Guest Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 .... while he can. BA announces the British AC challenge. If there is a guy with intimate knowledge of Oracles foiling cat technology, sailing techniques and quirks its Ainslie. And he can be quite handy on the handle bars to. And he has the design team and a lot of money backing him aready. I would rate them ahead of ETNZ. Another reason for ETNZ to consider their chances. Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I don't agree. Although BA is good, I still see oracle and the rules as the major hurdles. I'd rate the kiwis against anyone if the playing field was level. Which it's not. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 .... while he can. BA announces the British AC challenge. If there is a guy with intimate knowledge of Oracles foiling cat technology, sailing techniques and quirks its Ainslie. And he can be quite handy on the handle bars to. And he has the design team and a lot of money backing him aready. I would rate them ahead of ETNZ. Another reason for ETNZ to consider their chances. How many teams have won this event on their first go? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I don't agree. Although BA is good, I still see oracle and the rules as the major hurdles. I'd rate the kiwis against anyone if the playing field was level. Which it's not. Yacht races are sailed on water IT. Not paper and protocol. The playing field is what it is. And while, initially, I thought it was a tough protocol, I can now see that it ain't that bad. In fact I can see some hope. But... Its time for ETNZ to say no. BA knows Oracle and knows how RC operates. The English will be tough. Very tough to beat. If Dalton and Barker sail and fail again. They will have to live in Botswana to hide from the wrath of many Kiwis. Either Botswana or wherever Mark Hotchin lives these days. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 .... while he can. BA announces the British AC challenge. If there is a guy with intimate knowledge of Oracles foiling cat technology, sailing techniques and quirks its Ainslie. And he can be quite handy on the handle bars to. And he has the design team and a lot of money backing him aready. I would rate them ahead of ETNZ. Another reason for ETNZ to consider their chances. How many teams have won this event on their first go? Blake and Coutts nearly did but they both were partially involved in the NZL20 twin keel/Rod davis/ bowsprit challenge. The first American winner and many subsequent American winners I think. Ernesto berterelli. Larry, off Ernesto? America Cubed did Dennis Conner, sailing under San Diego YC, won it back on his first attempt Quite a few aye! Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Imo, the reason we did not win the last one was a paper issue. The rules. Two things come to mind, the first being oracles changes to their foiling control system. This is rules, as apparently Etnz had considered a similar system, but then decided it would not be legal. As we know, this "slightly Automated" system allowed the use of narrower foils. Oracle asked the jury, who said it was ok, and Etnz were too slow to protest, although it probably would have been allowed. The other thing was the failure to shorten the course for that light weather race. Either thing would have won us the regatta. America's cups are not just won on the water. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Imo, the reason we did not win the last one was a paper issue. The rules. Two things come to mind, the first being oracles changes to their foiling control system. This is rules, as apparently Etnz had considered a similar system, but then decided it would not be legal. As we know, this "slightly Automated" system allowed the use of narrower foils. Oracle asked the jury, who said it was ok, and Etnz were too slow to protest, although it probably would have been allowed. The other thing was the failure to shorten the course for that light weather race. Either thing would have won us the regatta. America's cups are not just won on the water. There is that perspective. But ETNZ had plenty of chances to win it on the water way before Oracle got the foils sorted. Remember Oracle had a -2 deficit, they also lost a trimmer, and they won two crucial race with a slower boat due to poor ETNZ slam dunks and start issues. Also Daltons lay day agreement was a shocker and a critical feck up. Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Can't argue with any of that. Link to post Share on other sites
sailinghigh 0 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Imo, the reason we did not win the last one was a paper issue. The rules. Two things come to mind, the first being oracles changes to their foiling control system. This is rules, as apparently Etnz had considered a similar system, but then decided it would not be legal. As we know, this "slightly Automated" system allowed the use of narrower foils. Oracle asked the jury, who said it was ok, and Etnz were too slow to protest, although it probably would have been allowed. The other thing was the failure to shorten the course for that light weather race. Either thing would have won us the regatta. America's cups are not just won on the water. There is that perspective. But ETNZ had plenty of chances to win it on the water way before Oracle got the foils sorted. Remember Oracle had a -2 deficit, they also lost a trimmer, and they won two crucial race with a slower boat due to poor ETNZ slam dunks and start issues. Also Daltons lay day agreement was a shocker and a critical feck up. AGREE. Disagree. RE BA is not a foiler but the new rules with the now legal storage and elevation flaps may help all including newcomers. BA is a master tactician and ETZ will need the best tactician and strategist the world has plus more. Previous to BA it was Coutts. BA will need to have excellent designers and where are they. They have all been assigned. What won the CUP. THE WEATHER. and the Weather will win the cup again. Shorten the course? WHY NOT lengthen the time allowance for light winds. OR WHY have a time allowance for that matter once the race has officially started? The AC is never a level playing field. Who made the time restriction rule and why did they invoke that rule. Oracle to cover their ASS if the weather became light. Because the NZ public mainly this forum educated the whole world and oracle with their crowing how well ETNZ was doing and David encouraged that. The American websites forums where many are knowable on design and foiling technology where shitting themselves re the fact that ETNZ could foil at such low speeds when ORACLE could not. They determined / guessed / speculated ETNZ was foiling at approx. 11 - 12 knots boat speed whilst it took 14 - 16 knots boat speed for ORACLE to foil and predicted ETNZ would win by a country mile - all races if the wind was light. They predicted ORACLE have the fastest foiling system and ORACLE was designed for optimum winds 16 - 21 knots. Dalton complained early, the month chosen for the final predominately had light winds and the challengers would probably wreck their boats sailing the months they where to sail with. Coutts retaliated by saying the month quite often had strong winds. The wind average indicated light winds more than moderate to strong winds. SH Link to post Share on other sites
