Fish

Well, apparently that is what Cat 3 was supposed to be.... I always thought it supposed to have 65% left (reduction of 35%). Now we only have to have half left (50%). Personally, I'm thinking if there is such widespread confusion, there is possibly an issue with the documentation...

So Jon, you would know a fair bit about safety and boat racing. When you say 35%, do you mean reduce the luff length by 35%? Angus was telling me today that that rule means reduce the luff length to 35%. Of all the people, including sail makers, I've ever spoken to, I'd never come across that understanding. This is in the context of pin heads and Cat 3, but the same question applies to cat 1 & 2. Angus's example was for Cat 1, and I can kind of understand the need to go to 35% for Cat 1, but it is not going to leave very much area up at all.

I do have a couple of rolls of sticky back onboard, and that is all I would ever use. I've got the needle and palm (like a full sail repair kit) in the shed. It was beyond me why we ever had it on the boat, until I saw the requirement in the Regs. Depth sounders, who thinks these are an essential safety device? With modern chart plotters and knowning exactly where you are at all times, how does a sounder add to safety now? Ask for a friend, who in the past has bitched ang moaned about having to cut a hole in a classic that only draws 1.3m, just so they can comply with the regs.

There in lies the problem. Where do they say "may"? The document says an X denotes a mandatory requirement... Angus said (verbally) *may*. ex Elly, I can't tell if you are being facetious or you are making a legit point?

You can do the Coastal as Cat 3- (minus). That is all the usual Cat 3 stuff, but no liferaft. In return all crew are required to wear LJ's. I tend to race short handed anyway, and always wear an LJ 2 up or less, so this is ideal for me. It is intended to remove barriers to lower key or smaller boats doing the coastal. I've also done the Coastal on A div boats with rugby team sized crew. There is a clearer cut cost benefit for liferafts in those situations. I think it is a good, pragmatic balance.

Someone's arse is covered. Its not mine.

That is the exact sort of stuff I'm talking about. Must be a full moon, we are starting to agree on something. Was you laser flare certified, or just a good working one? I am interested, according to Angus, I can do what is sensible and not what the YNZ Regs say, so may be able to get rid of the pyro's after all...

KM, we have differing views, lets accept that. I think my knowledge of modern flares is fine, I have personally set off a large number. I've no problem you taking flares up the NE coast. But as I said earlier, a big trip for me now is to Kawua, normally sailing between Weiti GH and Rakino - but I'm still compelled to carry flares. I don't see a benefit in that. I'm getting the feeling we are debating apples and oranges.

So I spoke to Angus Willison, got him on the phone first go, so credit there. I am possibly more confused now. He said "Don't worry about what the regulations say, if you have a set up suitable for the type of weather and duration you expect to encounter, you will be fine" Additionally that the regulations have been simplified and made clearer. (allegedly). About the pre-amble, there intention is to ensure that what is on boats is suitable for those situations, and to not blindly comply with the letter of the regulations. The bit I am confused about, is what the regula

Yes, while it is not clear, I am taking that, as the sizes are specified as maximum for each Cat (the requirement denoted by an X), that this preamble is saying you may need to go smaller, it is your job to check that. Meaning the below sizes are the maximum that we think you can use. Think I will follow up with my previous communications to clarify all of this. Having just had a main built, and clarified the requirements with YNZ, the missus has a bee in her bonnet and wants me to push it back to YNZ (don't ask...)

You are spot on the money that a good torch would cover it KM. I think the real issue is the disconnect between the standards and real life, and the cost to a manufacturer of achieving compliance and certification with a standard. I'm sure you can relate with chains and stuff. The cost of getting the certificate adds so much to the cost of the product, that consumer look at what is otherwise just a posh torch, and bulk at the cost. Those costs would not be far off getting an electronic transmitting device with direct link to authorities (i.e. a PLB). If I were going to spend $400 on a las

At least I have achieved something today then You can find the new regs on teh YNZ site, and google found me the old regs quickly. Its working for me, I'm using Chrome. I should add a key point Carpe Diem, after re-reading that pre-amble, its states the sizes are strictly Maximum sizes, which would mean it is up to the sailmaker and designer to confirm if those are appropriate, or if you need to go smaller. So in the context of Cat 3, I don't believe there is any wriggle room for my brand new sail with a max 35% reef.

