johnMi 2 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Have to agree with KM Bull, you have full rights over boats racing, but unfortunately no rights for a non racing boat other than power must give way to sail. I'm not sure what you can do other than be a little more conservative with your start. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I don't think you have any choice but to assume that other water users know their racing rules and COLREGS. Whats the other option? Sail around simply keeping out of anybodys elses way? Sorry but that's gonna end up being an absolute free for all, kind of like rush hour in Beijing. Good luck. I have to say, I understand where Clive and Simon are coming from, its seem that almost every start line has a lower division stragglers hanging around in places they shouldn't be and don't need to be. VHF countdowns to 5 mins would be great but so would basic manners and respect for other sailors.... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Have just finished the Richmond Wednesday race. Was lovely except we nearly killed some ignorant person on a boat called Rainbow. They had, in their ignorance, decided to motor through the Multi start line, yes the small area between the bouy and bridge with 1 minute to go? 2ft at 20knots and no where to go. So how do you propose to stop the general public leaving the busiest marine entrance of the largest marina in the Sth hemisphere from using a public waterway only to find some yacht/s screaming around at high speed that has left it/themselves next to no escape routes. Just keep calling them ignorant for being selfish enough to think the general public can use a public waterway? Please don't put words in my mouth KM, especially not stupid ones. I haven't suggested that anyone shouldn't leave the marina any time they like. I am just suggesting that if they are the one steering the boat they at least open half of one eye. If anyone who is leaving the marina at 17:45hr on a Wednesday, and don't notice 80-100 boats milling around the Harbour bridge and work out that they might be racing or about to soon, they have either just arrived from Mars, or they are sooo stupid that they shouldn't even be allowed in charge of a boat. If they then proceeded to not motor around the line but strait across it and through the start area for the main span, I'm sorry it's ignorant, as is defending it. And Mijonnie, thanks for the insightful words Have to agree with KMBull, you have full rights over boats racing, but unfortunately no rights for a non racing boat other than power must give way to sail. I'm not sure what you can do other than be a little more conservative with your start. FYI just quietly, "motoring through the start line , is under power. KM do you know what a W.U.S is? Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 You're welcome, bull Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 What I find really disappointing about the boats that end up interfering with the starts of others is, that they should all know better and would be really pissed off themselves if they were in the same situation. It's in the rules of sailing and the sailing instruction to stay the f*@k out of the way if it's not your start, the race committee should be the ones protesting these inconsiderate skippers not leaving it to the effected skipper to look like the bad guy. I'm sure this issue is not just occurring with the multihull fleet its just that the difference in closing speeds and maneuverability between div A and B fleets is a lot closer than between the top M division boats and an A div boat. FYI the squadie instructions make it clear that you cannot go between the committee boat and the wall once the first sequence has started Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Oh and the white island start was a complete shambles too, even after the RO specifically asked at the briefing that boats keep clear. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 The starting area is defined as an area bounded by a line 50m to the east and parallel to the starting line, 200m to the west and parallel to the starting line and 50m to the North of a line through Westhaven Buoy in the direction of the southern pier of the main navigation span of the Harbour Bridge. Any idea how far the start line is to the bridge ? ODM to 90deg from bridge= 222.4m give or take Direct west of ODM to bridge= 259.8m give or take Link to post Share on other sites
RushMan 31 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Thanks for that The Discos. There really isn't any room for anyone not involved in the start to lurk in is there. Link to post Share on other sites
RushMan 31 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 FYI the squadie instructions make it clear that you cannot go between the committee boat and the wall once the first sequence has started That seems to be a strange rule considering the committee boat is usually at the eastern end of the wall. It forces every boat leaving the marina to cross the race course in front of those starting. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Or go around the start box to the West Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 The rule is flawed, How do you protest a boat that's not racing, It's pretty difficult. Try it and see the result, I'd be interested in the outcome. When you are sailing a high end race boat like Vodafone you have to be extremely vigilant on all going's on around you. You can get yourself in and out of trouble very quickly as you're aware. But this doesn't involve only High end race boats, all boats should be extremely vigilant, The more experienced you become the more it happens naturally. Try doing Cowes race in an ORMA 60. Having boats hit you when you are on a mooring, blaming you for having a moored there. Then you would be upset. Always going to be inexperienced people, unaware people and idiots, then there is the "things go wrong factor", overwinds, chutes in the piss, etc... The yacht clubs don't own the rights to the water and by making the zone so large just at the entrance makes the easy option to flaunt the rule. The RNZYS has done a correct move by moving the line down the harbor, but they make the line so big it takes a long time to sail around it in the small boats, so you don't. You break the rule because it's unreasonable and unenforceable. