Sydney Hobart

[Atom Ant 0]

What? You think that rules don't apply to all contestants? Why bother having them then?

[Fish 0]

What? You think that rules don't apply to all contestants? Why bother having them then?

 

Well I wouldn't know what a protest is, cause no one ever bothers protesting obvious transgressions in NZ

 

My point is directed more at the number of rules, the type and complexity. Complying with the rules is becoming as great a challange as sailing the race itself.

 

I had some vague idea, not too long ago a yacht race had 'rules' along the lines of, race from A to B, don't hit anyone and don't use your engine, otherwise go for it.

 

Now you have to report at the correct time, at the correct place, with the correct information, while transimmitting from your automatic GPS tracker anyway, but don't forget to use the HF, instead of the VHF, or god forbid just the telephone

 

Anyway AA, this will just be a conspiracy to get more media coverage, 'Five times Line Honours champ disqualfied for getting radios mixed up'

 

Bet they where tweating all along as well...

 

At least its something mildly interesting coming out of the race...

[Atom Ant 0]

My point is directed more at the number of rules, the type and complexity. Complying with the rules is becoming as great a challange as sailing the race itself.

Now I might agree with you there Fish. There are so many rules these days - you can thank lawyers for that.

[rigger 47]

From what I understand of the rules the issue relating to a functioning HF radio is a safety related rule that came out of the inquest after the 98 race.

I have read that a couple of yachts retired from this years race as they could not comply with the rule relating to a functioning HF radio.

 

Would you be happy retiring from a race because you could not comply with the rules and then see someone get a prize when they should have retired as they could not comply with the rules.

 

Personally if they can prove a functioning HF and they complied with the rules then all good, but if they could not comply with the rules and continued racing and claim to win the race then I believe that it is called cheating when you break the rules, and possibly called corruption when the rules are ignored by the people administering them.

 

Be interesting to see the decision from the jury and the proof that there was a functioning HF radio.

[Atom Ant 0]

I'm with you Rigger, everyone who entered the race did so knowing the rules. So I don't even begin to understand any complaint, on here or from contestants, about having to comply with them. If it's too hard, then don't enter - it really is that simple.

 

Of course Squid would argue - and I'd agree with him - that rules don't make people safe, only seamanship and well found boats and preparation does. But in a race there has to be rules. The biggest issue with rules is that no matter what you do - there's always someone who has a better idea.

 

I guess Rigger if, they did call and another boat heard them, would it be enough? Or do the rules stipulate that they have to be acknowledged? I dunno, just speculating.

[Guest]

As AA says, the organising authority can introduce any rules they want, we can choose to race or not race. However CYCA (and NZ Clubs could take notice) need to be aware that eventually there won't be much of a fleet.

 

As with Vodafone - have another race that starts Pittwater at the same time, invite multis and have a double handed division (SY-H have minimum 6 crew), and anything else the sailors want, run it cheap (I did offer to run the start for an airfare and a couple of rums) and see how many turn up.

[Guest]

WHat about 20% retirement rate - is that acceptable?

[Fish 0]

Several boats pulled out with engine trouble - in a yacht race, which confused the hell out of me, including boats that don't use the hydraulics of a 20T digger just to sail

 

The NoR states at each radio sched the boat must report a list of things including that their engine and batteries are opperating correctly, so I can only assume these boats are pulling out, not because they can't sail without an engine, but becuase they don't comply with the rules and are therefore obliged to retire.

 

Like I said before, complying with the rules is becoming a greater challenge than sailing the race itself.

 

That said, if you are going to have so many rules you sure as hell need to apply them evenly, so yes if others have withdrawn for not having a working HF set then yes protest the winner. I would like to know the details though, was the HF set operating and just not heard, too much radio traffic, or was it not working?

[Guest]

I read somewhere that when Wild Oats made their report over the phone prior to entering Bass Strait, that they reported their HF Radio was caput. At that point they were instructed not to enter the strait, but they carried on anyway.

[Guest]

That would be interesting.

[Crocket 12]

Havn't read the rules and don't intend to. But my take on it is that you must have all safety systems operational and declare as such before you pass the line of Green Cape. If you can't use your radio and must phone in, I suppose you've just admitted that all your systems are not working. Have a look at the reitirements and other boats have pulled out because of radio problems. Their story is that they radioed in and didn't hear a reply. I guess the aguement is, was the radio working or not. If it wasn't they're out - simple.

