Wha's your level of interest

[Clipper 344]

But don't forget, the AC never has been, and never will (hopefully) be about the racing.

You are kidding, right?

 

Otherwise I have been watching a different AC to you.

 

Not kidding, but perhaps my ponit was poorly worded. As a result of the designs developing within a rule, the boats get closer and closer, and close racing results. but this is not an aim, just a consequence. If close racing were the aim, the boats would be one design. Which would also be bad for the AC. the rules are there to avoid DOG matches, but every designer and sailor in the cup dreams of having a boat that is far superior to the opposition, not about going out there and proving they are the best sailors.

 

The AC has always been about design, not close racing

[Murky 1]

Yeah nah fair enough Clipper, it was actually Benny's reply after yours that illustrated that two people can watch the same event and be getting something totally different out of it.

 

I still get a kick out of the close cross/bouncing the other boat/squeezing enough out of a tiny windshift/recovering from gear failure stuff and going back to epic events like Australia II coming back from the grave, 55 (or whatever it was) consecutive tacks on KZ7 against Dennis Conner etc. But I can see that other people are watching it for different reasons and to be honest, I would find any of the random events on the match-racing circuit that pop up on Sky from time to time just as fulfilling, so each to their own.

[benny14 6]

Yeah nah fair enough Clipper, it was actually Benny's reply after yours that illustrated that two people can watch the same event and be getting something totally different out of it.

 

I still get a kick out of the close cross/bouncing the other boat/squeezing enough out of a tiny windshift/recovering from gear failure stuff and going back to epic events like Australia II coming back from the grave, 55 (or whatever it was) consecutive tacks on KZ7 against Dennis Conner etc. But I can see that other people are watching it for different reasons and to be honest, I would find any of the random events on the match-racing circuit that pop up on Sky from time to time just as fulfilling, so each to their own.

 

Don't get me wrong Murky, so do I, but I think the AC has gone past that now, has been for a few years, and I really do enjoy seeing how much the design aspect makes a difference. I can sit and watch any random sailing event on the box too and it's exciting, no matter what the context. Would love to see some close sailing in these machines so hope it happens! Will test crew work if they had to tack these things 55 times up the first beat!!

[Guest]

I remember going to an AB's test in Christchurch and I was amazed at how quiet the crowd was. I decided that Cantabrians were very astute and analytical about rugby and the spectacle was more about the game than the result or national pride or even a night out. Every time I compete and every time I watch the big boys sailing I'm much the same. I'm almost desperate to glean as much information out of the event as possible. Nobody stops learning in this game. While the technology of wings is exciting and interesting, as much as it might be in F1, there's nothing in it for me. Whatever I learn, I can't apply. I don't want a multihull any more than I want a bach at a lake. They just don't appeal. So I'm left with the spectacle, reduced to Rangi public status which is a little unfair to such a big fan of yachting. Oh yes, we'll still be glued to it but it won't be the same.

[Guest]

Interesting to see the 2 angles coming thru in the chatting. The die hard multi fans pumping up the boats and the rest more looking at the racing.

 

But don't forget, the AC never has been, and never will (hopefully) be about the racing.

Its aboutt he fastest boat, the best design. Always has been, always will be. I'm pretty sure the fastest boat always wins out in the end.

I believe the multis will actually go a little way to evening out some fo the differences, as big balls can overcome small design advantages...

 

I don't disagree that much with your comments. If it was all about the racing we would have more of it and we don't. I think 'evening out' isn't that boat specific really. We see tight and big gapped racing in multi and monos. Seen it a lot in AC monos and the only 2 AC's to feature multis couldn't be called 'tight'. Mind you one was racing a mono and the other was more exercises in technology, that no one really seemed to know if they would hang together, so knot unexpected I'd say.