sailinghigh 0 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I don't agree. Although BA is good, I still see oracle and the rules as the major hurdles. I'd rate the kiwis against anyone if the playing field was level. Which it's not. Yacht races are sailed on water IT. Not paper and protocol. The playing field is what it is. And while, initially, I thought it was a tough protocol, I can now see that it ain't that bad. In fact I can see some hope. But... Its time for ETNZ to say no. BA knows Oracle and knows how RC operates. The English will be tough. Very tough to beat. If Dalton and Barker sail and fail again. They will have to live in Botswana to hide from the wrath of many Kiwis. Either Botswana or wherever Mark Hotchin lives these days. Talking about time sailor X This will make you happy. Emirates cancels order for 70 Airbus A350 planes Airbus lost a major order on Wednesday when Dubai's Emirates airline cancelled its entire requirement for 70 A350 jets, dealing an unexpected blow to the European plane maker and engine maker Rolls-Royce. Shares in Airbus fell more than 3 percent on the loss of some 9 percent of the order book for its newest passenger jet, which is now only months away from entering service after eight years in development at a cost of some $15 billion. Rumour has it a NO letter is on it' way to DALTON. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 How did the English AC challenge it's billionaire backer announced was going to compete in San Fran go? Opps. Who was going to be the driver, a Ben who?? Opps. If Dalton and Barker sail and fail again. They will have to live in Botswana to hide from the wrath of many Kiwis. 1, ETNZ was 115 odd people, you may have noticed some bumps on the tops of the ETNZ boat, they are called crew. I counted all the way to 5 before I lost count changing feet but I'm damn sure there was that many again. 2, Going by your reckoning those 10's of 1000's of people who turned out to welcome ETNZ home were all angry and pissed off people wanting to hurt 2 of the team. Do you also find it interesting all those pissed off people numbering in the 10's of 1000's were still 10's of 1000's more than turned up to welcome Lazza and his lackies? Mind you I suppose Oracles only home is Lazza back pocket so there would be bugger all room in there after you put in his Diamond encrusted AMEX card and emergency Botox fanny pack Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Cutting through the spin and poetic license knot me..... what about considering the 4,000,000 plus people that are not interested and don't want THEIR money wasted on the AC they are the silent majority that yawn at the waste and are quite vocal at the mo and also at election time Ask labour how that worked for them last election. They brought into it but it did nothing for then Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 To be fair the ROI for the taxpayer was quite exceptional. The profile of NZ on tv during the AC was huge and you couldn't buy tourism marketing for 10x what the NZ taxpayer spent. So the NZ taxpayer got and will get their money back in spades. Being in the challenger series is good for sponsors, not so good if you are a defender as the media airtime is limited. The RWC cost the NZ taxpayer in excess of 50 mil and that was AFTER taking the tourism promotional value into account. It simply cost us a crap load of $ to host the event. So back to the more important aspect of the vent - the sailing. Don't throw Dalts out, let him apply for the job. Don't throw Barker out, let him fight for the skippers position against the young guns TNZ has taken on board. FWIW, I haven't heard a single suggestion that Barker is the skipper as of right. He has only ever said he wants to be involved. He has alot to offer, but don't take it as given that he is the skipper. Bermuda potentially a location? What's with that? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Fair comment Atom but until the Govt takes 40 million and invests in marketing NZ in other "nautical/marine" ways we will never know how good ETNZ's value is. After all 40million ( plus all the cost of sending every useless Govt hanger on to SF)could run some mighty regattas / promo,s parties down at the waterfront and bringmany many sailors, tourists, teams and TV crews right here to NZ. I tgink ETNZ helped promote San Fran as much as NZ $44 million, used wisely, could do more firvNZ and NZ sailing than ETNZ has or could do. As for the thugby world cup... well thank god that stupid 1 billion dollar waterfront stadium was not built. What a white elephant that would be now. Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,590 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Should have held it at Albany and spent the money on a train from the city. And now we would have something of value. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Should have held it at Albany and spent the money on a train from the city. And now we would have something of value. And probably some change spare too. Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Agreed, Mallard stadium would have been a lame duck. Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 322 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Agreed, Mallard stadium would have been a lame duck. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Agreed, Mallard stadium would have been a lame duck. We all know he is a bit quackers. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Fair comment Atom but until the Govt takes 40 million and invests in marketing NZ in other "nautical/marine" ways we will never know how good ETNZ's value is. After all 40million ( plus all the cost of sending every useless Govt hanger on to SF)could run some mighty regattas / promo,s parties down at the waterfront and bringmany many sailors, tourists, teams and TV crews right here to NZ. I tgink ETNZ helped promote San Fran as much as NZ $44 million, used wisely, could do more firvNZ and NZ sailing than ETNZ has or could do. As for the thugby world cup... well thank god that stupid 1 billion dollar waterfront stadium was not built. What a white elephant that would be now. They promoted a non NZ airline, Coffee, and Vodka. Just saying New Zealand is not a promotion, does not inspire people and does not motivate people to travel. How many scenery shots from NZ did the ETNZ - The official AC cup Web site - and during the races - show. The gov.t should insist if they are going to fund that there entry be conditional with ggyc ac ORGANISERS that TV viewing time at 60 minutes be shown during the regatta races plus 10 NZ Tourism 30 minutes Videos on NZ on the U tube site. They did a coffee video but no NZ video. WHY THE Gov't and Tourism NZ got hood winked and treated with contempt. They are considering. Vote with the poll. http://crew.org.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24504 Link to post Share on other sites
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