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 The thought of putting anything in your mouth, bar maybe a cold beer or rum, is totally abhorrent so don't stress yourself on that point fella. I wasn't suggesting anyone was right or wrong. It was just a laugh at your post and the way it came across. We were also wondering just who you were planning on protesting. All we could come up with was Len Brown. There is more but history has shown going there is pointless so I won't bother. This surprised me though, I would have thought you would have known better 'at 20knots and no where to go'. In a well know tiny spot with the highest concentration of yachts in NZ at the time right on the front door to Westhaven in a boat that is known to intimidate other less race knowledgeable boaters with it's size and ability to cover the ground bloody fast. It's like driving a Mack truck 'n trailer or a F1 in a supermarket carpark. Sure it can be done and done very safely but the driver does obviously have to be more aware of the random old grannies than someone driving a Corolla. At times the truck/F1 driver will have to get out of the way even if technically they don't have to. The post came across as 'f*ck you, get off my harbour', even though I doubt that was the full intent. I don't think you have any choice but to assume that other water users know their racing rules and COLREGS. I work at the basic end of boating most of the day. You obviously don't deal with the people we do as there is zero way you would have said that if you did. I'd lay cold beers on this statement being true 'Easy 25% of boats on NZ waterways have no idea of the maritime rules of the road'. I'd think the % is probably higher, it sure would be in some places. Link to post Share on other sites
tuffyluffy 76 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Ahh, the joys of start-box etiquette. I find screaming “Aluminum” perks a few skippers up and gets me a lot of respect and room. In all seriousness, I find it nonsensical that you would want to be in the start box when it’s not your start. It’s an insurance claim waiting to happen. 3-5 mins is more than enough time to get in there and hustle a spot unless it’s a real drifter of a day Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 FYI the squadie instructions make it clear that you cannot go between the committee boat and the wall once the first sequence has started That seems to be a strange rule considering the committee boat is usually at the eastern end of the wall. It forces every boat leaving the marina to cross the race course in front of those starting. Believe it or not there are two exits to Westhaven!! Link to post Share on other sites
Mothership 6 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 FYI the squadie instructions make it clear that you cannot go between the committee boat and the wall once the first sequence has started That seems to be a strange rule considering the committee boat is usually at the eastern end of the wall. It forces every boat leaving the marina to cross the race course in front of those starting. Believe it or not there are two exits to Westhaven!! For now. Once the cun-cil put a walking bridge over the main entrance, this won't be a problem any longer. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I know it’s a bit hard for you armchair admirals to understand, but if you just close your eyes……….. The word protest can have a number of meanings of course. I did protest under the NZYF race rules actually, against a race boat in the area, and in fact I also found the motoring boat owner responsible and had a word (protest). Nice guy, admits it was a mistake, nuf said. KM glad you had such faith, “thinking I would know better…….”, sorry to shatter your illusions. In fact I would suggest that multi or mono, history tells, if acts are random and unpredictable enough collisions will happen. Sometimes the truck/F1 just cant take enough avoiding action. And there you go putting YOUR stupid words in my mouth again The post came across as 'f*ck you, get off my harbour', even though I doubt that was the full intent. Clearly you have a difficulty with comprehension if you read that into my somewhat firmly voiced safety concerns. And yes I can believe you deal with “people who have no idea” all day, beware contagion. In fact as is obvious there is a real problem trying to start multiple big fleets there under the bridge. RNZYS has moved their starts 3-400m further east for good reason and I am wondering if there is any other safe solution, even if RYC can actually keep the next division out of the start area. It is then tough to position the boat so you can get in to the box, look at the lay lines and be positioned in 5 min? I would be interested in what the other divisions think, but as most of us race both weeks under the different clubs start lines, I would suggest that one is infinitely safer than the other? One good suggestion I heard was that the Buoy and Tower get shifted to the eastern end of the car park. Another 200m would make all the difference, and if they are building a bridge.... even better, move it further east. Link to post Share on other sites
ab1974 1 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Yep, moving the startline further east would make sense. Further from the bridge to allow more room and also and allow boats to come out of the Western Entrance without going straight into the start box! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Happy sailing Bull Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Saturday Night Special Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Bull be very carefull you Don,t own the harbour you have brought a top fuel dragster to the trycycle track and expect everyone else to get out of your way .Do you think the harbour master or your sponsors would be very impresed by your posts or your behaviour ? Link to post Share on other sites
Mothership 6 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Take a step back and get some perspective, people. If anyone else had posted this, the replies would have been very different - tall poppy syndrome strikes yet again in NZ. Bull's concerns were one: that a race boat had decided to motor through the start of another division with 60 seconds to go - who out there is ok with this? Secondly, there were at least half a dozen other boats who weren't starting until later in the start box. Again; everyone ok with this too? Or is it just ok if it's not your start? The situations above are ignorant, and dangerous, no matter what the size of boat - people get injured or killed in collisions involving boats much smaller. Bull's not asking for special consideration, or exception - just that everyone follow the rules. There is much noting - and complaining that our race fleets are getting smaller, and older, and no one can afford to buy the latest/greatest. Someone goes and does that, and now everyone has a problem with it Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.