Murky 1 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Jordan had a go at answering a few of these earlier on (first four pages of what has become a long thread): Did you consider running back to Tonga or even more down wind to F1J1? but if we went back to fiji the owner (who was a live aboard so this was his home) had no insurance because it is now hurricane season and they are expecting a big bugger in a couple of weeks. (from page four) Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brucey Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Sorry my bad Missed the middle pages somehow. Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Jordan is out on The Bump now, so let's wait and see what kind of damage he causes enroute to BoI's eh! Go to the poll on will they make it if you want to have some fun! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 What I want to know now is,was the boat recovered?Is it still floating out there?Do people in Fiji go out and hunt for abandoned boats like this?Will some asian fishing boat find it and strip it? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 BREAKING NEWS! WENT FOR A SAIL ON A BENETEAU 37 FROM MOTUORA TO MAHURANGI. i think that was probably one of the scariest moments of my young life Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 BREAKING NEWS! WENT FOR A SAIL ON A BENETEAU 37 FROM MOTUORA TO MAHURANGI. i think that was probably one of the scariest moments of my young life Why? What did you break??? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Sounds like the whole crew couldnt hack it Jumping ship cause you lost the rudder and couldnt steer, Putting lives at risk trying a ship transfer in those conditions What a friggin joke There has to be more to it, Please, someone spare me and post the facts. Someone suggested you might be a man with experience, I doubt that. You have lost sight of the fact that the Master of the stricken vessel is responsible for the safety and welfare of his crew and can not afford the "luxury" of fighting it out to save the ship when help is at hand! The skipper didn't make the right decision, he made the ONLY decision he could. To do anything else would be fool hardy. Of course he could have opted to remain on board alone, his choice but given the options, it was his life at stake so his decision. My concern is about that "life"raft. My own experience during a training session saw out of SIX inflations... I think 2 failed completely and one had the painter break away when they turned the big fans on. I see nothing has changed since then! CHILLING.....! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Sounds like the whole crew couldnt hack it Jumping ship cause you lost the rudder and couldnt steer, Putting lives at risk trying a ship transfer in those conditions What a friggin joke There has to be more to it, Please, someone spare me and post the facts. Someone suggested you might be a man with experience, I doubt that. You have lost sight of the fact that the Master of the stricken vessel is responsible for the safety and welfare of his crew and can not afford the "luxury" of fighting it out to save the ship when help is at hand! The skipper didn't make the right decision, he made the ONLY decision he could. To do anything else would be fool hardy. Of course he could have opted to remain on board alone, his choice but given the options, it was his life at stake so his decision. My concern is about that "life"raft. My own experience during a training session saw out of SIX inflations... I think 2 failed completely and one had the painter break away when they turned the big fans on. I see nothing has changed since then! CHILLING.....! I had a chat with said very skipper the other day and I think Wetdream has it spot on. The dude is no shrinking violet and a bit of a hard doer to say the least. But as any good skipper would or should, he made a call and nothing I heard made me think is wasn't the smartest one for the crew as a whole. Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 322 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 HNY KM Sounds like someone else need rescuing. When will you young guys learn? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ok well that didnt work, can someone please embed this for me Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brucey Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Jordan had a go at answering a few of these earlier on (first four pages of what has become a long thread): Did you consider running back to Tonga or even more down wind to F1J1? but if we went back to fiji the owner (who was a live aboard so this was his home) had no insurance because it is now hurricane season and they are expecting a big bugger in a couple of weeks. (from page four) JH I suggest you stop re opening this thread. It gets my gander up every time. Which ever way you look at it its a major feckup, and as the raft problem highlights you were just luckly someone wasnt hurt or worse. The second most common critical thing that breaks on a boat is the rudder system (after mast). That is why you are clearly required to display a credable alternitive steering system to gain cat 1. Crew Fail! on grounds of either ability or persivereance. And to get off a floating boat at sea anchor, because it was on the nose and we didnt want to go to Fiji because you would have no insurance is nonsensical. ("and they were expecting a big bugger in a couple of weeks" WTF?) Learn and shut up Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 The second most common critical thing that breaks on a boat is the rudder system (after mast). That is why you are clearly required to display a credable alternitive steering system to gain cat 1. Crew Fail! on grounds of either ability or persivereance. What a crock of sh*t. You can get Cat 1 with a unproven set-up, many of which have since been well proven to be a totally useless. Theory is one thing, actually doing it in crap conditions is a totally different one often. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Brucey, no one is making you read it. So don't. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 bit out of line for crew but, f**k off brucey Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 bit out of line for crew but, f**k off brucey Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brucey Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Listen kid, you need to realise that the situation and outcome was very poor at best. Without knowing anything about the problems encountered, just from the outcome. this was an E Fail. Wheals, I have tried to instigate a worthwhile discussion about the experience so we could all learn something. but it has not been forthcoming, don’t worry I will avoid the self serving drivel in the future! JH nice video, looks peachy trades sailing. Without going into the “dock talk” that there has been a previous rudder problem on the boat, identified in the purchase survey but apparently poorly corrected , the only point I make is that this should not be held up as some shinning example of a model response to the situation encountered. That the skipper and crew didn’t /couldn’t sit out the weather pattern at sea anchor, then with some sort of rope bridle setup at least centralise and control the rudder then proceed towards assistance with some form of emergency steering is IMHO a FAIL! And what sort of sh*t was that about not wanting to run towards Fiji because if the owner turned up there during the “Hurricane Season” he’s not insured, being some sort of excuse for climbing off a perfectly good boat? And WTF does “and they are expecting a big bugger” mean? Is this some form of new long range crystal ball weather forecasting term? It wasn’t me who suggested that EPIRBS are beating “Darwins Theory” but it does make you think. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 who in their right mind (well you opbviously cause you are capable of everything) would swim under a boat in 5m seas to tie a rope round a swinging piece of rudder? yes maybe we would have gone back to fiji if we could have but at best we could do about 12m circles. the spinnaker pole theory is sh*t, the drogues and/or warp theory is sh*t (atleast on that boat in those conditions anyway) what were we meant to do? bob around out there for 5 weeks, come up on deck and still be stuck in the middle of the ocean without steering and by then be running out of supplys. yup cause that was a very feesable option. im sure james (proasailor) will join in sooner or later to help shut this armchair critic d*ck up Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Brucey, the decision the skipper made at the time ws the correct one. Even if it was not the kind of decision you and perhaps someone else wopuld have made. It was right for them, because the information known and understood at the time, fitted the Skippers experiance and knowledge oif what he knew his crew could do. And because of that, he made the right decision. Think about it. If they decided to stay, and the weather predicted then arrived and they were all lost at sea, then what kind of comment would people be making then. "Doh!, the idiots were given a chance to get off and turned it down, what a pack of idiots". The thing is, many of these situations are indeed crystal ball gazing and you have to make a decision based on the information and your abilities at the time. You do have a 50/50 chance of weather and sea conditions being different to what is predicted up there. Especially those tropical storms that don't always follow a predictable path and I don't believe we actually know what ended up being the weather in the end do we?? Did the storm arrive in the end?? Plus, the ship was there then. If they kept trying and things got worse and they really needed off, a ship may not be in the area at that point. You should know this Brucey, because it sounds like you have experiance, the Skipper is a manager and it is all about management of the situation, making managment decisions, right or wrong. The skippers and crews that should be critisized in these kind of events, are the ones that do nothing, sit down in the cabin with no plan, leave the decision of rescue till it is too late and then expect to be lifted off a boat in the worst of conditions risking everyones lives. In the end with this situation, the crew is safe, The boat is just a boat and at least insured, so who cares about it's loss. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Wheels - you and I and every other yachty that pays to insure their boat pays the loss that is who - check premises insurance premiums in Chch. If I was an insurer I would be seriously pissed with the attitude towards this incident on display here and would have no problem with lifting premiums a healthy hunk. Note that a lot of ocean capable boats (like big tris) simply cannot get insurance now - because of the risk and their experience. Incidents like this brings that possibility closer for monos, even well founded one so it does matter and it is a sh*t outcome - and may in the future leave ocean sailing to the very rich or those with boats of low value - then you lot will squeel. While having no knowledge of this incident - the boat type is at best suspect. And there seems to have been a great willingness to bail. May have been the right thing for them but I agree with Brucey - clearly an E fail. It might have been a great adventure but it did not read well and the young guy should put it down to experience and work really hard to make sure it never happens again. Have plenty of milers under my belt and touch wood have never been in a situation like this out there - but maybe that is because I only ever go out wide on well prepared boats with experienced crews. This little foray had neither. So yeah I would shut tf up and learn from it - and show a bit more respect to the ocean and by the way to the opinion of others that have a less gung ho attitude to a total cock up. Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I tend to agree with Brucey and Rocket, although, brucey does have a confrontational tone to his posts that could have been moderated slightly for better effect. The biggest issue I see is with the comment about not heading back to Fiji as the owner would have no isurance during hurrican season. It reads as though they may have taken this into account and ruled out trying to return to the islands, which seems odd to say the least. Insurance is harder and harder to come by these days (nigh on impossible for multis), and this is due to the number of, and value of claims. And I don't blame the insuance companies for that. Random Darwin theory based thought just popped into my head (and not supopsed to be a comment on this particular incident here). If I owned an insurance company, I'd only insure ocean going vessels who DID NOT carry EPIRBS. Link to post Share on other sites
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