 

I'd be thinking a AC as proposed has an equal chance of having tight and big gap races, possible maybe more than monos due to the nature of the beasts and the 'newness' of the actual boats proposed. The 1st one could easily have massive gaps or maybe none at all but as time ticks over any gaps, if indeed there are any, should close up. I see it as a very much wait and actually see really. The 1st AC as proposed will be quite enlightening as to just how close each team will be. To say there will be tight racing or even no tight racing at this early stage is just impossible to say, we and even the teams just don't know. But if you had to call it one way or the other I do think the possibility of big gaps in the next proposed Ac is large. We are talking a big learning curve for 98% of those involved so it would be a bit unrealistic to think every team will arrive with a top end speed boat. And as we all know a 1% speed difference in a 70ft cat is a hell of a lot more when measuring in knots thru the water than it is in a mono.

 

My comment quoted was more about how there seems to be 2 'groups' if you like and their differing way of looking at the news. It's knot good or bad, just interesting.

[Clipper 344]

Agree with you KM. High chance of a walkover, or close racing.

 

How dull are we? has anyone seen the mess over at SA in the AC forum. Some funny sh*t there.

[Guest Brucey]

Yeah nah fair enough Clipper, it was actually Benny's reply after yours that illustrated that two people can watch the same event and be getting something totally different out of it.

 

I still get a kick out of the close cross/bouncing the other boat/squeezing enough out of a tiny windshift/recovering from gear failure stuff and going back to epic events like Australia II coming back from the grave, 55 (or whatever it was) consecutive tacks on KZ7 against Dennis Conner etc. But I can see that other people are watching it for different reasons and to be honest, I would find any of the random events on the match-racing circuit that pop up on Sky from time to time just as fulfilling, so each to their own.

 

Not sure, did I miss something, do the new regs outlaw close cross/ bouncing in these cats? and are you not allowed to squeeze enough out of a tiny windshift to make a difference? And are cats immune from gear failures?

 

Will not a 55 tack duel be allowed in these things, have the rules of match racing been rewritten saying "there will be no close quarters engagement in multihulls?

 

While it will be a learning curve, when you get the best in the world racing hard in these things, chucking them around, parking them pre start, then accelerating in 20 secs up to full pace of 20knots hard on, it will be amazing. The fact that AC 33 was a drag race was only because one knew they were heaps faster and just kept out of trouble and let the speed do the rest. And of course after spending the thick end of $100m on lawyers and being called a cheeting c*#t, Larry just wanted to show EB and BB what dickheads they were, not slow down and make a match of it. Really, with the LAC having had solid wings for 20 years, they must have been on another planet to thing a soft sail had any hope.

 

KM, not sure about your Rangi’s V8 v F1 being right, if you look at the class which is seeing the activity, growth and youthful exuberance it is already the multis, and Joe punter is going to find these more of a spectacle that Version5 boats ever were. V5 was most interesting for those who understand the nuances of match racing, and for the rest it was just boats going around a course with the distance differential winding up or down but the lead rarely changing.

 

“Interesting to see the 2 angles coming thru in the chatting. The die hard multi fans pumping up the boats and the rest more looking at the racing.” KM or maybe it is in fact die hard monosluggers and the die hard multishitters at opposite ends with Rangi in the middle just keen to see some racing. And if RC gets this right there will be some great racing to be had and seen and that can only be good for our sport! When you have even boat speeds and 15-20 knots of air it will be awesome to watch.

 

Multis is where some of our most active and keen are throwing their energy’s, so this will become the future whether u like it or not I suspect, a little like the IOR fraternity felt when those shits Farr, Whiting and Ross turned up with those oversized dinghies on the start line in the 70’s, they got over it.

[Guest]

Agree with you KM. High chance of a walkover, or close racing.

 

How dull are we? has anyone seen the mess over at SA in the AC forum. Some funny sh*t there.

 

Had I look, I hardly ever do. Bunch of sepos competing to be the loudest ahole and never taking anyone elses point of view. I'd rather be dull.

