ensure the Floatswitch is adiquate for the load it is switching as that will cause them to fail much faster. The bigest issue I have is in the main engine bilge where oily gunk ends up gunging the switches up. I tried the electronic type and found they get too insulated with oil and stop being reliable. I have the typical British engine (perkins) that leaks oil as part of normal operation and the stern gland leaks badly (must fix that one day), so the result is I get a bilge of oily silty gunk. It is amasing how much silt can get in through a leaky gland. Which is why I let it leak so much because the boat used to be in a very silty marina and the gland being too tight cuts out fast and can also damage the shaft. Anyway, back to subject. The Rule switches I have had the worst run from. Their Pumps have been good. TMC pumps have been good as well, but switches no better. So....what I now have. I have three switches. The main switch, slightly higher up and secondary and then a third as a high water alarm. All the other bilges have one main switch and high water alarm and one bilge has the electronic as the main switch. 5 seperate bilges in all and all can eventually drain back to the main engine bilge in a worst case scenario. Although in worst case scenario, I have always wondered if it would be best to let the boat completely go anyway Link to post Share on other sites
too_tall 15 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 If you have any issues with switches not really dealing well with the current being switched, get a decent sized relay and operate it that way. Better still, get 2 switches, one say 4" above the other, and route both to the relay ( make sure they can handle voltage being applied to the output however! ) Simple, safe, reliable. If your worried about the relay, install the second switch on a second relay. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 In regards to oil in the bilge, try these absorbent "towels" that r used in industry for soaking oil up. They absorb oil even if wet from water so I have one floating in the bilge as I usually spill a bit of oil on changing . .work really well for my situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Rats 28 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Ultra bilge pump switches. Having run myriad boats and always cursed float switches and sensors I finally found these and they worked well- simple- no BS- don't know if anyone carries these here in NZ but one of the best in my humble opinion. I had two set up in deep bilge with the higher one kicking in a second pump and turning on a bilge alarm Not cheap but then again how many cheap float switches do you replace before you get one As idler says there is a bit of cheap crap plastic keeping your boat afloat so I prefer to view it as money( a very small percentage) well spent protecting my investment. I am not in any way associated with these guys by the way I simply believe in the product. heres the link: http://www.tefgel.com/contain.php?param=pumpswitch_price Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 How about making your own using pvc pipe, a float and a microswitch well above the swill line? In other words if youve got the space keep the mechanism out of the water. surprisingly this works, bloody cheap to put together only real expense is the microswitch, get the sealed ones from radiospares and run through a relay Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 How about making your own using pvc pipe, a float and a microswitch well above the swill line? In other words if youve got the space keep the mechanism out of the water. surprisingly this works, bloody cheap to put together only real expense is the microswitch, get the sealed ones from radiospares and run through a relay How about being able to buy a fit-for-purpose switch instead? Link to post Share on other sites
Rats 28 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 As motorbike says you could probably build an equivalent using pvc and sensor placed elsewhere. The sensor in the ultra was in the top of the cylinder and resined in and could be completely submerged. It just had a series of small holes around cylinder at base to allow water but no float inhibiting debris into the cylinder. The float travelling up the central post tripped the sensor(electro magnetic?) and turned pump on simple and relatively bullet proof. I have seen systems based on washing machine level sensors also but believe these susceptable to oily water tricking the sensor into "thinking" its submerged. Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 I had to smile when I read the following.... How about making your own using pvc pipe, a float and a microswitch well above the swill line? In other words if youve got the space keep the mechanism out of the water. and..... surprisingly this works, bloody cheap to put together only real expense is the microswitch, get the sealed ones from radiospares and run through a relay Heres one I prepared ealier.... This is one of two that I have on my boat....2.5 years old.. On my previous boat a similar switch I made is still going strong aprox 15 years later. I gave up on the commercial ones all those years ago. The problems I mention are on friends and other local boats. Most their owners dont have the time or ability to make their own... The pvc tube is about 800mm long. The switch is a sealed magnet and reed switch type. The switch runs through a relay. The "plastic "sea saw" gives the nessesary historesis so that the pump dosnt "pulse" in low water levels in a moving boat. The whole lot lifts out for easy cleaning. So ..if I can make a reliable (very !) switch...why cant we buy one ?? Link to post Share on other sites
southernman 73 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 There was a guy in Wellington making a real nice professional version of these used to flog them down by Seaview Marina but they work a treat and no more unreliable float switches. Short answer is fix the problem to start with and have dry bilges. We have one inlet and one underwater outlet on the boat now and the only potential water on board is via the stern gland and the dripless option means now water on board at all now. Also removed the log and depth sounder is housed in it's own watertight bulkhead/housing. I'm looking to use a standpipe for our inlet valve in the near future, how would you do this with the head outlet? Not sure it's possible? Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 How about making your own using pvc pipe, a float and a microswitch well above the swill line? In other words if youve got the space keep the mechanism out of the water. That is exactly what I was thinking of doing. Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Hi wheels...after a lot of experimenting, the setup you see is the one that has worked so well. Its easy to build , and cheap. If you get the basic lay out from my pics.... The float is simply a pvc plumbing threaded end cap---to a male to male thread---to another end cap. A stainless eye screw is screwed into the top with a small pilot hole.. It never leaks !! But I do push the pilot hole size on the small size. If the eye screw starts to bind up...great. Leave it at that. It will be absouloutely water tight and wond come loose. The push rod is simply a piece of stainless welding rod. (309 but no problems with corrosion...way to much oxygen) The rest is obvious in the pics.... Two bits of scrap plastic with the fixed one bolted to the pvc riser tube. The riser tube is cut out to recess the fixed bit so that the moving piece is centered over the tube. The sea saw is about 130mm long. The junction box has the relay in it as well as the connection for manual operation. With the nessesary bits in the workshop, it takes about 20 mins max to build the mechanical side... I cut a small notch in the bottom of the tube and then just let it sit on the bilge floor. The rest is held by a single pipe sadle. A plastic sadle would be better. I allow enough lead length from switch to relay box so I can lift the switch out to clean the bige or whatever. The pvc tube just sits there..it is not clamped in tight. The rest is just a normal relay set up. As I said in my previous post...these switches have never failed. Have never "pulsed"...and the cost is good. The joke is...how the hell do I get some kind of "authority" to reconise that they work...and work well Just as an added thing...because the float is contained in the pvc tube, it dosnt allow bilge solids to stick the float. The "expressed" concirn that some how water could get blocked from getting into the tube has simply not been found in practice. If that is of concern then small holes drilled up the tube would cure that concern. Go well m Link to post Share on other sites
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