Amusing info

[wheels 543]

Did you know, Mongolia has a Navy. It consists of One Tug Boat. The Tug Boat has Seven Crew and out of that Seven Crew, only One can swim.

[Guest]

Just as good as the Kiwi Navy hey Wheels?

[DrWatson 381]

Switzerland also has a Navy, they tear around lake Geneva protecting switzerland from a French invasion...lol

[wheels 543]

Sounds like bullshit

Yeah you would think so eh. But no, this one is true. In the 13th Century, the Mongolian Navy was the largest in the world. It lost that fleet during two failed invasions of Japan. Since that time, it shrank down to nothing. In the 1930s, the Mongolian Navy was reborn under the auspices of the Soviet Union. It received one boat, the Sukhbaatar, to patrol Lake Hovsgal. The Soviet-made vessel was dragged overland to that lake. The ship was named after Damdiny Sukhbaatar, the Mongolian leader who drove China out in the 1920s. It, and its successor, the Sukhbaatar II, eventually sank. But as of 2001, one vessel remains -- the tugboat Sukhbaatar III. It's manned by seven men, only one of whom knows how to swim. The ship is homeported at Khatgal, and it continues its regular patrols of Lake Hovsgal. But due to financial constraints, the Mongolian government privatized its navy in 1997. So now the Sukhbaatar III supplements its income by hauling freight across the lake.

[erice 732]

when the heavily laden mongol invasion fleet was sailing to japan it was hit by a typhoon and sank

 

the japanese believed that they were protected by god with a "divine wind"

 

or "kami kaze"

 

this was where the kamikaze name came from in WW2 when the military was desperately seeking protection from another invasion fleet

 

which backfired rather badly as such tactics made it much easier to justify the dropping of the bomb

[wheels 543]

which backfired rather badly as such tactics made it much easier to justify the dropping of the bomb

I have just finished reading a book about the History of Japan at war with the US. Interestingly the reasons for going to war grew over several centuries, but the actual main event of Japan entering WW2 started in ruffly the late 1800's. They were snubbed by the "big powers" of the time and those Big Powers were so, because they had land outside of their own countries. Such as France, Russia, America and so on. Japan had it's nose out of joint and wanted to be one of the Big Powers. In the years between the late 1800's and WW2, Japan had invaded Mongolia, Russia and China. As a Land that had little in the way of natural resources, they also had their eyes on Asia for Oil.

Their were several reasons for "dropping the Bomb" such as the fact that Iwo Jima was a really bloody conflict and estimates of huge losses of American troops if the Mainland of Japan had to be attacked didn't go down to well. A further belief was to give Stalin a bit of a "heads up" to what the US was now capable of. At the same time, many in US Politics/Command argued against the need of dropping it, because Japan had pretty much come to the end of it's fighting ability.

But actually one of the main reasons for the dropping of the A Bomb was that they thought Japan may have a mass Suicide. The Japanese belief at the time considered surrender as a terrible shame to ones self, the Persons Family and to the Emperor, who at the time, was considered God. At the time of Japan Surrendering, McArthur had written into the surrender agreement that the Emperor would denounce his Deity. The thought behind dropping the Bomb was that the impact on the Nation would be such that it would simply go into like a "shell shock" and collapse and they may actually be able to prevent such a mass event. Mass Suicide never took place of course, but whether that was down to the bomb or not has been a subject of debate ever since. Personally I think that when it comes to Politics and especially American Politics, there will always be far more reasons with many forever under cover, than a simple explanation like stopping a mass suicide.

[erice 732]

since there is no real thread here to get off

 

if you have any interest in japan pre-war

 

read this book

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chrysa ... _the_Sword

 

and post war

 

this book

 

http://www.amazon.com/Embracing-Defeat- ... 0393320278

 

 

[AJ Oliver 154]

". . . easier to justify the dropping of the bomb."

Respectfully disagree. There was and is no justification.

Ike, Admiral Leahy and many of the nuke scientists were opposed.

Some scientists proposed "demonstration" blasts that would incinerate

an island in Tokyo Bay, or remove the top twenty feet (or so) of Mount Fuji.

They were ignored.

And mass murder as a way of preventing mass suicide? Boy, that's a new one.

As Kiwis well know, there was a racial component to the war with Japan - they

would never have use the A-Bomb in Europe.

This is not to excuse the horrible behavior of the Japanese in Manchuria (not Mongolia),

and elsewhere.

So . . . what to do ?

Join and support your local chapter of Veterans for Peace (or start a Ch. of your own),

and support the Golden Rule Project.

http://www.vfpgoldenruleproject.org/goldenrule.htm

PAX to ya for Christmas and the New Year !!

[wheels 543]

they would never have use the A-Bomb in Europe.

I am not so sure. The Politicians had very little idea of what to expect. They had only detonated one bomb in the desert and that test had nobody and no mock towns standing around it to show the level of destruction. They all knew it would be a loud bang, but very few understood just how loud and I don't believe anyone, including the scientists actually understood the level of Radiation and fall out. So if Japan had not been at war and a Bomb became available during the German conflict, I think they may have dropped something on Berlin. Maybe.

The resulting destruction of the Two Japanese cities were far beyond anyones imagination simply because they never thought of the way the Japanese built their Homes.

And mass murder as a way of preventing mass suicide? Boy, that's a new one.

I am only quoting the book, which is in the Defense Force Library and it has been written by a noted Historian with much of the American Political information sourced from declassified information.

[Atom Ant 0]

It is a part of history that will be dated forever. AJ's question of using murder to prevent suicide is fair. I think Wheels it is rhetorical and wasn't aimed specifically at you to answer, but rather to cause thought.

 

I have always wondered why, if Hiroshima caused such destruction why then was Ngagasaki deemed necessary?

[AJ Oliver 154]

Yup, no offense intended to Mr. Wheels, from whose posts I learn much.

Interestingly, it was not until at least a year after the Pacific War concluded

that the justifications of the nuclear bombing (that we hear today) began to appear.

Truman's press release of Aug 6th, 1945 mentions only pay-back.

I used to teach this stuff . .

I'm sure that if we sat down with sufficient quantities of libation we could thrash it (hopefully not each other!) out.

I just wish that other governments were as wise as Aotearoa's in opposing these weapons.

Season's Greetings to the world's best sailors . .

[Guest]

Dresden

[erice 732]

the past is a foreign country

 

they do things differently

[DrWatson 381]

no nukes needed

 

Tokyo, 9–10 March 1945, +100 000 dead