[Battleship 100]

So let's say you're a motorcycle guy... You ride a bike, you watch MotoGP... then someone says, hey we can get faster lap times cheaper with cars! Is it OK to run next season's MotoGP in cars now? I'm gonna say no.

 

So ya, I'm old... America's Cup is for mono's... Little America's cup is for multi's. From that alone, the boat decision for the next AC kills it for me. I've sailed monohulls all my life and AC was always the pinnacle of the sport, but the sport was boats I understand, not multi's.

 

IMHO they've changed sports. Looking forward to the next VOR... bye!

 

This quote from SA sort of sums it up for me, they have changed the game and although i'm sure they will be amazing machines and very fast it's just not quite the same for me. Larry and Rus are trying to appeal to joe public but in doing so are alienating the existing fans. I don't expect to see close racing but hope I'm wrong. I guess time will tell.

[Clipper 344]

I see as much sense in that quote as this one i.e. none. Different sports? WTF?

Fun reading though

 

So the America's Cup is dead as far as history goes. It has been converted to " The Big Little AC " and all the SA's on Hobie Cats are thrilled as they now feel they are at the top of the heap. Well it is a heap alright. A heap of dung with no provenance whatsoever. Queen Victoria would say, not who is second, but rather, what kind of crap is that pretending to be an ocean racing boat? Where is the accommodation? Where are the big waves? Why can't multi hull guys just go get their own Cup ie create a new one, and leave history alone. The Cup died with the last multi series. It should have been banned from the get go, but the NYYC went limpus dickus and let it be taken away without a whimper. Enjoy drag racing you multi freaks. Enjoy interminable delays because there is wind and waves. Enjoy a joke which will not attract the public. At least in mono's the public could pretend race and enjoy a cottage life with their kids. Multis on the beach are for kids and fun but they are not multi use boats for families. At least in golf you can play the same courses as the pro's. No longer in sailing. Why can't these multitards not realize there is more to sailing than just flat out speed. After the next cup it will be in hydropters (sic?) and then Russian surface airplanes that glide 2 feet off the water. And then why not helicopters that can land on water? Where will it end? Hopefully NYYC will come out with a " continuation" cup for those with education and an historical memory.

[Guest]

KM, not sure about your Rangi’s V8 v F1 being right, if you look at the class which is seeing the activity, growth and youthful exuberance it is already the multis, and Joe punter is going to find these more of a spectacle that Version5 boats ever were. V5 was most interesting for those who understand the nuances of match racing, and for the rest it was just boats going around a course with the distance differential winding up or down but the lead rarely changing.

Sorry to disagree but Rangi Public do knot understand feck all about yacht racing especially the nuances for match racing, that is the realm of yacthies only and even then knot all of those. Get 2 big boats sides by side slugging it out and if the attached commentary is fired up Pete MonCommentary style, Rangi Public will get excited. No commentary and most will look with some amusement/interest and something a bit out of the usual for them but shortly after turn off as they have zero idea what's going on. Whether the boats are mono or multis will have little difference. Just like me and Aussie Rules, it looks interesting and I try to watch it but as I have no idea what's happening that interest quickly fades..... channel changed.

 

“Interesting to see the 2 angles coming thru in the chatting. The die hard multi fans pumping up the boats and the rest more looking at the racing.” KM or maybe it is in fact die hard monosluggers and the die hard multishitters at opposite ends with Rangi in the middle just keen to see some racing. And if RC gets this right there will be some great racing to be had and seen and that can only be good for our sport! When you have even boat speeds and 15-20 knots of air it will be awesome to watch.

I think there are a lot less diehards at either end of the spectrum that many think. If anything the multi dudes are more boat orientated so far but as they seem to pretty much ignore the fact also to a boat all the sexist ocean racers are multis, there is a thing called the Little AC in state of the art winged Cats, The Ishares Cup with multis racing right in the spectators face and a few things, so I suppose they can get excited about bigger ones racing off the beach even if the proposed AC isn't that different than what is already currently available.