No, No, I'm getting a sense of de ja vu already. Like we've had this debate before or something. The regulations are what they are - currently a complete shambles, still in draft form (refer the other thread), with major conflicts on requirements. I am agreeing with your point that you should use or consider ALL available forms of communication, which you are putting would mean I should be carrying flares. Fair call. I was just wanting to turn that around and say that a phone is a legit form of communication, esp in Arkles Bay. In my view (and I respect yours and others views on

Thanks for that CD. I had overlooked that pre-amble. That is a substantial shift in intent, tone and language for the "Regulations". It also conflicts with the stated method of reading the regulations. I have been producing standards, specifications and guidelines professionally, and there is a substantial difference in the language used, the intent and the consequent requirement or compulsion to do something. Maybe I could give YNZ a hand to straighten out this document. "Should" and "Consult" (with designers / sailmakers) have substantially different meanings to "shall" and "Mandatory".

The usual BS about flares prompted me to check the 2021 edition of YNZ Safety regulations. Flares are still in there, grrr, BUT: CAT 3 requires the main to be reefed to 50% of luff length. So KM, tell Alan his new sail is a waist of money.... can't do Coastal with it. The regs have "Draft" in water mark all over them... I know YNZ failed to get them out on time, buts its April now. For the 50% rule, refer rule 15.15 (e) on page 35. I note that for CAT 1&2, it says if you can't fit a trisail, you only need a main that reefs to 35%... which is odd, cause I thought yo

You keep on forgetting your phone KM. The number isn't complicated. It starts and ends with a one, and has a one in the middle. Alternatively you can just try *500, and get CG straight away, you know, of you just need a tow or something.

Ermmm, think you need to fact check that. If I wasn't being compelled to carry pyros, do you think I'd spend so much time going on about it on here?

KM, there are many points in your post that simply don't add up. The first being that Suburban Reptile was actually afloat and racing. Surely that is a Suburban Legend? And the wise hansom intelligence and all round fantastic guy... who did you loan it to? Jokes aside, that is one example, where everyone was up and watching fireworks. If I recall your story, it wasn't even dark was it? If you did the same at 3 am on a night that was a bit rainy and windy, how many people would have seen it? In Arkles. Without admitting to anything, (and not in Arkles) I know for a fact you can shoot

Yeah, but KM, if you were sinking in Arkles Bay, you probably would have been able to walk ashore... None of that explains why I should be compelled to carry flares. The flares I saw were on Bastile Day, whilst off the Channel Islands (France). Triangulated to the local port. I've never heard of a flare being used in anger. Best example is yachts offshore, that have activated an EPIRB, rescue vessel is approaching, contact on VHF, so the yacht sets off a flare to get a visual. Great for Cat 1. We could argue for Cat 3, but Cat 4 & 5? Seriously?

We were ventilating the sewers, so most of the methane had dispersed. At least I think so, we didn't have methane meters to check back then. Didn't need them as we weren't doing confined space entries... Like I say, OSH snuck up and tapped me on the shoulder...

I'm more than happy for people to carry these as a personal choice. But I don't think we should be compelled to carry them anymore. That is with respect to the YNZ safety categories. Def not for Cat 4 and 5, I'd argue not for Cat 3, and to be honest I don't care about Cat 1 & 2, because I don't do those. But flares are in rafts that are required for those Cat's anyway. Possibly benefit for Cat 1, but given the overall cost of achieve that, I don't think flares are a big issue there (oh, and all the borders closed, so no Cat 1 sailing happening anyway...) Don't forget, flares are not w

It simply doesn't happen. In reality, you start with the most reliable form of communication first. Typically, and in my personal experience, this is the phone. This is followed closely by a VHF, either mounted (25W, masthead) or handheld, 5W sea-level. If you are really in the sh*t, then a PLB / EPIRB. There is clear examples and reasons why this is best and fastest. Flares are a 19th century form of communication, 1 step above lighting a fire in a bucket. I have seen flares at sea, and it is damn near impossible to get a fix or any useful information of where the distress is, oth

Yeah yeah, currently not sailing out of sight of land, got the flares for a couple of low key cat 4 / 5 races (despite my bluster, I still like to comply with the rules). Its just that the phone works fine everywhere I go, the two HH VHF's kind of clutter up the cockpit, the mounted VHF has enough power to transmit to the moon, and the two PLB's onboard are always close at hand, or strapped to my person. That is on top of the fire extinguishers I've just replaced, the additional fire blankets onboard, the new bilge pump, the new life rings, the special MoB recovery sling I got cause

Oh, oh, can I comment? can I comment? Actually, I might save my energy. I need to do some work so I can pay for the flares I've got that are expiring again next month...

If you have only minor mis-alignment and everything is basically straight, you can use a CentaFlex coupling. Far cheaper than a python drive type arrangement. We put one on, very good at removing vibration and is more forgiving to engine misalignment. The NZ supplier isn't coming up in google searches straight away. If you are interested I can find it, and the tech spec sheets for deflection and size / forces etc. centa_kupplung_cf_m_127_700x700.webp