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Fibre lifelines and Cat 3


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Just thinking through lifeline options and was wondering if anyone had recently been through an inspection. Plan was to used single braid dyneema that is uv coated and as sleeves at major chafe points (stanchions and where headsails skirt) will this comply? Rules are clear as mud. I know KM has written about this a while back but was wondering if the safety inspectors had clarified it since ( I want to use the fine line dyneema braid).

Edited by TazzyDevil
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https://chainsropesandanchors.co.nz/fibre-lifelines-what-to-use   here is the link to KM's think piece.   Fineline and others can and do make specific lifeline braids. Not sure why you would phaf around using a single braid with isolated sleeves. IMHO it would be better with a specific UHMPE double braid with both the cover and core being UHMPE - cover is  probably better with a UHMPE/technora blend. You can then put on specific chafe sleeves on top of this if necesssary.

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Cost and ease of splicing are why I wanted to go the single braid route. Regs don’t specify single or double braid. I know overseas single braid is fine and that’s what my backstay is made out of so hoping it would be fine for lifelines. The local inspector says he thinks so. 
 

it’s pretty easy to lash on a sheath where it goes though staunchions.

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1 2 3 4 5 LIFELINES 17.17 The minimum diameter lifeline wire shall be: X X X R R Yachts under 8.5m (LOA) 3mm Yachts 8.5m to 13m 4mm Yachts over 13m 5mm Wire manufactured with a plastic coating shall not be used. Grade 316 Stainless Wire is recommended – 1x19. Tape unacceptable. If fibre used instead of wire e.g. single braided dyneema, spectra, vectran, dynex or similar, there can be no tolerance for wear. Material must be protected from U.V. and chafe by a sheath. Sheath can be taken as an overbraided core over the main load member of the same material or another type of material. The strength of the fibre must be equal to or greater than that of the appropriate stainless steel wire. The wire shall show no significant signs of corrosion or weathering. When plastic tubing has been used it should be cut at its lowest point to allow any water to drain.

 

Not sure how the above permits a single braid without a sheath?

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Posted (edited)

I think that’s where the inspectors get confused... the single braids which are mentioned in the Regs- have a uv coating. The local inspector said he thought that was sufficient to count as a sheath as long as chafe protection was sorted. But he wouldn’t commit until he saw the lifelines.

 

at half the price of super cable and still loads of strength figure it’s worth exploring.

Edited by TazzyDevil
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On 23/08/2020 at 5:21 PM, TazzyDevil said:

I think that’s where the inspectors get confused... the single braids which are mentioned in the Regs- have a uv coating. The local inspector said he thought that was sufficient to count as a sheath as long as chafe protection was sorted. But he wouldn’t commit until he saw the lifelines.

I think that the spirit of the Regs is that the entire line should have a cover/sheath not just the points which you think might experience chafe.

Thinking back to a few kite drops that haven't quite gone to plan, I know that there is no part of my lifelines that has not had a rope dragged over it during its life.

On 23/08/2020 at 2:02 PM, TazzyDevil said:

Cost and ease of splicing are why I wanted to go the single braid route.

Class 2 core dependant splices are really easy. With 4mm I would probably stitch the cover to the outside rather than trying to tuck it.

Armare do a great lifeline that's YNZ approved. https://chainsropesandanchors.co.nz/5mm-Lumina-lifeline-Super-Cable

It has a dyneema cover so might not be core dependent, thus requiring a core/cover splice to get a close to full strength splice. KM confirmed this is core dependent.

On 23/08/2020 at 7:53 AM, TazzyDevil said:

Plan was to used single braid dyneema that is uv coated and as sleeves at major chafe points (stanchions and where headsails skirt) will this comply?

I queried this with Angus during an inspection, I  was told that the entire line had to be protected.

My plan, when I get to this project, is to get 4 or 5mm single braid dyneema into the dinghy fender covers and cover the exposed single braid with heavy duty heatshrink.  I have seen too many lines dragged over my lifelines to think that even a Dyneema cover would last more than a season.

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The lifelines on Oliver are Dyneema "Supercable" from CRA (via SailIQ). 