 

I think the excited nature of some multi dudes is very understandable and knot a bad thing really. But I'd also suggest the 'die hard monosluggers bitching' is being blown totally out of proportion. Sure some will but I'd suggest that is possibly a lot more related to the racing angle than the boat choice as such. If the AC does work well I'm sure that thinking will change, it just needs to be proved the big multis can produce exciting racing rather than just go around a course very quickly. Personally I think they can, maybe knot Multi AC V1 or maybe even V2 but the boats will even up over time and with that the tightness of the racing.

 

This is quite a seismic shift for the AC in many regards so time will be needed to sort it all out, it's just the way life works. I think anyone of any persuasion who thinks we'll get boats racing a coat of paint thickness apart in the next AC is a little deluded. We very well may but I'd think if we do it'll be more by good luck than good management.

 

Speed is totally irrelevant..... that's unless you are suggesting the multi brigade are incapable of producing boats of similar speeds. 2 boats or any size of any number of hulls sailing side by side on TV do knot show 'speed'. In most of the AC coverage we have had the monos could have been doing 1 or 50kts and you'd never be able to tell... unless you are a yachtie and know the signs of speed. The same will apply to the multi's. In the last AC we yacthies knew the boats were way fast but very rarely did the TV show that. If you are on the beach during the racing that would be a lot different.

 

Multis is where some of our most active and keen are throwing their energy’s, so this will become the future whether u like it or not I suspect

Knot if they don't stop the shitfighting about air drafts, crew weights, how evil monos are and continually trying to reinvent the wheel

[Guest]

The comment from Farrari that it will be like watching a Formula One race with only two competitors, brings up the point, if the prestarts are going to be as boring as predicted perhaps they should reintroduce fleet racing. After all that is what America faced at Cowes. I reckon a fleet of big multis would be really exciting to watch.

[Guest]

Good Call Fossil.

[Guest]

I agree too and that brings us back to why they're doing it. Because they think it will be more exciting to watch. For me, it was never about that. It was more for professional interest for want of a better term. Once upon a time these sorts of decisions disregarded tv altogether and the sport was more pure as a result.

[wal 27]

Can't see fleet racing - puts the defender at too much of a disadvantage

[Guest]

Once upon a time these sorts of decisions disregarded tv altogether and the sport was more pure as a result.

 

Once apon a time is long dead. Today the mantra is 'maximise the money honey' and I'd suggest, which isn't hard as that is what Russ has said, the current goings on are to do exactly that. They want the public to pay for their pissing around al la F1.

 

I ain't paying* squat to see 2 boats go fast, I can do that free any day. I'd seriously consider paying to see 2 teams of yachters go hard out head to head in a very tactical battle a coat of paint or 2 apart though as that's knot as easily seen these days. And I don't care what boats they use or at what speed they do it all at, that is totally irrelevant to a good yacht race.

 

* - the word is TV rights will be sold so in NZ that means you'll have to watch it on Sky.

[Atom Ant 0]

so in NZ that means you'll have to watch it on Sky.

So that means I'm comin to your place to watch it KM!

[Guest]

I was thinking I need to get my yacht finished so I can head up to San Fran.

By the time it finally rolls around and Team Camper Emirates Toyota are kicking arse again, we will probably be kicking ourselves for not being there.

Telly sucks, you gotta be able to get mud flicked in your eye!

[Guest]

Sky free zone here babe. I get movies long before they hit Sky, often before they even hit the theatres. That's about all there that interests me really.

 

D1 is having her Fashion Week show (the next Miss Prada??, you saw it here 1st ) in 1.5hrs so I'm home alone, I don't do fashion in any form. Got Gin Wigmore pumping at huge decibels right now. Great quirky voice, I do like it

[Guest]

so in NZ that means you'll have to watch it on Sky.

So that means I'm comin to your place to watch it KM!

Me too

 

(BTW - still haven't heard from sky since I told them not to bother calling as my cousin had hooked me up to sky and it didn't cost a thing).