sealegs 0 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Found this interesting site on the Junk rig. The Advantages Specific to the Junk Rig chapter is very interesting indeed. Your thoughts...? http://kastenmarine.com/junk_rig.htm Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I like them (Annie Hill loves them) but I can't get my head around the issue of chafe (a fully battened sail rubbing against a mast). I know the proponents say it isn't an issue - I guess I'll need to see it to believe it. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Its not just a Junk Rig anymore Sealegs, there's all sorts of interpretations from plain old flat to cambered and split and some that have foil shaped battens. They all have one great feature...a freestanding mast. Link to post Share on other sites
sealegs 0 Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Its not just a Junk Rig anymore Sealegs, there's all sorts of interpretations from plain old flat to cambered and split and some that have foil shaped battens. They all have one great feature...a freestanding mast. a freestanding mast.!! Wow I never even noticed that.So how does that work? Do the sails not put any stress on the mast at all? I dont understand that one! please explain... Link to post Share on other sites
tuffyluffy 76 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Why would you want a junk rig? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Cheaper by far, easier to sail, less maintenance, with a free standing mast the sheet can be released on any point of sail to stop the boat, and did I mention waaay cheaper than what most of us are using. Saw this in BoI at Xmas, pity we didn't go to the same place , would have loved a closer look. Are those cambered spars. Link to post Share on other sites
sealegs 0 Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 So Ogre..... Do the wind in the sails not put any stress on the mast at all? I dont understand that one! I saw that same junk in your pic last xmas but I was going in another direction at a rate of knots so did not want to change course for a closer inspection. "tuffyluffy"]Why would you want a junk rig? I never said I wanted a junk rig.Just curious about it from what Ive read on linked site. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Same stress but instead of distributed through stays it all goes to the step and deck, make the mast strong, make those two elements strong, eliminate a gazillion split pins, clevis pins, turnbuckles .... and you have a cheaper, more reliable result. Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 The Chinese have sailed junk rigged ships from small fishing vessels up to ships, several hundred feet long, while europeans were still in coracles. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Imagine trying to break a stick with just one end held against trying to break a stick with both ends held ( as is a stayed mast). Looks like cambered sails in the pic above. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Was not called "junk" rig for no particular reason. Actually not as simple a rig as some would think.Lots of battens generally 2 sided so requiring fastenings through the sail cloth , heaps of little control lines and oodles of chafe Yup, it might have been state of art technology 5 odd thousand years ago but along with the knife and fork a modern bermudan rig sure takes some beating. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Depends on your criteria. Is a Bermudan rig cheaper? Is a Bermudan easier to sail single handed? Is a Bermudan (and its attendant deck jewellery) easier/cheaper to maintain? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Its not just a Junk Rig anymore Sealegs, there's all sorts of interpretations from plain old flat to cambered and split and some that have foil shaped battens. They all have one great feature...a freestanding mast. a freestanding mast.!! Wow I never even noticed that.So how does that work? Do the sails not put any stress on the mast at all? I dont understand that one! please explain... take a quick squizz at a laser Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Or a freedom 40 Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 The freedoms have a carbon, glass freestanding masts with a wishbone boom arrangement. They also have a lifting centre board. They like the junk rig are very easy to sail with limited effort. Also easy to reef. Friends of mine have a 38 that has done a lot of miles. They do suffer a little in how close to the wind they sail but otherwise make a very versatile cruiser. Another boat I know very well is a newly built plywood, double ended dory, with twin unstayed timber masts and junk rigged, of 34 foot in length (sound familiar Ogre ?) The masts in "cloud chaser" are a work of art. They are hollow, built up of a great many precision cut, tappered pieces of timber, glued with epoxy. Although heavy in themselves, they still work out lighter than an ally rig with spreaders and stays. Cloud chaser has a quite traditional junk rig, hand sewn by the builder/owner. The multiple timber batterns allow the sails to be reefed to each battern, while still keeping full sail shape above. The running rigging lines are quite complicated and need to be set up just right for ease of sail hoist and drop. In cloud chasers case a few batterns got broken in the original sea trials but it now seems to work very well. It suffers slightly in pointing ability compared with a traditional bermudan rig, but to be honest, I have seen many heavy displacement cruisers with worse pointing angles. Where it realy excells is on a broad reach or down wind. This is largely because for a 34 footer, the sail area is huge. With a bit of breaze she goes very well.... As to "cruiseability" cloud chaser has done a lot of miles in her few short years, including a Bass Straight crossing and down to Hobart for the wooden boat festival. With her broad flat hull sections and a lot of form stability, and shallow draught, its hard not to see the potential. The newer styles of junk rig incorperate all sorts of ideas that use the batterns to introduce very accurate sail shapes. Some of these have been able to produce exceptional pointing statistics. The unstayed masts are a nessesity due to the width of sail, and because they usualy use loops (cant remember the proper name) around the mast to attach the sail. (Sort of like old gaffers). Link to post Share on other sites
sealegs 0 Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 So looking at the sail design alone ..would you say the The Maltese Falcon is junk rigged of sorts? (Tech details:Sailing system: 3 self-standing and rotating masts hosting 15 sails for a total sail area of 2,400 square meters (25,791 ft square), handled by software) it seems to fit Ogres description of the key elements of what makes a Junk mast work without stays:see last pic for close up of mast/deck Same stress but instead of distributed through stays it all goes to the step and deck, make the mast strong, make those two elements strong, http://www.zdistrict.com/wp-content/upl ... 1zZ-60.jpg http://www.zdistrict.com/wp-content/upl ... gAZJoC.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _masts.jpg http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attach ... ilview.jpg Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 No , by crude definition the "maltese falcon" is a square rigger. To find out more, I recomend a good yarn called "mines bigger than yours"...which describes the why the what n the crazy money and ego at that level of boat ownership. The unstayed mast does not define the junk rig or square rig so much as the sail type/shape/ and attachement to the mast. Or to put it another way...you could have a bemudan rig on an unstayed mast....(not that , that would be a good idea) Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 What makes you say this Idlerboat? "Or to put it another way...you could have a bemudan rig on an unstayed mast....(not that , that would be a good idea)" I like the idea of a rotating oval shaped free standing mast bermudan rigged. You could have a couple of stays led back to the cockpit that could be loosened when running, tight when beating. Would that not be ok? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Annie Hill wrote a book "Voyaging on a small income" in it she explains the junk rig rather well.Her book has lots of good crusing ideas especialy if the bank balance is not great.She also has a blog , thy googling Annie hill. Cheers Pete Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Didn't she recently convert her Raven to a Junk? Link to post Share on other sites
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