They still look great after two years of regular use.  No sign of wear.  Being thin enough to pull through and remove the lifelines to repair stanchions is a bonus too.   

Recommend getting CRA, rigger or splicing specialist to splice at required length.  4mm Supercable is not an easy splice.  

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To comply with YNZ Safety Regs you CAN NOT use a single braid be it made of UHMwPE, Liquid crystal polymer or even Unicorns.

The Safety Reg terminology is due to 'copy n paste' then not checking to localise it i.e some lazy f*ck copied it from a EU site where they refer to 'sheathed ropes' what we here call 'double braid ropes'. The bit Splat highlighted in red is my wording that got put in last edition in an effort to try and make it more understandable.

We've seen some YNZ Inspectors ticking off single braids as OK but they shouldn't be according to YNZ Regs. It is a not a item that needs a judgement call like say a anchoring system where they can be tuned to the boat and in doing some push the Regs a bit or too much, so it's a pretty simple equation, the lines covered comply and if lines aren't covered they don't comply, it is that black and white. But we can use that to our advantage, next time some boat beats ya or is a right dickhead and doesn't have cover lines Protest, it should take the panel less than 1 minute to decide.

Is a single braid OK from a actual in use point of view? Sure is when sized accordingly and the material it's made of is verifiable or you trust who you're shopping with. There are 'dyneemas', 'spectras', 'plasmas' being sold in NZ today that aren't, they are weak sh*t that looks roughly the same. There are some Chineemas being sold, some are OK but some are sh*t.

Would I use a single or double braid when YNZ is irrelevant (or even more so that it currently is ;) ) I'd go Double braid. The core being good sh*t that will be the strength, the cover is protection for that AND a very good wear / damage indicator. Once the cover is seen with wear/damage I'd be looking closer fast.

What does the cover have to be? Polyester, Cotton, Umpy or even the plaited pubic hair of a Great Ape would comply but if you have to have one why not pick a good one.

I fitted Supercable. I was going to use Lumina due to the wanky glow in the dark aspect but it's triple braid and while it complies with the Regs I reckon the Supercable is the better option to due higher strength, the pure dyneema cover and it's cheaper.

We use a lot of Supercable to replace vectran backstays these days, compact, low windage, strength to burn but none of the UV issues that Veteran has.

Finelines Lifeline is just a std dyneema core polyester cover, it's OK and complies with the Regs. Any std fancy core rope complies as long as it is covered.

Supercable/Lumina/Finelines version are a Class 2 ropes i.e core dependent so needs a core to core splice. The Supercable is a very easy to splice rope but when using small ones like 4mm for lifelines it's a fiddly SOB size that can do ya head in sometimes.

Don't forget if your ride is under 8.5mt LOA you can use 3mm, over 13mts LOA you need to use 5mm. Many are doing a size up on the top line for handling and so on, I have done that myself.

Some stanchions are fine for fibre without work but some need a little protection around the holes. We use a 40mm bit of that white hose which is pushed in to the stanchion hole, tacked with silicone. But we have some new grommets due any day which are designed specifically for that purpose, they will allow for the different sized holes better.  

If in doubt just think 'Would I trust that string to hold my bestest mate aboard should they smack into it while having a moment'. If you're thinking 'No' then do you really want to be sailing out in the deep blue with lines you don't trust? If you're not sure ask someone, they aren't called LIFE lines just for shits n giggles.

If you have brought any stanchions off the shelf in the last few years then don't get anal about rope strength as 90% of stanchions I've seen being sold I would trust less than a pissed off Great White shark. How people can sell those utter pieces of weak not fit for purpose sh*t and then sleep at night is beyond me.

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Is a single braid OK from a actual in use point of view? Sure is when sized accordingly and the material it's made of is verifiable or you trust who you're shopping with. There are 'dyneemas', 'spectras', 'plasmas' being sold in NZ today that aren't, they are weak sh*t that looks roughly the same. There are some Chineemas being sold, some are OK but some are sh*t.

Apologies my UHMPE should have been  as per KM  -  UHMwPE  = Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethyelene.   Interesting pre-stretching, heat treatment and solution dye versus dye bath issues also - there is huge variance as to UT strength and longevity - some are simply sh*t being sold as the bees knees.

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