[Guest]

The more I think about it , the more I like the idea of an "alternative race". Rules could be along the lines of the Jester Challenge - Safety is the responsibility of the skipper - see you in Hobart.

All welcome, might have to get the Data Lord to do the handicapping.

[markm 30]

I thought any boat crossing Bass Strait with a disfunctional radio got eaten by marauding sunfish.

[Guest]

Monsters be here

[Guest]

And now the protests have been dismissed, I guess if you have a dumb rule then you are going to look silly if you enforce it and sillier if you don't.

[Guest Saturday Night Special]

one might ask wo's pocket Oatleys been pissing in here rules are rules .

 

but they don;t seem to apply anywhere I brought several points of interest to the attention of the head safety officer and Yacht inspectors here in NZ about some issues with boats not conformiing when inspected and was told that you have to protest those boats .I pointed out that if they dont conform then they should not have a category certificate and the yacht inspectors were not doing their job the next action was for said head of Yacht inspectors to ring my uncle ( who is a well esrtablished yacht inspector )and for him to have a chat with me as I dont seem to understand according to said Head of such matters .I must be a nuaghty little boy who dare's question the great one

 

Rules Are Rules If you dont conform you are out End of story.

[Guest]

The sailors on the yachts that retired because they did not comply with the safety rules at the time they needed to make the HF call before entering Bass Strait will be rightfully pissed off right now.

Some were probably happy to have an excuse to pull the pin, but that's not the point.

2 sets of rules.

[Fish 0]

I read somewhere that when Wild Oats made their report over the phone prior to entering Bass Strait, that they reported their HF Radio was caput. At that point they were instructed not to enter the strait, but they carried on anyway.

 

Wouldn't that instruction contravene rule 1, skippers decision to race?

 

I'll bet you WO had a very expensive laywer, or what do you call them, a Queens Council, in for that wee protest

[Battleship 100]

The problem with a Jester like race in Bass Straight is that people can and do Die, even in well found Vessels such asthe Winston Churchill in 1998. There would be some mighty unhappy authorities after an event like that so the organisers have to show they are taking every precaution.

 

Anyway this peice appeared on Sailworld.

 

"To win the Hobart – first you have to ....

 

Get to Green Cape with Life Raft, Motor, Comms and Crew in good order.

 

During the aftermath of the 1998 Sydney Hobart race it emerged that a number of boats sailed into Bass Strait blissfully unaware of the 80-90 knot weather bomb ahead, because they had lost radio communications.

 

From 1999 onwards there has been a Mandatory requirement for a Green Cape declaration, that the vessel had life rafts, engines, HF radio and crew in good condition, to either Eden base or the Radio Relay vessel. Reports to Eden could be made during a sked on another radio frequency.

 

In 2001 the Volvo 60 Tyco was disqualified for reporting seven minutes late and in the years since many boats have retired on the south coast of NSW knowing they would be unable to comply.

 

The 44.1A clauses effectively mean that a vessel must remain north of 37 34 (Gabo Island) whilst repairing engines, radio etc. Having lost a life raft overboard in heavy seas, Titania of Cowes went to Eden during Monday night to drop off five crew so she was able to make her declaration.

 

We await the International Jury's determinations with interest.

 

Now the focus moves further back into the fleet, with divisional handicap situations looking very interesting."

[Guest]

The 44.1A clauses effectively mean that a vessel must remain north of 37 34 (Gabo Island) whilst repairing engines, radio etc. Having lost a life raft overboard in heavy seas, Titania of Cowes went to Eden during Monday night to drop off five crew so she was able to make her declaration.

[/i]

 

Rule 47.2

"No person on board shall intentionally leave, except when ill or injured, or to help a person or vessel in danger, or to swim. A person leaving the boat by accident or to swim shall be back on board before the boat continues in the race."

 

I don't think the fact that other boats retired makes it unfair that the protest agaisnt WO was tossed. Part of the protest procedure is the right to defend your actions, which is what they successfully did.

Another boat that CHOSE to retire can't turn around and say "thats not fair" as it was their own choice to pull out. On the other hand, if they were instructed to pull out it could be an improper action by the committee? (Rules 4 and 62)

I believe the most the committee can do is advise you that they will protest, they can't tell you to retire as that is your decision alone.

 

From the sound of it, WO was told "don't enter BS if your Radio don't work." WO fixed radio, checked it but couldn't get hold of the Committee on HF, so phoned in again and reported it working. They then provided proof of the Radio check to the PC who tossed the protest.